NIT bracketology

So.. the Harrison fiasco is 100% Lavin's fault?  He caused it?  Kid takes no responsibility?

 Funny, because I seem to remember countless posts by certain posters calling out how kids get treated like gods and act like prima-donnas, and are allowed to get a way with it.  I guess that only holds water when the kids decide to go to schools that aren't St. John's. If they come here.. do whatever you please, as long as you play well?

Lavin a great recruiter, but he recruited Harrison, and yes, I hold the coach responsible for his decisions. This is Harrison's 3rd suspension. It appears as if Lavin keeps trying the same approach, and it's not working.

Is there more to this? I'm sure there is. I'm sure Lavin is keeping the facts confidential, but that leaves us only with the choice of supporting Lavin blindly.

At the end of day, it's none of our business what took place, but we are well within our right to judge the product as a whole. And this year's product has been poor overall. When everything was supposed to come together, it fell apart. That's on the coach.

We are what we are... a 5 seed in the NIT.

People who think we either have a "good chance" to win this tournament, or conversely, that most teams in this tournament would "smack us like rag dolls", obviously haven't been paying attention. 

We shouldn't be favored to win anything at this point.   But we're also an almost .500 team from a power conference, and at times we've looked good.  Winning a few games here isn't out of the question. 

  The NIT is a special tournament for the Redmen, always has been..We've won it more than any other team going back to its formation.

 It's not now the tournament it once was, before the NCAA became what it is now but, for many years it was more prestigious than the  NCAA.

 For many here on this and other boards,we once had a BB program that was known and respected throughout the USA.. And, we still were up to Louie's retirement..  Since then, we haven't been to very many NCAA'S or NIT'S.Count them on 2 hands.

 We've had nearly 2 decades of under performing teams, for reasons we all know..

So, while this wasn't a vintage year for us, being selected for the NIT is a great honor to be savored.. It might be the springboard to next season and beyond, where we get back to our heritage of being a proud and winning program.

 St. John's never got the best talent, except the Mullin, Berry, Jackson era but, our teams won under Frank McGuire, Coach Lapchick, Louie by playing hard and never quitting, on the Court or off. 3 HOF COACHES. Not many schools can claim that.

 We all want that back again! Maybe we won't win the NIT this year but, we're in it.

  It's a start..

  The NIT is a special tournament for the Redmen, always has been..We've won it more than any other team going back to its formation.

 It's not now the tournament it once was, before the NCAA became what it is now but, for many years it was more prestigious than the  NCAA.

 For many here on this and other boards,we once had a BB program that was known and respected throughout the USA.. And, we still were up to Louie's retirement..  Since then, we haven't been to very many NCAA'S or NIT'S.Count them on 2 hands.

 We've had nearly 2 decades of under performing teams, for reasons we all know..

So, while this wasn't a vintage year for us, being selected for the NIT is a great honor to be savored.. It might be the springboard to next season and beyond, where we get back to our heritage of being a proud and winning program.

 St. John's never got the best talent, except the Mullin, Berry, Jackson era but, our teams won under Frank McGuire, Coach Lapchick, Louie by playing hard and never quitting, on the Court or off. 3 HOF COACHES. Not many schools can claim that.

 We all want that back again! Maybe we won't win the NIT this year but, we're in it.

  It's a start..

It's all it is.  A start to what we hope and what I know the staff believes will be perennial stops in the NCAA's.

Nobody is saying they should be satisfied with the NIT but considering the youth and missing Sanchez and then losing Harrison at the end to still be playing in the NIT is not a bad consolation.

And SJU was projected in the bottom half of the BE this year mostly because of their youth.  Coaches and Media picked them 10th.  That historically is outside the NCAA's and in the NIT. 

Last year both Villanova and Pittsburgh were projected to be NCAA teams and had significant talent coming back.  Heck Pitt had the pre-season POY in Ashton Gibbs.  They both proceeded to go 5-13 and didn't even make the NIT.  It happens.

SJU in the grand scheme of things has not had that bad of a year.  They have not finished well and that is a problem. And next year none of us wants to be sitting here having this same conversation, we better not be from my point of view. 

But I don't see why people are complaining so much now.

Quote from: boo3 on March 18, 2013, 09:15:07 AM

So.. the Harrison fiasco is 100% Lavin's fault?  He caused it?  Kid takes no responsibility?

 Funny, because I seem to remember countless posts by certain posters calling out how kids get treated like gods and act like prima-donnas, and are allowed to get a way with it.  I guess that only holds water when the kids decide to go to schools that aren't St. John's. If they come here.. do whatever you please, as long as you play well?

Lavin a great recruiter, but he recruited Harrison, and yes, I hold the coach responsible for his decisions. This is Harrison's 3rd suspension. It appears as if Lavin keeps trying the same approach, and it's not working.

