BE HONEST

Quote from: DFF6 on September 20, 2013, 03:40:57 PM

Not thrilled but would not complain about it. 

Could have just voted if that is the extent of your commentary. (SMILEY FACE)!

OK then wiseguy ;-), to elaborate: what SHU did was legal, but maybe not the best thing from a setting bad precedent/screwing up coaching staff chemistry standpoint.  However, they got their man, and he is a big deal for that program, or most any other program in the country.  So, if we employed the same tactic to land IW, I wouldn't like the bad precedent/coaching staff morass aspects it would have caused, but I would have loved to have IW on this team, as would pretty much everyone else on this board.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on September 20, 2013, 05:28:04 PM

Quote from: simplyred on September 20, 2013, 05:09:41 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on September 20, 2013, 03:26:19 PM

In our situation I wouldn't have been too happy with it. Norm years I would have applauded it.

I agree to an extent.  In the Norm years I would have held my nose and not complained about the stink.  But you have to keep in mind that in the Norm years, we were as desperate as SHU is now.  Also, our coaching staff was not so great.  Tiny might have actually helped.

It sounds like you agree to the full extent.

I wouldn't say I would have applauded it.

That's fair. The reason I said that was because what you alluded to, we were desperate. Norm pulling this move would have showed that he had some creativity. His straight and narrow approach is what kept him his job for a while but it didn't exactly please the fans.

I think Norm could have had Lance had he given them what they wanted.  I admire the integrity although I didn't enjoy the losing.

Quote from: uwsfan on September 20, 2013, 04:59:30 PM

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 04:27:07 PM

Even putting aside the misguided notion that SJU is on some much higher plane of college basketball than SHU, that whole argument that it is ok for SHU but not us doesn't match history.

St. Johns: 7th All-Time winningest program in college bb history (was as high as 5th before the decade long lul).
When people talk about SJu, they remember prolonged  periods of being very good (albiet long ago).

Seton Hall: No tradiition. have always sucked, save a few random years here and there (which every program at least has).
SH is an A-10 school that is only even in the BE because they got here before Rutgers.

And i personally think it is only ok when the HS coach being hired  truely has talent and is seen as a guy who will effectively contribute for years, and/or if the guy being recruited is a once in a generation Lebron/Durant (Whitehead not even close)

That.  On both accounts.  SJU has more history than SHU with a better current roster.  Better then, better now.  I'm not sure which part of that would lead you to believe that we are not on a higher plane; let alone refer to those of us who acknowledge that fact as having "misguided notions."

As to the latter, if that were an option I would have selected it.

I am guessing you are in your late 50's early 60's.
If you want to hold on to the notion that SJU is still thought of as a big time program I wont burst your bubble for the same reason I don't tell my son there is no Santa Claus.
The last 10 years though SHU has been a better program than us. That is really not disputable. 10 years isn't a down period. That is pretty substantial. Hopefully we can get back close to where we were but it is not a given and the longer it takes the more a darker reality will eventually come to play.
This year we should be better than SHU. How about the year after when they have Whitehead and we lose Sanchez and probably(hopefully-he plays well enough to go pro we will have been in tourney) Sampson?

Please stop.  Please stop.  We understand your position.  Pls stop.

WASJU, putting all else aside, Willard and Lavin were hire the same year.  Do you think we have been on the same plane (not just W-L (but national profile and perception) in the last 3 years?

WASJU, putting all else aside, Willard and Lavin were hire the same year.  Do you think we have been on the same plane (not just W-L (but national profile and perception) in the last 3 years?

If Willard were the coach instead of Lavin all hope would be gone. I am not comparing coaches or histories. 10 years is a long time and in the last 10 years we have stunk. I  still think Lavin can get us back to the Louie years. We do need to start making tourneys quickly though. Real quick. I believe we make the tourney this year.  But we have too. Next year could be a problem and if for whatever reason we don't make it this year we are now on another streak of not getting in going into a rebuilding year. This is a HUUUUUUGE year for the program.

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

Please stop.  Please stop.  We understand your position.  Pls stop.

I find this topic fascinating. If you don't, ignore it. My only disagreement with people is labeling SHU totally beneath us. As far as the Whitehead recruitment I think the topic is good debating material. You probably prefer the very riveting "can't wait for the season to start" posts.

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

We lose a forward and an undersized Center/PF. That's all. We should be a tourney this year, and next. A backcourt that has Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be exceptional.

