Coach Lavin on Rysheed

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/resurgent-st-johns-has-added-freshman-pg-rysheed-jordan-to-a-team-with-5-starters-back/2013/10/30/058a2450-4199-11e3-b028-de922d7a3f47_story.html

“He’s the best guard, the most explosive guard I’ve had in college and that includes Baron Davis,” Lavin said of his former star at UCLA. “He has made everybody better by the way he practices. He is going to be a very special player.”


Coach Lavin setting pretty lofty expectations for Jordan before the first game of his career is played - let hope he is right.

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Tough for a freshman to surprise anyone.  Its about to be 2014.  The internet has made it nearly impossible for people to slip thru the cracks and if even they do message boards like this exist to hype up people.

But back to Jordan those are crazy lofty expectations.

Quote from: Poison on October 31, 2013, 10:29:42 AM

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Tough for a freshman to surprise anyone.  Its about to be 2014.  The internet has made it nearly impossible for people to slip thru the cracks and if even they do message boards like this exist to hype up people.

But back to Jordan those are crazy lofty expectations.

Lopez was Sidd Finch before the internet was much more than email. I know Lavin is a master marketer. But I think with a recruit like this, it's better to actively try and bring him along slowly.

“He’s the best guard, the most explosive guard I’ve had in college and that includes Baron Davis,”

Don't get me wrong, I love Lavin, but last year Marco Bourgault was "the best pure shooter I've ever coached". We know how that worked out. I think it would be a lot smarter to hype the program's philosophy, not the players. If the program is successful, the players will be recognized when it comes times to make money as a pro.

Izzo was quoted this morning on Bo Ryan. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about Wisconsin winning 25 games, because that's simply what they do. What's our philosophy as a team? If we land in ND, and we don't know what that philosophy is yet, we'll lose that game. The last time they beat us, if anyone recalls, they did so as a team, shutting down our one man band. (Hatten)

Quote from: Moose on October 31, 2013, 11:20:24 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 31, 2013, 10:29:42 AM

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Tough for a freshman to surprise anyone.  Its about to be 2014.  The internet has made it nearly impossible for people to slip thru the cracks and if even they do message boards like this exist to hype up people.

But back to Jordan those are crazy lofty expectations.

Lopez was Sidd Finch before the internet was much more than email. I know Lavin is a master marketer. But I think with a recruit like this, it's better to actively try and bring him along slowly.

“He’s the best guard, the most explosive guard I’ve had in college and that includes Baron Davis,”

Don't get me wrong, I love Lavin, but last year Marco Bourgault was "the best pure shooter I've ever coached". We know how that worked out. I think it would be a lot smarter to hype the program's philosophy, not the players. If the program is successful, the players will be recognized when it comes times to make money as a pro.

Izzo was quoted this morning on Bo Ryan. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about Wisconsin winning 25 games, because that's simply what they do. What's our philosophy as a team? If we land in ND, and we don't know what that philosophy is yet, we'll lose that game. The last time they beat us, if anyone recalls, they did so as a team, shutting our one man band. (Hatten)

I agree with everything you said.  I thought when Rysheed wasn't talking to the media it was a sign of bringing him along slowly.  But since Tip Off where Jordan was the primary focus of the interview its been a lot of Jordan chatter.

Quote from: Poison on October 31, 2013, 11:29:01 AM

Quote from: Moose on October 31, 2013, 11:20:24 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 31, 2013, 10:29:42 AM

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Tough for a freshman to surprise anyone.  Its about to be 2014.  The internet has made it nearly impossible for people to slip thru the cracks and if even they do message boards like this exist to hype up people.

But back to Jordan those are crazy lofty expectations.

Lopez was Sidd Finch before the internet was much more than email. I know Lavin is a master marketer. But I think with a recruit like this, it's better to actively try and bring him along slowly.

“He’s the best guard, the most explosive guard I’ve had in college and that includes Baron Davis,”

Don't get me wrong, I love Lavin, but last year Marco Bourgault was "the best pure shooter I've ever coached". We know how that worked out. I think it would be a lot smarter to hype the program's philosophy, not the players. If the program is successful, the players will be recognized when it comes times to make money as a pro.

