Syracuse Game Discussion

I'll save my full coaching rant for tomorrow, out of respect. For now, I'll just offer this: I dont care whether you're coaching 9 year olds, CYO, AAU, or Big East basketball...if a team is setting ballscreens at the top against a 2-3 defense, the coach has no idea what he's doing. Period. End of story.

Quote from: Moose on February 10, 2013, 05:08:01 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 10, 2013, 04:59:56 PM

I am sick of Obekpa this year.  He is the worst offensive player I have ever seen and be should have had about 20 points on putbacks if he had 1/20th the desire or quickness of Sampson.  I dont want to hear about his blocked shots For the rest if the year because he would be riding the pine on any top team in the country.

I'm sick of him too.
His presence is forcing teams to the outside to shoot 3's on us.
He should sit
..................

the great thing about Obeka and Gods Gift is that they are getting our name out there outside if basketball. The great thing about them is that they seem like genuinely great people, and what makes Obeka special is that he is only a freshman. Is it annoying that Obeka should be more of an offensive force yes. Overall he is a great ambassador to St. John's and we need all the attention that we can get....especially since we can't fill the Garden...

I hope you realize my post was pure sarcastic response to Marillac.  But then again Marillac had Harkless pegged as first round pick as well and countless other prognostications so maybe were all wrong

Without Harrison, this team would have 5 wins.

Don't think anyone in their right mind would question that this team would be much worse off without Harrison. But I think it is legitimate to question if he will ever have the right mindset to lead this basketball team. We talk about him being a 4-year player and expect him to be an integral part (if not, THE MAN) of our success over the next few years. His  body language when things get tough is frustrating to see, but that has been mentioned before. What I found disturbing was what happened during today's game. He hits a deep 3 with the shot clock winding down at the start of the 2nd half when we are showing signs of life. Instead of just locking and getting back to play D, he starts jawing it up with some hick Cuse fan in the front row. Dakic is an awful announcer, but he said it best today when he said it looks like D'Angelo is just concerned with playing for himself. I think Lavin, the coaching staff and the fans want D'Angelo to be the leader of this team because he has the best natural scoring ability. But I just don't think that leadership quality is in him. Not sure if this team will ever really go anywhere without a player who can lead this team and reign Harrison in. Hopefully Lavin will be able to do it, but as someone already mentioned it is difficult without Lav being there full-time as of yet for D'Angelo.

Additionally, just in terms of basketball. Our last 2 losses (@ Gtown and @Cuse) where we could have made a statement by pulling out a tough road win, our best player has flat out not shown up. In these 2 games combined, Harrison has scored a total of 20 points while shooting 7-25 from the field. Plain and simple, that's just not gonna get it done. Big-time players show up in big-time games. We have yet to see that out of Harrison...

I'll save my full coaching rant for tomorrow, out of respect. For now, I'll just offer this: I dont care whether you're coaching 9 year olds, CYO, AAU, or Big East basketball...if a team is setting ballscreens at the top against a 2-3 defense, the coach has no idea what he's doing. Period. End of story.

Yeah, I didn't care how the game was coached by Hines today.  We needed man-to man do or some other zones, not a 2-3.  I think that was our worst option probably.  You actually can use ball screens vs 2-3 though. If you don't, you'll almost never get open or even get an entry pass.

http://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/plays/pitt.html

Quote from: nudginator59 on February 10, 2013, 05:19:49 PM

Quote from: Moose on February 10, 2013, 05:08:01 PM

Quote from: Marillac on February 10, 2013, 04:59:56 PM

I am sick of Obekpa this year.  He is the worst offensive player I have ever seen and be should have had about 20 points on putbacks if he had 1/20th the desire or quickness of Sampson.  I dont want to hear about his blocked shots For the rest if the year because he would be riding the pine on any top team in the country.

I'm sick of him too.
His presence is forcing teams to the outside to shoot 3's on us.
He should sit
..................

the great thing about Obeka and Gods Gift is that they are getting our name out there outside if basketball. The great thing about them is that they seem like genuinely great people, and what makes Obeka special is that he is only a freshman. Is it annoying that Obeka should be more of an offensive force yes. Overall he is a great ambassador to St. John's and we need all the attention that we can get....especially since we can't fill the Garden...

I hope you realize my post was pure sarcastic response to Marillac.  But then again Marillac had Harkless pegged as first round pick as well and countless other prognostications so maybe were all wrong

moose you can't be sarcastic we all know how much you hate St. John's! I sensed a go Iona moment during the game from you! 

Our best player is Jakarr

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket. 

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket. 

BINGO.

Quote from: tnice on February 10, 2013, 05:21:25 PM

I'll save my full coaching rant for tomorrow, out of respect. For now, I'll just offer this: I dont care whether you're coaching 9 year olds, CYO, AAU, or Big East basketball...if a team is setting ballscreens at the top against a 2-3 defense, the coach has no idea what he's doing. Period. End of story.

Yeah, I didn't care how the game was coached by Hines today.  We needed man-to man do or some other zones, not a 2-3.  I think that was our worst option probably.

