Our staff...

The bottom line is that right now we have a very weak staff.

You are certainly entitled to this opinion but I think it is very fair to say it is well off base.

We can start off with just staffs within the Big East. Who would you take over St. John's?

Pretty funny reading some of these comments...

Bunch of delusional fans who actually think SJU is a relevant basketball program and that Lavin is somehow holding it back from its glory.  I for one am shocked that in 3 years Lavin lost out on top 20 to top 50 recruits to programs like UCLA, Arizona and Syracuse, how can he be so incompetent??? 

Maybe you guys forgot to look back at the last 20 - 30 years of rich history of Red Storm basketball.  keep dreaming because reality is a bitch......

People jumping ship are absurd.  We will be a very good team next year. Even if we add no additional recruits, we still are adding Sanchez, Gift and Hooper who fill big needs like big man and another shooter.  We will also have a full season of Branch, whom we didn't get half season out of this year.  It is apparent he's more well suited than Phil to the PG spot and will be good to have the entire year.  No doubt this season unravelled a bit at the end, but I we were still a bubble team until our recent suspensions and on-court debacle.  I suspect we will be an NCAA team the next 2 years so I don't see reason for going crazy just yet.

You are certainly entitled to this opinion but I think it is very fair to say it is well off base.

We can start off with just staffs within the Big East. Who would you take over St. John's?

Its not about other staffs being better or worse, they don't matter to us. Its about who Coach Lavin has surrounded himself with and how they work as a group.

All of the guys we have know plenty about basketball and bring different things to the table and they all probably work hard. All of that still doesn't make them a good staff.

If Keady and Lavin still travel to school together I would love to hear a tape of their conversation today.

Lavin-Tough game, Phil looked real good tonight though
Keady-What time is Matlock on tonight?
Lavin-I don't know but my circle motion offense is really coming together, by 2015 it should really be humming. I wonder if coach Knight was impressed?
Keady-I hate that bastard
Lavin-Was it me or do you think Marco eye rolled me when I took him out 5 seconds after I put him in
Keady-That Betty White is one hot dish!
Lavin-I think I am going to have to suspend Marco
Keady-Did someone hide my Makers Mark again?
Lavin- Hammer to rock

Good stuff Wasju. 

PMG -- I understand you saying that we need an X's and O's guy and/or someone to breakdown film.  But Chiles is a recruiter, based on my understanding.  And we've recruited well.  Why then would we replace him?

You are certainly entitled to this opinion but I think it is very fair to say it is well off base.

We can start off with just staffs within the Big East. Who would you take over St. John's?

Its not about other staffs being better or worse, they don't matter to us. Its about who Coach Lavin has surrounded himself with and how they work as a group.

All of the guys we have know plenty about basketball and bring different things to the table and they all probably work hard. All of that still doesn't make them a good staff.

You are saying staff is weak. There must be some standard you are holding this to. Unless you think all colleges have weak staffs.

The fan base on this board is truly delusional. It takes time to build a program when you start with nothing--nada--no returning players of any qualtiy. It is hard enough to simply keep a good program rolling , filling one or two slots ayear. The task here was to do it all--instantaneously! And to recruit these hight quality players into a program that had been moribund for two decades, and for which no one wanted to play. We were Lazarus and we needed Jusus to resurrect us. Lavin comes in, recruits a host of top 100 players, assembles a great staff, makes us relevant again, transforms us into a program on the rise, and people here criticize him because although the corpse is now living and breathing , it can't run a four minute mile yet. Get real folks. There is no magic wand. Patience.

All the inheriting nothing talks gets me because we had 7 of the 9 kids committed before opening night.  So sight unseen Lavin pulled in a Top 3, 4, 5 whatever number you want to pick class.  Went out and got a group of Sr's to the dance.  Yeah some people didn't make it to campus, schools had guys returning in addition to these freshman.  Its really impossible to form apples to apples comparison etc. but high class should mean high results. Maybe its the first year class was hyped way too much.  We got the high class because of sheer # of kids as opposed to high ranked players but less of them.  Food for thought nonetheless. 

Top 10 classes per Rivals-

Last year

Kentucky- 32-2
Duke- 27-6
STJ- 13-19
Arizona- 23-11
Alabama- 21-11
UNC- 29-5
Arkansas- 18-14
Texas- 20-13
Lville- 26-9
Ohio St- 27-7

This year

Kentucky- 20-9
Duke- 26-4
STJ- 16-13
Arizona- 23-6
Alabama- 19-11
UNC- 21-8
Arkansas- 18-12
Texas- 14-16
Lville- 25-5
Ohio St- 22-7

All the inheriting nothing talks gets me because we had 7 of the 9 kids committed before opening night.  So sight unseen Lavin pulled in a Top 3, 4, 5 whatever number you want to pick class.  Went out and got a group of Sr's to the dance.  Yeah some people didn't make it to campus, schools had guys returning in addition to these freshman.  Its really impossible to form apples to apples comparison etc. but high class should mean high results. Maybe its the first year class was hyped way too much.  We got the high class because of sheer # of kids as opposed to high ranked players but less of them.  Food for thought nonetheless. 