Izzo was quoted this morning on Bo Ryan. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about Wisconsin winning 25 games, because that's simply what they do. What's our philosophy as a team? If we land in ND, and we don't know what that philosophy is yet, we'll lose that game. The last time they beat us, if anyone recalls, they did so as a team, shutting our one man band. (Hatten)

I agree with everything you said.  I thought when Rysheed wasn't talking to the media it was a sign of bringing him along slowly.  But since Tip Off where Jordan was the primary focus of the interview its been a lot of Jordan chatter.

Sanchez is the real story here. That's the human interest we need. Jordan seems like a great kid, but not so different than many other well mannered, uber talented freshman.

What Sanchez has been through in his life, and regarding the dispicable people at the NCAA is captivating. He deserves the attention, and at 25, he'll handle it well.

He's waited his turn, and then some.

The quotes from Lavin and then especially Greene regarding Jordan's defense are awesome to see. That and the new rule changes are really making me rethink what he can offer this season.  I really didn't expect him to buy into the defensive end so soon. 

Lavin finally getting back at Davis for his crack at him about not being able to coach

The quotes from Lavin and then especially Greene regarding Jordan's defense are awesome to see. That and the new rule changes are really making me rethink what he can offer this season.  I really didn't expect him to buy into the defensive end so soon. 

It's the hype season. Let's not go crazy. Lavin is a salesman, and we need to sell tickets, encourage high school players to think about us, and get everyone excited for the season.

What else would he say. "Yea, I've had a lot of rated point guard recruits over the years, and Jordan is probably somewhere in the middle". Probably closer to the truth, but it's pretty boring. That's something Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun and Rick Pitino would say. And they'd be brutally honest because they don't need to sell anymore.

Coach saying lofty things about his players also puts them on the NBA radar, and that's why they' came to play for him in the first place.  Scouts were gonna watch  Jordan anyway, but when Lavin says things like that, then Jordan will start showing up on nba prospect lists for the draft.   Even if it doesn't have a substantive effect on his draft status, now the player thinks Lavin is doing all he can to help him along. 

Words don't bother me at this point.  Lavin could tell us Hooper is better than Mullin, and I would just shrug.  I expect the hyperbole.   
If we produce on the court this  season , I don't care if coach tries to convince people that the sky is green. 

Quote from: Moose on October 31, 2013, 11:20:24 AM

Quote from: Poison on October 31, 2013, 10:29:42 AM

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Tough for a freshman to surprise anyone.  Its about to be 2014.  The internet has made it nearly impossible for people to slip thru the cracks and if even they do message boards like this exist to hype up people.

But back to Jordan those are crazy lofty expectations.

Lopez was Sidd Finch before the internet was much more than email. I know Lavin is a master marketer. But I think with a recruit like this, it's better to actively try and bring him along slowly.

“He’s the best guard, the most explosive guard I’ve had in college and that includes Baron Davis,”

Don't get me wrong, I love Lavin, but last year Marco Bourgault was "the best pure shooter I've ever coached". We know how that worked out. I think it would be a lot smarter to hype the program's philosophy, not the players. If the program is successful, the players will be recognized when it comes times to make money as a pro.

Izzo was quoted this morning on Bo Ryan. I don't recall the exact quote, but he said something about Wisconsin winning 25 games, because that's simply what they do. What's our philosophy as a team? If we land in ND, and we don't know what that philosophy is yet, we'll lose that game. The last time they beat us, if anyone recalls, they did so as a team, shutting down our one man band. (Hatten)

I feel like I have a sense of comfort in interpreting Lavin's quotes. I see a big difference between hyping up an aspect of a player's game aka Hardy and Bourgault to inspire confidence vs. Coach making a huge statement like he did when he labeled Harkless the most complete freshman he ever coached before Moe even played a single exhibition game.

This feels a lot more like the Moe analysis is to me.  Also, the way we defend three point attempts could have led to Bourgault looking a lot better in practice emulating the key shooter of the opponent.

Coach has made a habit of saying some of our players are the most this and that that he has ever coached. Meanwhile he made 5 sweet 16s and an elite 8 at UCLA and one one and done at SJU. Just sayin. Maybe he is hyping Jordan cause the rest of the guys look like garbage. Just kiddin.

Quote from: Marillac on October 31, 2013, 12:06:19 PM

The quotes from Lavin and then especially Greene regarding Jordan's defense are awesome to see. That and the new rule changes are really making me rethink what he can offer this season.  I really didn't expect him to buy into the defensive end so soon. 