I agree with you that we shouldnt have come out in 2-3 against Cuse, but thats not what I was referring to. I was referring to our offense against a 2-3 which involves setting screens for the ball at the top of the key...something which I'd wager no other team in Division 1 basketball does because its so stupid and shows a complete lack of understanding of how to defeat a zone defense.

 We just aren't on the same level with Syracuse.  You can blame the loss on a million things.. They are better...a lot better.

I'm really tired of getting beat by Syracuse. They have been bullying us for over 10 years. You have to go back to Artest and those guys for the last time a St. John's team wasn't scared or in awe of Cuse.

This is so true.  These guy's were initimidated early on.  I know that no one wants to hear it, but Cuse was loaded for bear and this group is too greene (no pun intended).

They showed up for a good stretch of the second half.  I don't see this Cuse team as unbeatable.

I really hope they get a second chance at them with Branch in the BE tounament.

Nothing would be sweeter than to end Cuse's BE life.

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket. 

As Choz says, words of wisdom Desco!

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket.

Gotta be honest, I didnt think we played horrible defense at all today.  Sometimes the other team shoots well. A couple of Southerland's 3's, a couple of Triche's and at least one of MCW's were from borderline NBA range. Can't blame the D for that. If they're 9th in the BE in 3pt.% then maybe the game plan wasnt to sell out to take away the three. Not exactly scientific, but at no point during the game did I find my self screaming at the TV about our D. If anything I was saying these lucky SOB's cant keep it up. Now if you want to argue that once they started hitting from deep we shouldve gone man, thats another story.

Quote from: desco80 on February 10, 2013, 05:32:08 PM

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket.

Now if you want to argue that once they started hitting from deep we shouldve gone man, thats another story.

That is what bothers me about this staff. We NEVER make the in-game adjustment when a team starts making WIDE OPEN 3-pointers...

Hope we can avoid another beat down v. L'Ville this week. If we do manage to grab 10 wins in BE, I don't want to fail the "eye test" with one sided losses against GT, Cuse and Louisville. Let's compete Thursday. No moral victories please. Make it interesting at the least and gain some positive "mojo" going forward.

Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2013, 05:10:37 PM

Without Harrison, this team would have 5 wins.

Don't think anyone in their right mind would question that this team would be much worse off without Harrison. But I think it is legitimate to question if he will ever have the right mindset to lead this basketball team. We talk about him being a 4-year player and expect him to be an integral part (if not, THE MAN) of our success over the next few years. His  body language when things get tough is frustrating to see, but that has been mentioned before. What I found disturbing was what happened during today's game. He hits a deep 3 with the shot clock winding down at the start of the 2nd half when we are showing signs of life. Instead of just locking and getting back to play D, he starts jawing it up with some hick Cuse fan in the front row. Dakic is an awful announcer, but he said it best today when he said it looks like D'Angelo is just concerned with playing for himself. I think Lavin, the coaching staff and the fans want D'Angelo to be the leader of this team because he has the best natural scoring ability. But I just don't think that leadership quality is in him. Not sure if this team will ever really go anywhere without a player who can lead this team and reign Harrison in. Hopefully Lavin will be able to do it, but as someone already mentioned it is difficult without Lav being there full-time as of yet for D'Angelo.

Additionally, just in terms of basketball. Our last 2 losses (@ Gtown and @Cuse) where we could have made a statement by pulling out a tough road win, our best player has flat out not shown up. In these 2 games combined, Harrison has scored a total of 20 points while shooting 7-25 from the field. Plain and simple, that's just not gonna get it done. Big-time players show up in big-time games. We have yet to see that out of Harrison...

Harrison showed up enough in our 7 wins. Hatten's senior season we won 7 games. Yes, Hatten was better, but Harrison isn't surrounded by experienced players to pick it up when he's having an off day. That much isn't his fault.

If you want to blame Harrison for his attitude, then apply Blake everywhere it belongs. There's no experience in the frontcourt. That's on the staff. Let them have it too.

Quote from: desco80 on February 10, 2013, 05:32:08 PM

Everyone is talking about how it would've helped if we had Branch, if Phil could've played off the ball, how Obekpa needs to improve offensively, and how we turned the ball over too much.   All these things may be true, and it also would've certainly helped if Marco and D'angelo had a better day shooting...

But we let Syracuse shoot almost 55% from the field and 45% from 3!    We had just 2 blocks!  and 4 steals.   

Defense, Defense, Defense !!!     

Syracuse is an average 3pt shooting team, 9th in the BE right now.   We lead the country in blocks, and get our fair share of steals.   
Bottom line, we played terrible defense today.   

And our offense starts with good defense.   Coach says that all the time, and it's largely true.   We can't push it after a made basket.