Top 10 classes per Rivals-

Last year

Kentucky- 32-2
Duke- 27-6
STJ- 13-19
Arizona- 23-11
Alabama- 21-11
UNC- 29-5
Arkansas- 18-14
Texas- 20-13
Lville- 26-9
Ohio St- 27-7

This year

Kentucky- 20-9
Duke- 26-4
STJ- 16-13
Arizona- 23-6
Alabama- 19-11
UNC- 21-8
Arkansas- 18-12
Texas- 14-16
Lville- 25-5
Ohio St- 22-7

How many of those teams lost nearly 100% of it's offense in one season? Followed by a season of nothing but underclassmen. I would guess Texas is the only one that comes close to going through what we did.

IMO we are the only team on that list that has been in complete rebuilding mode. And the results show that.

Quote from: Moose on March 06, 2013, 04:17:34 PM

All the inheriting nothing talks gets me because we had 7 of the 9 kids committed before opening night.  So sight unseen Lavin pulled in a Top 3, 4, 5 whatever number you want to pick class.  Went out and got a group of Sr's to the dance.  Yeah some people didn't make it to campus, schools had guys returning in addition to these freshman.  Its really impossible to form apples to apples comparison etc. but high class should mean high results. Maybe its the first year class was hyped way too much.  We got the high class because of sheer # of kids as opposed to high ranked players but less of them.  Food for thought nonetheless. 

Top 10 classes per Rivals-

Last year

Kentucky- 32-2
Duke- 27-6
STJ- 13-19
Arizona- 23-11
Alabama- 21-11
UNC- 29-5
Arkansas- 18-14
Texas- 20-13
Lville- 26-9
Ohio St- 27-7

This year

Kentucky- 20-9
Duke- 26-4
STJ- 16-13
Arizona- 23-6
Alabama- 19-11
UNC- 21-8
Arkansas- 18-12
Texas- 14-16
Lville- 25-5
Ohio St- 22-7

How many of those teams lost nearly 100% of it's offense in one season? Followed by a season of nothing but underclassmen. I would guess Texas is the only one that comes close to going through what we did.

IMO we are the only team on that list that has been in complete rebuilding mode. And the results show that.

Never did I ignore that fact. I mentioned it in my post.  Again lots of factors.  What was the next year's class like.  Our follow up class was strong as well.  But in reality one of the guys was from the first class and we lost the best player from the first one.  Again I think the accolades and press clippings are nice but it puts unnecessary high standards on our performance.

Unless he just decides the hell with this and goes back to TV, I truly believe Lavin will eventually outrecruit his deficiencies and get us back to being a yearly tourney team. I really do. The funny thing is for the most part these forums are more united in their disgust now than at any time during the Norm era except towards the very end. I am not saying people are saying Lavin should be fired, he shouldn't. Just seems people are disgusted a lot earlier than with Norm. I guess it is the culmulative effect of basically sucking for more than a decade.

You are saying staff is weak. There must be some standard you are holding this to. Unless you think all colleges have weak staffs.

The standard is the results they are getting from the players, they are not good.

What does Chiles do besides go out on the road and hopefully deliver players. He has gotten a few but where are we for this year, we are 0/2013 class right now.

Hines is player development and while he has a good rep, I don't see our guys as being that improved from last season.

Who is Lavin's guy on staff, who is his #1 assistant, the guy he turns to at crunch time and knows he can trust. Most staffs have that guy, the guy they trust with theirs lives, the guy they trust when the game is on the line and he needs that little tidbit that will help make a difference.

If you watch our games and watch the huddles - that guy is not on our staff...

Hell, right or wrong Norm trusted Braccia with his life...

You are saying staff is weak. There must be some standard you are holding this to. Unless you think all colleges have weak staffs.

The standard is the results they are getting from the players, they are not good.

What does Chiles do besides go out on the road and hopefully deliver players. He has gotten a few but where are we for this year, we are 0/2013 class right now.

Hines is player development and while he has a good rep, I don't see our guys as being that improved from last season.

Who is Lavin's guy on staff, who is his #1 assistant, the guy he turns to at crunch time and knows he can trust. Most staffs have that guy, the guy they trust with theirs lives, the guy they trust when the game is on the line and he needs that little tidbit that will help make a difference.

If you watch our games and watch the huddles - that guy is not on our staff...

Hell, right or wrong Norm trusted Braccia with his life...

But Chiles delivered really well the 1st 2 seasons with kids. No ?

Unless he just decides the hell with this and goes back to TV, I truly believe Lavin will eventually outrecruit his deficiencies and get us back to being a yearly tourney team. I really do. The funny thing is for the most part these forums are more united in their disgust now than at any time during the Norm era except towards the very end. I am not saying people are saying Lavin should be fired, he shouldn't. Just seems people are disgusted a lot earlier than with Norm. I guess it is the culmulative effect of basically sucking for more than a decade.

I don't think it's that - I think that is that we were given a glimmer, or more than a glimmer of hope; and in some peoples' eyes it had been snuffed out.   So it hurts more.  I personally don't subscribe that the hope has been snuffed out, but I understand why some fans feel that way.

 Lavin being interviewed on SNY now.

 I'd be shocked if Harrison returns.

Lavin being interviewed on SNY now.

 I'd be shocked if Harrison returns.

what did he say about him ?

Lavin being interviewed on SNY now.

 I'd be shocked if Harrison returns.

Just posted same reaction on Harrison thread. He's gone IMO.

  Basically that he would welcome him back if that's what he wants.  Said Harrison and his family are going to evaluate what their best options are.  Lavin said he will support him whether he decides to come back to STJ or move on...

 That was it in a nutshell.  I just got the feeling that we've seen the last of him.  I hope I'm wrong.

I hear Harrison got into a fight with Rico Hines while Lavin was out mourning his father