Re-Introduction to Jamal Branch

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 12:10:51 PM

Quote from: Foad on December 10, 2012, 10:09:22 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 10:01:27 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 10, 2012, 08:21:55 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 09, 2012, 11:56:41 PM

Id LOVE a steady 10 pt 6 ast season. I do think he will be more of a scorer than some might think.

Peyton Siva is averaging 11 points and 6 assists a game this year. He's a senior on the 5th ranked team in the country and was voted preseason Player of the Year by the BE coaches. So yeah, 10 and 6 would be the balls. being something of a pessimist I don't know that I'd count on Branch to equal the statistics of the BE POTY coming right off the shelf vs St Francis but if he's not playing at that level by say the last week in December I'm definitely going to start dissecting his body language during time outs because I think he might be considering a transfer.

Yea im sure those big east coaches pictured him tearing it up to the tune of 11 and 6 while being out played by his backcourt mate. So foad tell me do you really think 10 and 6 is super super duper impressive and completely unreasonable?

Jonny Flynn played two years and averaged 15 points and 6 assists on the way to becoming the sixth pick in the NBA draft. So yeah, I think it's unreasonable that you'd be satisfied if someone you never saw play came out of the gate averaging a couple of points less than that.

Yea cause we all know averaging 15 pts and averaging 10 are pretty much the same, right?

Pretty much, yeah. It's a difference of two made baskets in 40 minutes. It's insignificant.

Ten points and 6 assists is a minimum of 22 points generated. Harrison, by far the best player on SJ,  averages 20 points and 2 assists, that's ~ 24 points. If all you're saying is that is Branch generates as many points as the best player on the team that would make you feel happy then I'm sorry to have disturbed you. If that's what you're expect or foresee I think you're delusional.   

you compared 15 ppg to 10. thats a difference of 50%. If pippen averaged two more made baskets a game would everyone be wearing his shoes and saying I wanna be like Scottie? No, but if he increased his scoring by a just a mere, insignificant 50% than possibly so.

Right now Phil Greene generates a minimum of 19 points a game. That's just two more made baskets, insignificant no?

And if you were to read my posts you would understand that those stats are not what I "expect or foresee", rather a best case scenario.

Quote from: sju89tr on December 10, 2012, 10:20:14 AM

I don't care about numbers, I just want a guard to take care of the offense and get everyone involved by creating open looks on the perimeter. We have not had that in who knows how long. Even with the 2010 team, it really wasn't part of the offense. We also need Branch to harass the opposing playmaker to avoid the defensive errors in the interior with the man to man. 

I still say a guy like Malik Boothe would kill it with this team.  Sr year he averaged 4 ppg, 3 apg

What he would kill is my interest in the team.

Quote from: Moose on December 10, 2012, 10:23:35 AM

Quote from: sju89tr on December 10, 2012, 10:20:14 AM

I don't care about numbers, I just want a guard to take care of the offense and get everyone involved by creating open looks on the perimeter. We have not had that in who knows how long. Even with the 2010 team, it really wasn't part of the offense. We also need Branch to harass the opposing playmaker to avoid the defensive errors in the interior with the man to man. 

I still say a guy like Malik Boothe would kill it with this team.  Sr year he averaged 4 ppg, 3 apg

What he would kill is my interest in the team.

We disagree.  I think with the other parts on this team all we need is steady influence.

Oh geez now we are pining for Malik Boothe??? I think just to put the argument to bed we should have Malik Boothe, Geno, Tarik Turner and Mo Brown fight to the death to determine the worst point guard in team history.

No offense to Malik, but I believe a guy like Jason Buchanan would kill it wit this team. Steady, dependable and let others do whats flashy.

No offense to Malik, but I believe a guy like Jason Buchanan would kill it wit this team. Steady, dependable and let others do whats flashy.

Never saw Buchanan so I'll take your word for it.  My point was like you said steady, dependable is what I'm looking for.  I thought Malik showed that his Sr. year and would do well with the guys now.

Never saw Buchanan so I'll take your word for it.  My point was like you said steady, dependable is what I'm looking for.  I thought Malik showed that his Sr. year and would do well with the guys now.

Malik played really hard and he wasn't Geno..... but I am sorry to say he stunk
I would rather have Greene dribble around aimlessly trying to figure out the best spot to shoot his jumper

Never saw Buchanan so I'll take your word for it.  My point was like you said steady, dependable is what I'm looking for.  I thought Malik showed that his Sr. year and would do well with the guys now.

Malik played really hard and he wasn't Geno..... but I am sorry to say he stunk
I would rather have Greene dribble around aimlessly trying to figure out the best spot to shoot his jumper

Sometimes he just drives to one sot then shoots LOL

I would like to see Harrison and Greene show what they can do when they are being passed the ball with some space

I like it better when he decisively dribbles to his spot and shoots. The dribbling around looking for a spot to shoot or just simply pass it off to anyone for no reason is what kills the offense. It is really not his fault as he is not a point guard though.