Quote from: DFF6 on September 20, 2013, 08:49:45 PM

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

We lose a forward and an undersized Center/PF. That's all. We should be a tourney this year, and next. A backcourt that has Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be exceptional.

Or otherwise known as two of our best 4 or 5 players.

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2013, 08:56:20 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on September 20, 2013, 08:49:45 PM

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

We lose a forward and an undersized Center/PF. That's all. We should be a tourney this year, and next. A backcourt that has Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be exceptional.

Or otherwise known as two of our best 4 or 5 players.

You think Gift and Sanchez are our two best 4 or 5 players? Gift was so last as upperclassman 2 years ago, that an 18 year old small forward started BE games over him. Gift has some skill, but his basketball instincts are the worst on the team. Sanchez hasn't shown me anything yet, except patience. 9 ppg in Europe means he's no world beater. We are losing two role players.

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 08:58:36 PM

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2013, 08:56:20 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on September 20, 2013, 08:49:45 PM

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

We lose a forward and an undersized Center/PF. That's all. We should be a tourney this year, and next. A backcourt that has Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be exceptional.

Or otherwise known as two of our best 4 or 5 players.

You think Gift and Sanchez are our two best 4 or 5 players? Gift was so last as upperclassman 2 years ago, that an 18 year old small forward started BE games over him. Gift has some skill, but his basketball instincts are the worst on the team. Sanchez hasn't shown me anything yet, except patience. 9 ppg in Europe means he's no world beater. We are losing two role players.

I was and thought you were too, referring to Sampson and Sanchez. I am going on the premise that we make the tourney have a nice year and Sampson is a 1st round pick.

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2013, 09:02:19 PM

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 08:58:36 PM

Quote from: Poison on September 20, 2013, 08:56:20 PM

Quote from: DFF6 on September 20, 2013, 08:49:45 PM

Can't argue with this. But I think next year's team will also be tourney worthy. We will have Dom, Branch, Greene  and D'lo all as seniors, and I think Hooper too. If Obekpa stays, he should be really good. C Jones and Balamou should hopefully be better too.  And if Jordan is still here, I think we can have two really good years in a row.

We lose a forward and an undersized Center/PF. That's all. We should be a tourney this year, and next. A backcourt that has Harrison, Jordan and Branch should be exceptional.

Or otherwise known as two of our best 4 or 5 players.

You think Gift and Sanchez are our two best 4 or 5 players? Gift was so last as upperclassman 2 years ago, that an 18 year old small forward started BE games over him. Gift has some skill, but his basketball instincts are the worst on the team. Sanchez hasn't shown me anything yet, except patience. 9 ppg in Europe means he's no world beater. We are losing two role players.

I was and thought you were too, referring to Sampson and Sanchez. I am going on the premise that we make the tourney have a nice year and Sampson is a 1st round pick.

Sampson isn't going to be a first round pick. Not in 2014, not in 2015 and not in 2016. He certainly deserves all of the great things he has coming to him playing pro ball somewhere.  He has not gained muscle, and I have not heard anything about improved rebounding and shooting range. In addition, he doesn't pass the ball well enough for a guy that would most likely have to play the 3 in the league.

When Moe left, he could face the basket from anywhere, he could score from all over and he was one of the best rebounders in the league. Sampson has a tremendous amount to work to do just to get on the NBA radar.

But getting back to your point, worst case scenario, Jordan, Harrison, Pointer, Obekpa and one of Jones, Hooper or a Juco PF. That's 4 upperclassman capable of making All BE 1st team. You got that you can start Albert Richardson.

Kob gives you one compliment  and compares you to the most entertaining poster in fun and it sets you off spewing more nonsense than my wife after drinking a  bottle of wine. Take a breath. Christ

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 04:27:07 PM

according to Fun

"According to the Times-Picayune's Josh Peter, in the summer of 2000 Vivian Harper, mother of Duke incoming freshman point guard Chris Duhon, moved from her home in Slidell, La., to a two-bedroom apartment in Durham, N.C. She was given a job at a firm called NCM Capital Management Company, a billion-dollar money management firm owned by a man named Maceo Sloan, among whose possessions is an autographed basketball signed by the 1991 Duke championship team, Coach K's first title squad. Workers at the firm say the job was never posted. They also allege that Walker was given a substantial raise within four months.

There's more. Peters also reports that Carlos Boozer Sr., the then-unemployed father of former Duke star Carlos Boozer, was given a job at GlaxoSmithKline, a pharmaceutical company owned by Robert Ingram, who is a close friend of Coach K's. In order to take the job, the elder Boozer relocated from Alaska."


