BET: 1st Round Nova Game Discussion

I almost can't wait to get rid of Greene, Harrison, Garrett, Jones, and a few other guys from that class. Hopefully with our next class we get BASKETBALL players who know how to find the bottom of the net.

So, you want to get rid of Harrison? I guess I feel the opposite. I'd like him back ASAP. I don't find it enjoyable getting my ass kicked. And without Harrison, I'm getting it kicked with consistency.

1 top 10 class, 1 top 20 class, now adding a player that scouts claim is NBA ready right now to that mix along with the ROY, #1 shot blocker, #3 Big East scorer (if he comes back), etc. On top of all that, youth will be erased from the excuses list. Next year the talent will be there, and Hooper is supposed to solve some of our shooting woes. Lavin will unquestionably be on the hot seat if we fail to make the tourney. By tourney I don't mean NIT, I mean NCAA. People on here talk about sweet 16's and even elite 8's before the season...hell, let's try MAKING the tourney first. 1 time in a decade won't cut it and our already thin fanbase will be alienated even more if we lay another egg next year.

Bourgault was supposed to solve our shooting woes this year and we saw how well that worked out

And I think it's an extraordinarily bad idea to bank on Hooper coming in and fixing our biggest problem. This was not a highly ranked recruit and he couldn't crack the rotation at Harvard. To expect him to have a major impact next year is a stretch.

Quote from: illscalpya4000 on March 13, 2013, 10:46:46 PM

Ashamed of the SJU product this season.
The brand is living off the 80's and it's 2013!!!!!!!


DO Something!
 

+100000000 Being a young Johnnies fan, it gets tiring having to hear stories from before you were born. It becomes tiring being told "well we used to be great" when all we have seen is failure. The truth is, if you were born in say 1987 or later, SJ has been absolutely pathetic while you have been a fan. And then you have the older guys wondering why the younger fans see no hope. Kinda hard when making the tourney alone seems like too hard of an accomplishment. New York is a "what have you done for me lately" city. Either do stuff NOW or fall into irrelevancy. SJ is doing the latter.

They've been irrelevant for a long time now

Last NCAA Tournament win was 2000. That's 13 years ago.

Not much to say when you think of it that way

Quote from: RedStormyNight on March 13, 2013, 10:01:42 PM

1 top 10 class, 1 top 20 class, now adding a player that scouts claim is NBA ready right now to that mix along with the ROY, #1 shot blocker, #3 Big East scorer (if he comes back), etc. On top of all that, youth will be erased from the excuses list. Next year the talent will be there, and Hooper is supposed to solve some of our shooting woes. Lavin will unquestionably be on the hot seat if we fail to make the tourney. By tourney I don't mean NIT, I mean NCAA. People on here talk about sweet 16's and even elite 8's before the season...hell, let's try MAKING the tourney first. 1 time in a decade won't cut it and our already thin fanbase will be alienated even more if we lay another egg next year.

Bourgault was supposed to solve our shooting woes this year and we saw how well that worked out

And I think it's an extraordinarily bad idea to bank on Hooper coming in and fixing our biggest problem. This was not a highly ranked recruit and he couldn't crack the rotation at Harvard. To expect him to have a major impact next year is a stretch.

Who are we going to go out and get? I think we'll have to see a transfer or two. Bourgault is a strong possibility. I wish him well either way, but he wasn't ready for D1 ball. He just isn't quick enough.

Btw, circles has been playing much better lately.   Not that the bar was set very high, he had some awful games a month ago.

But give credit where it's due, Greene has been better lately.   His runners/floaters in the lane are a rare skill most guys take years to learn.   

Btw, circles has been playing much better lately.   Not that the bar was set very high, he had some awful games a month ago.

But give credit where it's due, Greene has been better lately.   His runners/floaters in the lane are a rare skill most guys take years to learn.   

Greene has played his best ball since Harrison's suspension.  He was confident in taking it to the hoop. He's def a SG and not  a PG.

Love the guys who complain that certain guys were ranked way to high and now complaining that guys who were not ranked at all can't help us. I have an idea why don't we just let the season play out next year, we were ranked 10th in the preseason this year and that was with sanchez playing. Next season our front court is set w Chris, Jakarr and Orlando. Phil/Jamel and D'lo is not a terrible back court add Gift,Dom, Amir, Jones, Felix,Marco and Max off the bench we should have a decent rotation. I do hope we add an X's and O's asst to help. Plus the trip to Europe should give us a nice chance to play against comp and get a feel for each other. Maybe i'm an optimist but i still feel like we are headed in the right direction. I just wish we could be a little more positive and support the program as we head into a "new" big east and we'll have an increase in revenue and exposure that can only help. We have had a couple of bad breaks over the past few seasons, i.e. Coach missing last season, losing Dunlap, losing Moe, decommit from Gathers and the mess with Pelle, losing out on recruits who we have never would of been involved with if it wasn't for Lavs like Wainwright, Nash, Mcullough and Lawerence.