I like it better when he decisively dribbles to his spot and shoots. The dribbling around looking for a spot to shoot or just simply pass it off to anyone for no reason is what kills the offense. It is really not his fault as he is not a point guard though.

But meanwhile he takes good care of the ball, great A to TO #'s and can hit the open man more often than not.  But he doesn't create opportunities for anyone else and takes the air out of the ball.

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

I would take the 10 rebounds a game. Is that asking too much from our point gaurd?

Let's hope Branch can hit a consistent jumper from the point position because it will only open more opportunities for Harrison.

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

10 points is fine. But if he shoots 50 percent from the floor (and our guards don't) that's 10 shots he takes from somewhere else. We average 70 ppg, that's ~ 40 possessions? 45? Ten shots is a quarter of that.   

If they come from Pointer and Jones, fine. But Harrison/Greene/Sampson will get theirs and Obekpa and Garrett and Balamou shoot at or above 50 % FG. Sophie Marceau is allegedly a shooter and gets no looks as it is.

Re assists, we definitely have three guys who can score. I'd buy into 2 pg and 5 assists. Screw Malik Boothe, give me Frank Alagia. Six is a high number though. Omar Cooke averaged 8 and he was second in the country. Mark Jackson was 9 as a junior.

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

Greene was averaging four with no interior passes and not being able to pass to himself. A good point guard could get 6 assists just from finding dlo and jakarr for jumpers.

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 04:45:15 PM

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

Greene was averaging four with no interior passes and not being able to pass to himself. A good point guard could get 6 assists just from finding dlo and jakarr for jumpers.

No.  Honestly, they can't.  GREAT pgs can. 

Again, I'll be thrilled if he can.   There's a chance that he can.  But there shouldn't be the expectation that he (or any specific player) will.      There are  345 D-1 programs.    345 D-1 starting PGs.     How do you define "good", or "great"?    Is being better than 90% of your peers great?   Is better than 75% of them "very  good"?   Gotta figure  50%   is pretty much the definition of average.  So....51-74% above average or "good"?

To be better than 90% of your peers this year, you need 5.7 assists per game (ranked #35 or better).    To  be better than 75%, you need 4.6.   To be "good" in this definition,  51% to 74% - you need....surprise - 4.0 per game.   

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 06:36:11 PM

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 04:45:15 PM

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

Greene was averaging four with no interior passes and not being able to pass to himself. A good point guard could get 6 assists just from finding dlo and jakarr for jumpers.

No.  Honestly, they can't.  GREAT pgs can. 

Again, I'll be thrilled if he can.   There's a chance that he can.  But there shouldn't be the expectation that he (or any specific player) will.      There are  345 D-1 programs.    345 D-1 starting PGs.     How do you define "good", or "great"?    Is being better than 90% of your peers great?   Is better than 75% of them "very  good"?   Gotta figure  50%   is pretty much the definition of average.  So....51-74% above average or "good"?

To be better than 90% of your peers this year, you need 5.7 assists per game (ranked #35 or better).    To  be better than 75%, you need 4.6.   To be "good" in this definition,  51% to 74% - you need....surprise - 4.0 per game.   

And I think we all hope Jamal can distribute the ball better than Phil.

If you were to make a list of the 35 best point guards in the NCAA it wouldn't be the same list as the 35 highest APG average. Some point guards excell at different areas of the game. Personally, I prefer a pass first point guard.

Quote from: Moose on December 10, 2012, 09:41:29 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 10, 2012, 08:21:55 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 09, 2012, 11:56:41 PM

Id LOVE a steady 10 pt 6 ast season. I do think he will be more of a scorer than some might think.

Peyton Siva is averaging 11 points and 6 assists a game this year. He's a senior on the 5th ranked team in the country and was voted preseason Player of the Year by the BE coaches. So yeah, 10 and 6 would be the balls. being something of a pessimist I don't know that I'd count on Branch to equal the statistics of the BE POTY coming right off the shelf vs St Francis but if he's not playing at that level by say the last week in December I'm definitely going to start dissecting his body language during time outs because I think he might be considering a transfer.

10 and 6 is also Quinn Cook a sophomore who didn't play much last year for Duke.  Peyton Siva is tough example.  As for the rest of your post its dead on.  By my count right now Harrison, Jones, and Marco all need to get out per our fans because Harrison is a nutjob and Jones and Marco sulk.

Quinn Cook is averaging 6 assists a game on an undefeated DoOk team with five starters averaging in double figures. SJU doesn't have the same number of targets.