Gotta be honest, I didnt think we played horrible defense at all today.  Sometimes the other team shoots well. A couple of Southerland's 3's, a couple of Triche's and at least one of MCW's were from borderline NBA range. Can't blame the D for that. If they're 9th in the BE in 3pt.% then maybe the game plan wasnt to sell out to take away the three. Not exactly scientific, but at no point during the game did I find my self screaming at the TV about our D. If anything I was saying these lucky SOB's cant keep it up. Now if you want to argue that once they started hitting from deep we shouldve gone man, thats another story.

I hear what you're saying, but I used to have a coach in HS who said the other team gets lucky when you're lazy.   It's cliche sure, but there's some truth to that.   They did hit a few frp, deep, but it's not like we had a hand in their face.    We win when the game gets "ugly", when we smother the other team on defense and you have to battle for every single basket.   That didn't happen today, every possession wasn't a battle for Syracuse.   It was just shooting practice. 

Bad defense isn't as obvious in bball, it's not like a blow coverage in football and guys are wide open.   It's being 2 steps further away from your man than you should be to make him alter his shot.  I think Syracuse has pretty good ball movement, and we should've been trying to get into passing lanes to disrupt that. 

But better defense comes with experience, our guys will learn to anticipate things soon enough.   Frustrating loss, but we'll be fine.

Quote from: JungleFever on February 10, 2013, 05:22:40 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2013, 05:10:37 PM

Without Harrison, this team would have 5 wins.

Don't think anyone in their right mind would question that this team would be much worse off without Harrison. But I think it is legitimate to question if he will ever have the right mindset to lead this basketball team. We talk about him being a 4-year player and expect him to be an integral part (if not, THE MAN) of our success over the next few years. His  body language when things get tough is frustrating to see, but that has been mentioned before. What I found disturbing was what happened during today's game. He hits a deep 3 with the shot clock winding down at the start of the 2nd half when we are showing signs of life. Instead of just locking and getting back to play D, he starts jawing it up with some hick Cuse fan in the front row. Dakic is an awful announcer, but he said it best today when he said it looks like D'Angelo is just concerned with playing for himself. I think Lavin, the coaching staff and the fans want D'Angelo to be the leader of this team because he has the best natural scoring ability. But I just don't think that leadership quality is in him. Not sure if this team will ever really go anywhere without a player who can lead this team and reign Harrison in. Hopefully Lavin will be able to do it, but as someone already mentioned it is difficult without Lav being there full-time as of yet for D'Angelo.

Additionally, just in terms of basketball. Our last 2 losses (@ Gtown and @Cuse) where we could have made a statement by pulling out a tough road win, our best player has flat out not shown up. In these 2 games combined, Harrison has scored a total of 20 points while shooting 7-25 from the field. Plain and simple, that's just not gonna get it done. Big-time players show up in big-time games. We have yet to see that out of Harrison...

Harrison showed up enough in our 7 wins. Hatten's senior season we won 7 games. Yes, Hatten was better, but Harrison isn't surrounded by experienced players to pick it up when he's having an off day. That much isn't his fault.

If you want to blame Harrison for his attitude, then apply Blake everywhere it belongs. There's no experience in the frontcourt. That's on the staff. Let them have it too.

We let Norm have it all the time - even three years later.

Hope we can avoid another beat down v. L'Ville this week. If we do manage to grab 10 wins in BE, I don't want to fail the "eye test" with one sided losses against GT, Cuse and Louisville. Let's compete Thursday. No moral victories please. Make it interesting at the least and gain some positive "mojo" going forward.

That's a great point.   
I think we all expected a roller coaster in in conference play, we knew we'd lose some games - but we also thought we'd win some that we weren't supposed to. 
  That second part needs to kick in soon haha 

Just got ack from watching the game and here are my two cents worth of observations.

First, the good........

1. Jakar can play with anyone, with or without ( as there was none today) an offensive scheme.  The only negative with him is that if he gets too good he may opt to leave and there really is no one on the team or coming in to fill his shoes.

2. While Marco shot poorly, at least they looked for him.

3. Defense at times and defensive boards were not too bad, but again that old nemesis of the teams defending against the three reared it's ugly head.

Now the bad......

1.  How anyone on this site who has the least knowledge of this great game of basketball can watch as DLo continuously put up one bad forced shot after another, some from almost half court, and not be disgusted is beyond me. While I am sure that if DLo,  who actually shot us out of the game early, had Lavin on the sidelines, would have been yanked early on. If anyone noticed the looks on our players faces when he was hoisting up one 30 footer after another with little success, you could see the discouragement.  And please lets stop with the " who is supposed to take the shots" crap as basketball is supposed to be a "team" game, not a highlight show for one player ir another. While I expect Moose is going to jump to DLo's defense, I am not blaming DLo for this fiasco but the staff or allowing an offense to be based on whatever he wants to do with the ball.  Moving forward, if the staff does not correct this crap now, the few games we may win will not be worth the detrimental effect this will have on this team in the long run. If we are truly a "young team" as has been echoed by many the entire season, then this should be about building for the future, not about a few cheap wins letting one player have carte Blanche to do what he wants.  While I believe we are a year away from competing with the Cuse, if ths issue is not corrected, we may not compete for some time to come.