Quote from: DoodyNY33 on March 13, 2013, 11:24:29 PM

Quote from: RedStormyNight on March 13, 2013, 10:01:42 PM

1 top 10 class, 1 top 20 class, now adding a player that scouts claim is NBA ready right now to that mix along with the ROY, #1 shot blocker, #3 Big East scorer (if he comes back), etc. On top of all that, youth will be erased from the excuses list. Next year the talent will be there, and Hooper is supposed to solve some of our shooting woes. Lavin will unquestionably be on the hot seat if we fail to make the tourney. By tourney I don't mean NIT, I mean NCAA. People on here talk about sweet 16g's and even elite 8's before the season...hell, let's try MAKING the tourney first. 1 time in a decade won't cut it and our already thin fanbase will be alienated even more if we lay another egg next year.

Bourgault was supposed to solve our shooting woes this year and we saw how well that worked out

And I think it's an extraordinarily bad idea to bank on Hooper coming in and fixing our biggest problem. This was not a highly ranked recruit and he couldn't crack the rotation at Harvard. To expect him to have a major impact next year is a stretch.

Who are we going to go out and get? I think we'll have to see a transfer or two. Bourgault is a strong possibility. I wish him well either way, but he wasn't ready for D1 ball. He just isn't quick enough.

I'm not expecting them to get anybody. Which is why I don't expect a whole hell of a lot improvement next year. Will they win a few more games? Maybe. Will they be a bubble team? Yeah, I could see that. But the fundamental issue with this team is it can't shoot. Game after game, we talk about rebounding and defense and who the best PG on the roster is. But the problem is the team does not have 1 player who can really shoot. And until you address this glaring weakness, you are going to be a mediocre team at best.

Love the guys who complain that certain guys were ranked way to high and now complaining that guys who were not ranked at all can't help us. I have an idea why don't we just let the season play out next year, we were ranked 10th in the preseason this year and that was with sanchez playing. Next season our front court is set w Chris, Jakarr and Orlando. Phil/Jamel and D'lo is not a terrible back court add Gift,Dom, Amir, Jones, Felix,Marco and Max off the bench we should have a decent rotation. I do hope we add an X's and O's asst to help. Plus the trip to Europe should give us a nice chance to play against comp and get a feel for each other. Maybe i'm an optimist but i still feel like we are headed in the right direction. I just wish we could be a little more positive and support the program as we head into a "new" big east and we'll have an increase in revenue and exposure that can only help. We have had a couple of bad breaks over the past few seasons, i.e. Coach missing last season, losing Dunlap, losing Moe, decommit from Gathers and the mess with Pelle, losing out on recruits who we have never would of been involved with if it wasn't for Lavs like Wainwright, Nash, Mcullough and Lawerence.

2 things

If we go into next year with the same team, the team will again be unable to shoot the basketball. And if we ever want to see the program become a legitimate contender, they are going to need to fix that problem.

Yes, it is nice that we were involved with Martin, Wainwright, Lawrence and possibly Jordan. Fact is he hasn't landed any of them. So I'm not giving him a backslap for almost getting a high recruit. I understand he's of the better recruiters in the game, but let's not pretend this was a successful fall and spring of recruiting for our staff. We had our targets and so far have struck out on all of them.

Well since Mullin, who has been our best shooter? not scorer in the likes of Malik, Bootsy, Hill, Hatten and so on. Truth is we have not had a spot on deadeye shooter, sure we have had guys like chucky mile high, sergio and willie shaw lol.

Well a better inside game i.e. Orlando, Chris and Jakarr getting bigger and smarter may equal better looks from outside and an increased % hopefully!!! just trying to be optimistic thats all, i can't give up on a team i've rooted for the last 30 yrs lol

Well a better inside game i.e. Orlando, Chris and Jakarr getting bigger and smarter may equal better looks from outside and an increased % hopefully!!! just trying to be optimistic thats all, i can't give up on a team i've rooted for the last 30 yrs lol

I agree with you that the inside game will get better

However, I don't think there is 1 player on the team who will improve his shooting that much. Harrison is the best shooter on the team and I'm skeptical he ever plays for SJU again.

Well since Mullin, who has been our best shooter? not scorer in the likes of Malik, Bootsy, Hill, Hatten and so on. Truth is we have not had a spot on deadeye shooter, sure we have had guys like chucky mile high, sergio and willie shaw lol.

I'm not talking about a bullseye shooter. I'm just asking for somebody who can hit an open jump shot.