Is there more to this? I'm sure there is. I'm sure Lavin is keeping the facts confidential, but that leaves us only with the choice of supporting Lavin blindly.

At the end of day, it's none of our business what took place, but we are well within our right to judge the product as a whole. And this year's product has been poor overall. When everything was supposed to come together, it fell apart. That's on the coach.

What do you mean "when everything was suppose to come together?"

Quote from: slyfoxx1968 on March 18, 2013, 11:18:30 AM

  The NIT is a special tournament for the Redmen, always has been..We've won it more than any other team going back to its formation.

 It's not now the tournament it once was, before the NCAA became what it is now but, for many years it was more prestigious than the  NCAA.

 For many here on this and other boards,we once had a BB program that was known and respected throughout the USA.. And, we still were up to Louie's retirement..  Since then, we haven't been to very many NCAA'S or NIT'S.Count them on 2 hands.

 We've had nearly 2 decades of under performing teams, for reasons we all know..

So, while this wasn't a vintage year for us, being selected for the NIT is a great honor to be savored.. It might be the springboard to next season and beyond, where we get back to our heritage of being a proud and winning program.

 St. John's never got the best talent, except the Mullin, Berry, Jackson era but, our teams won under Frank McGuire, Coach Lapchick, Louie by playing hard and never quitting, on the Court or off. 3 HOF COACHES. Not many schools can claim that.

 We all want that back again! Maybe we won't win the NIT this year but, we're in it.

  It's a start..

It's all it is.  A start to what we hope and what I know the staff believes will be perennial stops in the NCAA's.

Nobody is saying they should be satisfied with the NIT but considering the youth and missing Sanchez and then losing Harrison at the end to still be playing in the NIT is not a bad consolation.

And SJU was projected in the bottom half of the BE this year mostly because of their youth.  Coaches and Media picked them 10th.  That historically is outside the NCAA's and in the NIT. 

Last year both Villanova and Pittsburgh were projected to be NCAA teams and had significant talent coming back.  Heck Pitt had the pre-season POY in Ashton Gibbs.  They both proceeded to go 5-13 and didn't even make the NIT.  It happens.

SJU in the grand scheme of things has not had that bad of a year.  They have not finished well and that is a problem. And next year none of us wants to be sitting here having this same conversation, we better not be from my point of view. 

But I don't see why people are complaining so much now.

Because we are basically a .500 team with a cupcake laden OOC schedule? Because we lost 6 of our last 7 games to end the season? If we don't win big next year with everyone back, I'm just going to assume we have a hex on us. If we miss the tournament yet again, we should get a priest who knows how to perform house exorcisms, and have him go building to building on campus cleansing each place.

He can go to CA, and MSG and set the demons free that are holding back our program. Some teams even if once great can seem to develop a losing atmosphere and culture, the proverbial black cloud. We are one of those teams. What is it the demons want? Is it for a medium sized SJ shirt to be burned in Carnesseca Plaza? Is it to sacrifice Ron Artest for changing his name? Maybe Lavin has to sage the locker room and exorcise Harrison? I don't know.

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2013, 10:41:30 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 18, 2013, 09:15:07 AM

So.. the Harrison fiasco is 100% Lavin's fault?  He caused it?  Kid takes no responsibility?

 Funny, because I seem to remember countless posts by certain posters calling out how kids get treated like gods and act like prima-donnas, and are allowed to get a way with it.  I guess that only holds water when the kids decide to go to schools that aren't St. John's. If they come here.. do whatever you please, as long as you play well?

Lavin a great recruiter, but he recruited Harrison, and yes, I hold the coach responsible for his decisions. This is Harrison's 3rd suspension. It appears as if Lavin keeps trying the same approach, and it's not working.

Is there more to this? I'm sure there is. I'm sure Lavin is keeping the facts confidential, but that leaves us only with the choice of supporting Lavin blindly.

At the end of day, it's none of our business what took place, but we are well within our right to judge the product as a whole. And this year's product has been poor overall. When everything was supposed to come together, it fell apart. That's on the coach.

What do you mean "when everything was suppose to come together?"

- coach healthy
- a full roster of Lavin recruits
- 4/5 starters returning with significant experience

NIT worth it story; 

“@ECoastBias: NIT brings people together. FGCU's Andy Enfield went on a date w/ his future model wife to a St. John's NIT game. http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/apr/29/fgcu-basketball-coach-enfield-model-amanda-marcum/”

NIT worth it story; 

“@ECoastBias: NIT brings people together. FGCU's Andy Enfield went on a date w/ his future model wife to a St. John's NIT game. http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2011/apr/29/fgcu-basketball-coach-enfield-model-amanda-marcum/”

Him him as coach.