The larger point is that the SJ fan base has ridiculous expectations for its players. Jones and Peppy Le Pew are half a dozen games into their college careers. I expect them to stink and they do and so am not disappointed. Whereas when someone like Sampson comes in and excels immediately I'm excited and surprised. Generally I don't start lip reading and analyzing body language until the players are juniors.

Re Harrison, I rewound the exchange a couple of times. At first I thought he was jabbing Lavin in the chest and thought his behavior appalling. But considering what had just transpired on the court and the great and powerful lack of reaction I concluded that Harrison was pointing not at Lavin but down the court toward the place where he had just been mugged. Lavin's chest was just in the way. It's impossible to believe that Harrison was standing there yelling at Lavin and poking him in the chest and Lavin just stood there taking it.

After seeing the replay, and in the context of the mugging that had just transpired, on the court....I agree...

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 07:29:34 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 06:36:11 PM

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 04:45:15 PM

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

Greene was averaging four with no interior passes and not being able to pass to himself. A good point guard could get 6 assists just from finding dlo and jakarr for jumpers.

No.  Honestly, they can't.  GREAT pgs can. 

Again, I'll be thrilled if he can.   There's a chance that he can.  But there shouldn't be the expectation that he (or any specific player) will.      There are  345 D-1 programs.    345 D-1 starting PGs.     How do you define "good", or "great"?    Is being better than 90% of your peers great?   Is better than 75% of them "very  good"?   Gotta figure  50%   is pretty much the definition of average.  So....51-74% above average or "good"?

To be better than 90% of your peers this year, you need 5.7 assists per game (ranked #35 or better).    To  be better than 75%, you need 4.6.   To be "good" in this definition,  51% to 74% - you need....surprise - 4.0 per game.   

And I think we all hope Jamal can distribute the ball better than Phil.

If you were to make a list of the 35 best point guards in the NCAA it wouldn't be the same list as the 35 highest APG average. Some point guards excell at different areas of the game. Personally, I prefer a pass first point guard.

Phil is doing Yoeman's work as a PG this season even though he is probably better suited as a SG or combo type.  I hope people don't forget how good of a job Phill Greene is doing this year.  People don't want to look at his numbers as an indication, but they are excellent, even if he's not a "pure" PG.  If this team overall were a little further along and more mature, Phil would probably be praised.  I for one am happy to have him.  He's not further down the line than 6th man at worst.  Kid is good.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 08:18:13 PM

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 07:29:34 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 10, 2012, 06:36:11 PM

Quote from: crgreen on December 10, 2012, 04:45:15 PM

Just getting in on this 10/6 business.  10 pts is certainly doable, and depending on minutes played, not even an unreasonable expectation for a kid with 50 pt scoring games on his high school resume, like Branch.   But 6 assists a game?   Do you realize that right now, that would put him #25 in all of Division 1?

6.0 assists is an EXCEPTIONAL number.   It's the equivalent of projecting 21 points a game.   Or 10 rebounds a game.   Or  48% 3pt shooting.   Or 92% Free Throws.   or a 3.2:1 Assist to Turnover Ratio.  Or 2.6 blocks per game. 

Not saying 6 is impossible, just that to expect it is silly.   I think 4 or better would be an outstanding first year for us.    Put it this way - 10.0 pts and 4.7 assists got Marquise Teague into the first round as a frosh.

Greene was averaging four with no interior passes and not being able to pass to himself. A good point guard could get 6 assists just from finding dlo and jakarr for jumpers.

No.  Honestly, they can't.  GREAT pgs can. 

Again, I'll be thrilled if he can.   There's a chance that he can.  But there shouldn't be the expectation that he (or any specific player) will.      There are  345 D-1 programs.    345 D-1 starting PGs.     How do you define "good", or "great"?    Is being better than 90% of your peers great?   Is better than 75% of them "very  good"?   Gotta figure  50%   is pretty much the definition of average.  So....51-74% above average or "good"?

To be better than 90% of your peers this year, you need 5.7 assists per game (ranked #35 or better).    To  be better than 75%, you need 4.6.   To be "good" in this definition,  51% to 74% - you need....surprise - 4.0 per game.   

And I think we all hope Jamal can distribute the ball better than Phil.

If you were to make a list of the 35 best point guards in the NCAA it wouldn't be the same list as the 35 highest APG average. Some point guards excell at different areas of the game. Personally, I prefer a pass first point guard.

Phil is doing Yoeman's work as a PG this season even though he is probably better suited as a SG or combo type.  I hope people don't forget how good of a job Phill Greene is doing this year.  People don't want to look at his numbers as an indication, but they are excellent, even if he's not a "pure" PG.  If this team overall were a little further along and more mature, Phil would probably be praised.  I for one am happy to have him.  He's not further down the line than 6th man at worst.  Kid is good.

Like him a lot. I think ill like him even more off the ball. Maybe not right away, but once he remembers how to play on the wing.