Inside play and point guard play aren't going to suddenly make Branch, Greene, Bourgault, Pointer, and Garrett better shooters. Either you are born with it or you aren't and these guys certainly were not

Love the guys who complain that certain guys were ranked way to high and now complaining that guys who were not ranked at all can't help us. I have an idea why don't we just let the season play out next year, we were ranked 10th in the preseason this year and that was with sanchez playing. Next season our front court is set w Chris, Jakarr and Orlando. Phil/Jamel and D'lo is not a terrible back court add Gift,Dom, Amir, Jones, Felix,Marco and Max off the bench we should have a decent rotation. I do hope we add an X's and O's asst to help. Plus the trip to Europe should give us a nice chance to play against comp and get a feel for each other. Maybe i'm an optimist but i still feel like we are headed in the right direction. I just wish we could be a little more positive and support the program as we head into a "new" big east and we'll have an increase in revenue and exposure that can only help. We have had a couple of bad breaks over the past few seasons, i.e. Coach missing last season, losing Dunlap, losing Moe, decommit from Gathers and the mess with Pelle, losing out on recruits who we have never would of been involved with if it wasn't for Lavs like Wainwright, Nash, Mcullough and Lawerence.

I'm with you

Quote from: erickthered on March 13, 2013, 11:41:56 PM

Love the guys who complain that certain guys were ranked way to high and now complaining that guys who were not ranked at all can't help us. I have an idea why don't we just let the season play out next year, we were ranked 10th in the preseason this year and that was with sanchez playing. Next season our front court is set w Chris, Jakarr and Orlando. Phil/Jamel and D'lo is not a terrible back court add Gift,Dom, Amir, Jones, Felix,Marco and Max off the bench we should have a decent rotation. I do hope we add an X's and O's asst to help. Plus the trip to Europe should give us a nice chance to play against comp and get a feel for each other. Maybe i'm an optimist but i still feel like we are headed in the right direction. I just wish we could be a little more positive and support the program as we head into a "new" big east and we'll have an increase in revenue and exposure that can only help. We have had a couple of bad breaks over the past few seasons, i.e. Coach missing last season, losing Dunlap, losing Moe, decommit from Gathers and the mess with Pelle, losing out on recruits who we have never would of been involved with if it wasn't for Lavs like Wainwright, Nash, Mcullough and Lawerence.

2 things

If we go into next year with the same team, the team will again be unable to shoot the basketball. And if we ever want to see the program become a legitimate contender, they are going to need to fix that problem.

Yes, it is nice that we were involved with Martin, Wainwright, Lawrence and possibly Jordan. Fact is he hasn't landed any of them. So I'm not giving him a backslap for almost getting a high recruit. I understand he's of the better recruiters in the game, but let's not pretend this was a successful fall and spring of recruiting for our staff. We had our targets and so far have struck out on all of them.

I'm not drinking the Koolaid, I have plenty of criticism for the staff.   But I think you're off a little Doody.

1) You don't need shooting necessarily, just to be efficient offensively.   Who's the shooter on Marquette?  Vander Blue?  He's under 30% from beyond the arc, Cadougan is under 25%.   What great shooters does Louisville have this year?  Hancock is Marco, nothing more.   And Russ Smith is no better or worse than Dangelo.   
Point is you don't need a team of Mullins and Novacks to be competitive. 

2) I don't give the staff pats on the back for almost signing recruits either.   But this wasn't a failed recruiting season.   We're returning 13 guys.   At most we could've signed one or two recruits and 'suggested' some of our guys transfer. 
But even if Gift or Marco or Jones did transfer, what recruit wants to come to a team returning nearly all it's starters and 2nd string?   
this is just common sense.   Lawrence would have Sampson in front of him.  Jordan would be splitting time with branch Harrison and Greene. 
Yea, both guys would play if they came here, but it wouldn't be the type of playing time Moe or Sampson got their freshmen years, that showcased them. 

Love the guys who complain that certain guys were ranked way to high and now complaining that guys who were not ranked at all can't help us. I have an idea why don't we just let the season play out next year, we were ranked 10th in the preseason this year and that was with sanchez playing. Next season our front court is set w Chris, Jakarr and Orlando. Phil/Jamel and D'lo is not a terrible back court add Gift,Dom, Amir, Jones, Felix,Marco and Max off the bench we should have a decent rotation. I do hope we add an X's and O's asst to help. Plus the trip to Europe should give us a nice chance to play against comp and get a feel for each other. Maybe i'm an optimist but i still feel like we are headed in the right direction. I just wish we could be a little more positive and support the program as we head into a "new" big east and we'll have an increase in revenue and exposure that can only help. We have had a couple of bad breaks over the past few seasons, i.e. Coach missing last season, losing Dunlap, losing Moe, decommit from Gathers and the mess with Pelle, losing out on recruits who we have never would of been involved with if it wasn't for Lavs like Wainwright, Nash, Mcullough and Lawerence.