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 18, 2013, 11:43:43 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2013, 10:41:30 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 18, 2013, 09:15:07 AM

So.. the Harrison fiasco is 100% Lavin's fault?  He caused it?  Kid takes no responsibility?

 Funny, because I seem to remember countless posts by certain posters calling out how kids get treated like gods and act like prima-donnas, and are allowed to get a way with it.  I guess that only holds water when the kids decide to go to schools that aren't St. John's. If they come here.. do whatever you please, as long as you play well?

Lavin a great recruiter, but he recruited Harrison, and yes, I hold the coach responsible for his decisions. This is Harrison's 3rd suspension. It appears as if Lavin keeps trying the same approach, and it's not working.

Is there more to this? I'm sure there is. I'm sure Lavin is keeping the facts confidential, but that leaves us only with the choice of supporting Lavin blindly.

At the end of day, it's none of our business what took place, but we are well within our right to judge the product as a whole. And this year's product has been poor overall. When everything was supposed to come together, it fell apart. That's on the coach.

What do you mean "when everything was suppose to come together?"

- coach healthy
- a full roster of Lavin recruits
- 4/5 starters returning with significant experience

Perhaps my boon companion Poison was referring to the legend that Lavin's teams come together at the end of the year. As opposed to losing out.

Quote from: Poison on March 18, 2013, 10:41:30 AM

Quote from: boo3 on March 18, 2013, 09:15:07 AM

So.. the Harrison fiasco is 100% Lavin's fault?  He caused it?  Kid takes no responsibility?

 Funny, because I seem to remember countless posts by certain posters calling out how kids get treated like gods and act like prima-donnas, and are allowed to get a way with it.  I guess that only holds water when the kids decide to go to schools that aren't St. John's. If they come here.. do whatever you please, as long as you play well?

Lavin a great recruiter, but he recruited Harrison, and yes, I hold the coach responsible for his decisions. This is Harrison's 3rd suspension. It appears as if Lavin keeps trying the same approach, and it's not working.

Is there more to this? I'm sure there is. I'm sure Lavin is keeping the facts confidential, but that leaves us only with the choice of supporting Lavin blindly.

At the end of day, it's none of our business what took place, but we are well within our right to judge the product as a whole. And this year's product has been poor overall. When everything was supposed to come together, it fell apart. That's on the coach.

What do you mean "when everything was suppose to come together?"

The point of every season is to be at your best at the end of the season.

This game is an opportunity to put on a good show for Rysheed Jordan. Hopefully Jordan goes to the game and sees how he can make an impact right away.

This game is an opportunity to put on a good show for Rysheed Jordan. Hopefully Jordan goes to the game and sees how he can make an impact right away.

He has his own game that night.

Re Coach Lavin;

In three years, he has taken St Johns to the NCAA and now NIT. Last person to do that was the Jarvi...2002 NCAA and 2003 NIT? Either way, it was ten years ago. All things considered from a macro-view, Lavin is doing well and the program is moving in the right direction.

Re Coach Lavin;

In three years, he has taken St Johns to the NCAA and now NIT. Last person to do that was the Jarvi...2002 NCAA and 2003 NIT? Either way, it was ten years ago. All things considered from a macro-view, Lavin is doing well and the program is moving in the right direction.

Brain, don't dampen the spirit around here.  You have to pretend that this is Norm 2 and wonder why the same reporters who picked St John's to finish the season where they ended up are not bashing the coach.

Quote from: braintrust on March 18, 2013, 06:35:33 PM

Re Coach Lavin;

In three years, he has taken St Johns to the NCAA and now NIT. Last person to do that was the Jarvi...2002 NCAA and 2003 NIT? Either way, it was ten years ago. All things considered from a macro-view, Lavin is doing well and the program is moving in the right direction.

Brain, don't dampen the spirit around here.  You have to pretend that this is Norm 2 and wonder why the same reporters who picked St John's to finish the season where they ended up are not bashing the coach.

Failure is acceptable, when failure is expected? 

I don't disagree with your optimism necessarily, but the logic behind that statement is what gets organizations in trouble in the first place.   

Failure would be pre season favorites to win BE and end up where we did. 

Being picked 10th and making NIT, I wouldn't categorize as failure. 

Was the last 5 games disappointing? No doubt.  Is the season a total failure?  I wouldn't go that far. 

^^ despite my silly pre season optimism of  20 wins. 

Failure would be pre season favorites to win BE and end up where we did. 

Being picked 10th and making NIT, I wouldn't categorize as failure. 

Was the last 5 games disappointing? No doubt.  Is the season a total failure?  I wouldn't go that far.

Season was disappointing. But, it's hard to call it a failure. I mean, we're in the same tourney as Kentucky 

^^ despite my silly pre season optimism of  20 wins.

With or without Sanchez?

And you can still be silly - still a shot at 21 wins