The Boston Globe
April 6, 2003, Sunday ,
FIRST EDITION

Interesting story...reaffirms fact that this stuff goes on all over the place and frankly what SHU did was benign compared to the scenarios that are implied in the story

In our situation I wouldn't have been too happy with it. Norm years I would have applauded it.

Bingo.
Now, if this was a top 10 center, I'd be for it!

I saw the Hall lose the national championship by one Rumeal Robinson free throw in overtime.  Never seen us that close.  We've no reason whatsoever to be looking down our noses at the Hall.

I am guessing you are in your late 50's early 60's.
If you want to hold on to the notion that SJU is still thought of as a big time program I wont burst your bubble for the same reason I don't tell my son there is no Santa Claus.
The last 10 years though SHU has been a better program than us. That is really not disputable. 10 years isn't a down period. That is pretty substantial. Hopefully we can get back close to where we were but it is not a given and the longer it takes the more a darker reality will eventually come to play.
This year we should be better than SHU. How about the year after when they have Whitehead and we lose Sanchez and probably(hopefully-he plays well enough to go pro we will have been in tourney) Sampson?

I'm 28, but I'll take that as a compliment I suppose.

SJU doesn't have to be considered a big time program to be bigger than SHU which was your point that I was arguing.

Your 10 year position is somewhat arbitrary.  There's our overall history, of which ours is stronger; and there's the current roster compilation, of which ours is stronger.  I could pick any random group of years and make a case that this team is better than that team (i.e. Iona has had a better team the last two seasons, therefore they are a better program than SJU). 
If you would like it to be considered relevant, let's make it 15 years and your case is broken as the previous five years went like this: 3 NCAA appearances and an NIT finals appearance for SJU, compared to 3 NIT and 1 NCAA appearance for Seton Hall in those same 5 years.

My point is, while not wholly evident by looking at a small sample size of a specific decade, St. John's has been a stronger program historically (1724 wins vs. 1394 wins) and is currently the stronger program as the rosters are currently constituted.  Maybe the issue is our differing opinion of how to judge a program?

Quote from: we are sju on September 20, 2013, 07:30:09 PM

I am guessing you are in your late 50's early 60's.
If you want to hold on to the notion that SJU is still thought of as a big time program I wont burst your bubble for the same reason I don't tell my son there is no Santa Claus.
The last 10 years though SHU has been a better program than us. That is really not disputable. 10 years isn't a down period. That is pretty substantial. Hopefully we can get back close to where we were but it is not a given and the longer it takes the more a darker reality will eventually come to play.
This year we should be better than SHU. How about the year after when they have Whitehead and we lose Sanchez and probably(hopefully-he plays well enough to go pro we will have been in tourney) Sampson?

I'm 28, but I'll take that as a compliment I suppose.

SJU doesn't have to be considered a big time program to be bigger than SHU which was your point that I was arguing.

Your 10 year position is somewhat arbitrary.  There's our overall history, of which ours is stronger; and there's the current roster compilation, of which ours is stronger.  I could pick any random group of years and make a case that this team is better than that team (i.e. Iona has had a better team the last two seasons, therefore they are a better program than SJU). 
If you would like it to be considered relevant, let's make it 15 years and your case is broken as the previous five years went like this: 3 NCAA appearances and an NIT finals appearance for SJU, compared to 3 NIT and 1 NCAA appearance for Seton Hall in those same 5 years.

My point is, while not wholly evident by looking at a small sample size of a specific decade, St. John's has been a stronger program historically (1724 wins vs. 1394 wins) and is currently the stronger program as the rosters are currently constituted.  Maybe the issue is our differing opinion of how to judge a program?

Well said...  On top of that, we didn't hire Tiny Morton, Oliver Antigua and  the previously fired Freddy Hill just to land recruits.  Glad we don't need to and that our coach doesn't willingly sell out because he knows he is unable to land talent without prostituting himself.  Willard is a pretty good coach, but a guy I've lost all respect for.

We are SJU, you asked us to be honest. Maybe I don't like it because of the perception of it all.  I know these sports have dirty business going on.  I know that the fans don't even know the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what truly happens behind the scenes.  Frankly , what Willard is doing IMO is worse because he is being manipulated and walked over.  Either that or he's too stupid to know that he comes across as a basketball tramp.  I don't pretend we don't do anything behind the scenes, because I don't know what is done, but Willard has the red light on and is sitting in the window.   I know it's legal in Amsterdam, yet it doesn't make you classy because it's legal.  Get my drift?