Be a little more positive? What else is there to be positive about after being the laughingstock of the Big East for all but 1 year in over a decade? We have ONE tourney win since 2000. 1. Uno. Single. In 13 years. Everything that could go wrong has gone wrong for us. Some people were predicting top 25 this year and at least 20 wins. We finished with 3 more wins from last year. We are a .500 team overall and a below .500 team in conference. Every time this team gives you hope it seems to respond by pouring a glass of ice cold water on you and yelling "SIKE! Just kidding, we won't be good...we are St. John's...what did you expect?". Then people complain about how we have so few fans. And how we are so negative. And why the team gets seemingly more older fan support than younger ones. I really am worried that I may never see this team be good ever again in my lifetime. The pinnacle of SJ success I have witnessed was making the NCAA tourney in 2011 and losing immediately. And then you guys wonder what all the negativity is about. Meanwhile, Nova, Pitt, Marquette, G'Town, etc. keep winning and setting themselves apart from us.

Quote from: RedStormyNight on March 13, 2013, 10:53:06 PM

Quote from: illscalpya4000 on March 13, 2013, 10:46:46 PM

Ashamed of the SJU product this season.
The brand is living off the 80's and it's 2013!!!!!!!


DO Something!
 

+100000000 Being a young Johnnies fan, it gets tiring having to hear stories from before you were born. It becomes tiring being told "well we used to be great" when all we have seen is failure. The truth is, if you were born in say 1987 or later, SJ has been absolutely pathetic while you have been a fan. And then you have the older guys wondering why the younger fans see no hope. Kinda hard when making the tourney alone seems like too hard of an accomplishment. New York is a "what have you done for me lately" city. Either do stuff NOW or fall into irrelevancy. SJ is doing the latter.

Quite the opposite-I am an older fan wondering why the younger fans are always so optimistic.

I can only speak for myself but there are a couple reasons why i'm optimistic.

1) I actually believe the program is headed in the right direction and think we have a chance to very god

2) Because i'm a fan and its alot more fun and less stressful to look at the bright side rather then all problems. Maybe I do it to a fault but I believe in these kids and coaches

Branch did not look "hobbled". Same issues we have had all year. can you come up with any more excuses for a pitiful performance.

Since he hurt his knee, he does not look the same...he shot well prior to the injury but just doesn't seem to have any lift on his jump shot since...

Didn't play well tonight but still far and away our best option at PG

Paultz/Celtics:  I was at the game tonight with a group of SJU fans.  Was I happy with how we played?  No.  Not in the least.  But I accept reality.  When a team is constructed such that it is going to rely upon a shooting guard (Harrison) to play 30 plus minutes a night, be the go-to-outside threat, and he gets kicked off the team, it is difficult to adjust at the end of the season and find an alternative that doesn't exist.

We have two guards who can create in the half court -- D-Lo and Branch.  The former didn't play tonight; the latter is playing with an injury.  You can minimize that all you want, but if you watched Branch earlier in the year as compared tonight, it was apples and oranges.  Sure he can still do things in the open court, but IMO his knee injury is clearly limiting him in the half court (look at his first game versus Nova compared to tonight). 

We don't have a legit low post threat.  That has been the case all year.  We could have dealt with that if D-lo was here and Branch was healthy, but that get magnifies when we don't have anyone who can create in the half court.

Going into next year, it is fair to criticize Lavin if we don't have answers to our biggest woes; lack of PG play, lack of a consistent outside shooting threat, lack of a low post threat.  I still think that a healthy Branch, a returning D-lo, Sanchez, and development of our current players help with those problems.  But if they don't, criticism is fair and deserved.

Let's think back to two years ago, when Lavin and Co. molded an average team into one that was ranked by year end and beat all of those top 10 teams.  That squad had one and a half true outside threats (Hardy, and a combination of either Horne or Kennedy depending upon the night).  We had a decent low post threat (JB), but far from ideal.  Yet we had a great season. 

I see no reason why a starting lineup of upper classmen -- Branch, Harrison, Dom, Sanchez and Jakar (or Sanchez, Jakar, and Obekpa) can't make us an NCAA team.  If D-Lo doesn't come back, and we don't get anyone to fill that void, then we'll have a problem barring any unforeseen change. 

As far as Marco goes, he was brought in to be a complimentary piece.  You put him with D-lo and Branch, and I think his deficiencies aren't nearly as glaring.

Is there a reason Marco and Branch can't be on the floor together?

Because you need atleast one shooter on the floor at all times.