It's the hype season. Let's not go crazy. Lavin is a salesman, and we need to sell tickets, encourage high school players to think about us, and get everyone excited for the season.

What else would he say. "Yea, I've had a lot of rated point guard recruits over the years, and Jordan is probably somewhere in the middle". Probably closer to the truth, but it's pretty boring. That's something Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun and Rick Pitino would say. And they'd be brutally honest because they don't need to sell anymore.

Calhoun always touted his top players in the press.  I hope this kid backs up Lavin's words.  He may be the best guard to play here in a long time, but I'm looking more forward to watching Sanchez.

Quote from: Marillac on October 31, 2013, 12:06:19 PM

The quotes from Lavin and then especially Greene regarding Jordan's defense are awesome to see. That and the new rule changes are really making me rethink what he can offer this season.  I really didn't expect him to buy into the defensive end so soon. 

It's the hype season. Let's not go crazy. Lavin is a salesman, and we need to sell tickets, encourage high school players to think about us, and get everyone excited for the season.

What else would he say. "Yea, I've had a lot of rated point guard recruits over the years, and Jordan is probably somewhere in the middle". Probably closer to the truth, but it's pretty boring. That's something Jim Boeheim, Jim Calhoun and Rick Pitino would say. And they'd be brutally honest because they don't need to sell anymore.

I've seen Jordan.. It's not hype.  The kid has flown below the radar if that's possible.  We lucked out landing him over big dog programs.  He's a big PG, with elite athleticism who also actually has the vision to be a PG.  Rysheed is a kid who has capability to do big, big things in the nba nonetheless college.  Lavin knows it, and I don't think it's just hyperbole.  But if people insist, Lavin said the "most explosive" and he's probably not wrong.  This is a kid who just dunked over several post players.  He said "most explosive", not best necessarily.  Jordan will have to earn the rest.

No doubt that Lavin loves to build interest, and that is a good thing.  Rysheed is a dangerous player though.   Not sure there are many players out there that can stop him from penetrating when he wants to get his.  I think it's good to bring m along relatively slowly, because we have Branch and Greene as well, but I'm sure he's the most talented PG on roster.

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

What we have is a fan base that is not used to being in this position - ever. Even Louie would never hype a freshman. We're learning. Coach Lav will lead the way.

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

You get on the NBA radar by proving it on the court. That's not stone age stuff, that's how it is. We've had a ton of hype. I think it's better for the team if the hype starts after they've at least proven something. Like taking out Wisconsin.

lavin has brought plenty of hype. hopefully he can bring get some wins

If you were a high school stud who is considering St. John's, would you be more likely to committ if A) the coach hypes you in the press, treats you like royalty publicly, and gets you on the NBA radar early or B) acts like this is the 1970s and freshmen are freshmen and should be on a freshmen team but since there is none well just not talk about you ?

Some of you guys are living in the Stone Age.  If a kid deserves the hype which it sounds like sheed does, he should get it especially because he's a freshman and that will effect recruiting.  And keeps him happy.  And gets people talking about the program which is always good. Wow do we have an old ass fan base sometimes...

Couple questions from an old ass fan:

Is there maybe a third way between the two ridiculous extremes you gave? Like maybe not hiding him , but letting him- and I'm just spitballing here- play a game before he sets high expectations for the kid?

If treating freshman like this is such a surefire way of landing kids, how come the Coach K's, Pitinos, Boeheims, etc don't do it?

I'm always amazed at the stuff people claim will affect the decisions of recruits to come to SJU. And as far as people talking about the program, I would argue the opposite...if Lavin continues to call some kid every year the greatest whatever he's ever coached, people will tune it out.

This is certainly uplifting and it might help sell some tickets, but I never like seeing lofty expectations pinned to a freshman/rookie. With the exposure you get in NYC, the attention can go to their heads.

More explosive than a former NBA all star? Seriously?

I believe most of us are familiar with what can happen when you create a larger than life figure before a single minute is played. Orlando Sanchez, IMO should get significant hype. Harrison, Pointer, Sampson. The guys who have been here.

I'd much rather see freshman surprise us.

Trainers always talk up their horses. Ups their value. Lavs will talk up all his players. Kids would rather hear themselves talked about in a positive light even if they gotta get dressed down in private.