Barkley Cook Discussion from Rysheed's Thread

Cook is also four years younger than Barkley.  It makes sense that Cook's playing career would end after Barkley's.

By the same token you're comparing Barkley as a 20 yo frosh to Cook at 18.

I'm not saying Cook > Barkley. It's a tough call. It'd be an easier judgment if Cook had played with someone other than bums.

No doubt the play of the 98 and 99 teams skews the outcome as well. EB's career at SJ was a success. Cook's was a failure.

I will take Cook here - He made one of the worst early entry decisions of All Time but if he had stayed one more year, he might have been a lottery pick.

Barkley was always surrounded by super talent - evne in high school.

Omar is still making money playing basketball - Barkley is an assitant at CTK the last time I checked.

PMG, you think Omar's career would've turned out any different had he stayed another year?   I really don't think it would have.
Yea, he made a mistake in coming out too early because he could've gotten an education for free and would've achieved more success in college (especially if he played with Hatten).  But he got a number of chances to prove himself, and he just could never shoot well enough to stick as an nba point guard.   And unless you have Rondo-like explosiveness, pgs need at least an above average shot.   Omar never developed that.   How would that have changed?   
Whether he was a second round pick in '01, or a first round pick two years later he would've been exposed and ended up in Europe either way.   At least in my opinion.   
And whatever year he came out in, I don't think he would've ever been a lottery pick and had his contract guaranteed.

I think it depends on what you use to measure their value. Cook was a gifted passer, best we had since Jackson. Barkley was a better shooter and defender. I think Cook had the higher ceiling, imo. Many people get turned off by Cook's attitude, but he was really, really good and he played on a garbage team. Cook was the best player on the floor many nights. Barkley was good, but Cook had that wow factor.

Cook had an Nba ready body as a freshmen.  Barkley drove a nicer suv.

Quote from: boo3 on April 22, 2013, 09:14:24 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 21, 2013, 11:43:54 PM

Quote from: boo3 on April 21, 2013, 11:19:40 PM

Barkley was much better than Cook.. Not even close IMO.  Erick brought it from day one and he was a winner.. Cook was overhyped and only about Omar. He played for name on back of jersey, not on the front.

Pretty harsh don't you think? Barkley had an NBA lottery pick playing SF, and another NBA draft pick coming off the bench. Cook had Willie Shaw, Alpha Bangura, Sharif Fordham, Abe Keita, Mohammed Diakite, Anthony Glover, Reggie Jessie & Jack Wolfinger.

Not the same group of guys to get the ball to, except Cook was able somehow rack up the assists. How is that the mark of a greedy player?

Jordan, on the other hand, will have Harrison, Sampson and Sanchez, and a pretty good supporting cast. The only question in my mind about his success is whether we field the team that all of us expect to. If he has several great players to share the ball with, opponents won't be able to key on just one player.

  Not harsh at all. It is the truth. Despite Omar's assists I never viewed him as anything other than a kid whose head was too big for his own good.  Talented?  Of course he was.  My lasting impression of Omar is him making faces and gestures at teammates when they dropped a pass or missed a layup and prevented him from another assist..

 So , I guess, I do agree with your point about the talent around them. I still don't think of that as an excuse to act like a punk..  just my $0.02

I guess I don't recall him behaving that way. I remember him putting the team on his back and willing us to wins. Alpha Bangura transferred his with fanfare. He couldn't shoot or put it on the floor, and he never passed. Diakite was a small fraction of what we expected him to be.

Cook was the only player who was ready to play on that team. Glover was pretty good, but he was inconsistent. Jessie regressed. Cuffe was a freshman, and I thought Cook made him look pretty good.

Omar got the ball to Shaw when he was in good shape to get a shot off. Omar flat out said , this team not winning, I'm leaving. We all would of liked seeing Omar play with Hatten. Might not of worked great. Hatten at his best with the ball in his hands. Hatten would have tried his best to make it work.

I will take Cook here - He made one of the worst early entry decisions of All Time but if he had stayed one more year, he might have been a lottery pick.

Barkley was always surrounded by super talent - evne in high school.

Omar is still making money playing basketball - Barkley is an assitant at CTK the last time I checked.

What does their professional success have to do with their success at St.John's? By that logic Cedric Jackson was better than both of them.

I think it depends on what you use to measure their value. Cook was a gifted passer, best we had since Jackson. Barkley was a better shooter and defender. I think Cook had the higher ceiling, imo. Many people get turned off by Cook's attitude, but he was really, really good and he played on a garbage team. Cook was the best player on the floor many nights. Barkley was good, but Cook had that wow factor.

More or less agree with this. Barkley was a better player for us, but I think Cook had more upside.

had barkley stayed, we might be comparing him with mark jackson.

cook was a stat sheet stuffer...but his teams post st john's virtually never won. sadly, other than ingram, we haven't had anyone as good at the point since he left. you might point out a combo guard or two...but we're talking pure point guard here.

had barkley stayed, we might be comparing him with mark jackson.

cook was a stat sheet stuffer...but his teams post st john's virtually never won. sadly, other than ingram, we haven't had anyone as good at the point since he left. you might point out a combo guard or two...but we're talking pure point guard here.

You though Ingram was as good as Cook?

ingram is what you get when you take a mcdonald's all american and provide him with no coaching.

had barkley stayed, we might be comparing him with mark jackson.

cook was a stat sheet stuffer...but his teams post st john's virtually never won. sadly, other than ingram, we haven't had anyone as good at the point since he left. you might point out a combo guard or two...but we're talking pure point guard here.

Ingram was nowhere near as good as Cook. Ingram was a mid major guard. The BE ate him alive.

Agreed. It's not even close.

Don't anybody dare say a bad word about Ingram.  Arguably the most important player in the history of Sju basketball.

 Quite true.

Don't anybody dare say a bad word about Ingram.  Arguably the most important player in the history of Sju basketball.

Is he a camera man now?

Quote from: Marillac on April 23, 2013, 11:30:25 AM

Cook is also four years younger than Barkley.  It makes sense that Cook's playing career would end after Barkley's.

By the same token you're comparing Barkley as a 20 yo frosh to Cook at 18.

I'm not saying Cook > Barkley. It's a tough call. It'd be an easier judgment if Cook had played with someone other than bums.

No doubt the play of the 98 and 99 teams skews the outcome as well. EB's career at SJ was a success. Cook's was a failure.

All true.  EB's prep year at MCI probably gave him a big boost after high school.  Winning always skews things in these comparisons. 

Quote from: pmg911 on April 23, 2013, 11:20:37 AM

I will take Cook here - He made one of the worst early entry decisions of All Time but if he had stayed one more year, he might have been a lottery pick.

Barkley was always surrounded by super talent - evne in high school.

Omar is still making money playing basketball - Barkley is an assitant at CTK the last time I checked.

PMG, you think Omar's career would've turned out any different had he stayed another year?   I really don't think it would have.
Yea, he made a mistake in coming out too early because he could've gotten an education for free and would've achieved more success in college (especially if he played with Hatten).  But he got a number of chances to prove himself, and he just could never shoot well enough to stick as an nba point guard.   And unless you have Rondo-like explosiveness, pgs need at least an above average shot.   Omar never developed that.   How would that have changed?   
Whether he was a second round pick in '01, or a first round pick two years later he would've been exposed and ended up in Europe either way.   At least in my opinion.   
And whatever year he came out in, I don't think he would've ever been a lottery pick and had his contract guaranteed.

College affords you the opportunity to develop w/less pressure...IMO he would have come out out more equipped for the professional ranks had he stayed...