Jordan Suspension

Quote from: paultzman on November 24, 2013, 09:22:26 AM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 08:49:15 AM

Being better off than we were under Norm should not be considered an accomplishment. For me personally, if Jordan transfers and we don't make the tourney I'd fire Lavin. Won't happen and probably not even the right choice, but it is what I'd do. Then I'd hire a sound basketball coach (McKillop) who recruits kids that fit his style of play. Again I am not saying this SHOULD be done. But it is what I would do.

Surprised you didn't predict Jordan transferring to Baylor ala your Harrison take. 

If I were Harrison I would have transferred. Then I made it a joke to tweak posters who bashed him for 2 years.
Jordan thing is 100% on Lavin. Widely ridiculous comparisons to HOFers, followed by kid predictably struggling. Playing time gets cut, now he is suspended?  Wasn't most of pre season optimism centered around Jordan?

Jordan certainly was a key ingredient in optimism referenced.  Re: Lavin's hyperbole, I too find it annoying at times, but it  a reflection of who he is. I met him many years ago at the Adidas Summer Camp in NJ when he coached UCLA. He was friendly, talkative and a salesman. It is who he is, love it or leave it.

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Quote from: Dave on November 24, 2013, 12:16:35 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 24, 2013, 12:09:46 PM

All those guys chose to leave..... except Garrett.   In my mind that's been the worst move of the Lavin era.   By far. 
And not enough is made of it.    Amir deserved to be on this team until he graduated, or left on his own.

Where would Amir's minutes be this year?

Not the point Dave. All those guys were lauded here as part of Lavin's big time recruiting. If they didn't pan out FOR WHATEVER REASON on Lavin, no?

Amir's plan was always to leave after 2 seasons. So he did work out.

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Reasonable point.

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:18:23 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 24, 2013, 12:16:35 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 24, 2013, 12:09:46 PM

All those guys chose to leave..... except Garrett.   In my mind that's been the worst move of the Lavin era.   By far. 
And not enough is made of it.    Amir deserved to be on this team until he graduated, or left on his own.

Where would Amir's minutes be this year?

Not the point Dave. All those guys were lauded here as part of Lavin's big time recruiting. If they didn't pan out FOR WHATEVER REASON on Lavin, no?

Amir's plan was always to leave after 2 seasons. So he did work out.

How do you know that? Are you saying that coach recruited a kid who he knew never intended to stick around long enough to become a good player? But that's what happened.

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach is likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for recruiting. A "C" for coaching, and a "D" for process.

At the end of the day, I don't care why players keep getting suspended. They keep getting suspended, and it's pissing me off enough to consider firing Lavin. Maybe he needs to look in the mirror and answer for his the rules he has in place. If these "wooden inspired rules" produce another NIT, then he is in fact no better than Brian Mahoney, and Brian Mahoney was awful.

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

Just for the record players under Lavin and the boards reactions
Polee-he wasn't that good, we didn't need him even though the next year's team had only 6 guys
Sampson, Pelle, Garrett-all not eligible to start season. You have to take chances to get talent-I actually agree with this one.
Lindsey-transfers. He was a punk and a bum. Good riddance
Stith-quits team mid season. He stinks, didn't need him. Again having only 6 players is a problem.
Harrison-Suspended. He is a punk Father Lavin showing tough love
Garrett-Transfers. Didn't need him.
Baron Jason Gary Jordan-Suspended. Outcome and reaction TBA

So far Lavin's regime most closely resembles Brian Mahoney more than Louie.

Forgot one
Obepka-suspended=delusional. That was the consensus correct

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

That was a mistake. C for coaching. A for recruiting. In regards to the suspensions the topic isn't the issue. The volume is the issue. I don't care why players are getting suspended. I care that our season is in jeopardy, and that Lavin is responsible for that, again.

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

My point is the results both on the court and style of play do not justify all of the other stuff that always seems to be going on. Lavin keeps getting all the credit for recruiting, but when things go bad it is always the kids fault? Eventually people are going to see the common denominator here right?

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:38:34 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

My point is the results both on the court and style of play do not justify all of the other stuff that always seems to be going on. Lavin keeps getting all the credit for recruiting, but when things go bad it is always the kids fault? Eventually people are going to see the common denominator here right?

Your point is & has been clear. No need for further clarification.

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:44:50 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:38:34 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

My point is the results both on the court and style of play do not justify all of the other stuff that always seems to be going on. Lavin keeps getting all the credit for recruiting, but when things go bad it is always the kids fault? Eventually people are going to see the common denominator here right?

Your point is & has been clear. No need for further clarification.

I agree Poison understands and that you understand my point, even if you don't agree with it. Not so sure about most others on here 

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

Quote from: paultzman on November 24, 2013, 12:47:02 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:44:50 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:38:34 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

My point is the results both on the court and style of play do not justify all of the other stuff that always seems to be going on. Lavin keeps getting all the credit for recruiting, but when things go bad it is always the kids fault? Eventually people are going to see the common denominator here right?

Your point is & has been clear. No need for further clarification.

I agree Poison understands and that you understand my point, even if you don't agree with it. Not so sure about most others on here 

The only leverage Coach has is playing time. I'm frustrated with it, but this is how he runs his ship. Doesn't appear to have hurt him in the recruiting front. Its really about aligning himself with the players who will buy in to the code of conduct of the program. I'm sure he told them the rules before they decided to come aboard. But these kids have heard it before and were never held accountable. Maybe they think it was just talking points and is testing the limits. The point is they know the rules, if they cant follow it, then don't join the program, or else man up and deal with the consequences and put it behind you and play ball.

I think this is all being blown out of proportion. Hope everything is as well as can be with Rysheed at home though, that would be an issue, not coach's management style. 

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

T

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

They were mostly seniors and I agree they were tough and cherished the winning atmosphere. I guess Quincy leaving mid season and some minor issues with Pollee and Stith were a distraction. 

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 01:10:20 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

T

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 01:10:20 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

They were mostly seniors and I agree they were tough and cherished the winning atmosphere. I guess Quincy leaving mid season and some minor issues with Pollee and Stith were a distraction. 

We had plenty of issues that year.  We also got taken to overtime by Ball State, played close games with most of our "cupcake" opponents like Wagner and Columbia and lost to 2 teams we should have blown out.

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:38:34 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

C for recruiting? LOL

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

My point is the results both on the court and style of play do not justify all of the other stuff that always seems to be going on. Lavin keeps getting all the credit for recruiting, but when things go bad it is always the kids fault? Eventually people are going to see the common denominator here right?

Gotcha WSJ..I'm more concerned with the on court issues -- style, apparent lack of offensive plan and inconsistent defense...which I believe falls on coaching (preparation) and players (execution)...not sold on fact that suspensions are directly or indirectly his fault...

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:13:52 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 01:10:20 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

T

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 01:10:20 PM

Quote from: sju89tr on November 24, 2013, 01:04:16 PM

Does anyone actually think Lavin doesn't want his best players on the court every game? Perhaps he runs such a laid back program that kids take advantage and then get in trouble. I just wish for a season without issues worrying about players happiness and just get some W's like it was back in 2010-2011.   

That season had issues too. But those guys were a tougher group. They weren't as talented, but they were definitely tougher.

They were mostly seniors and I agree they were tough and cherished the winning atmosphere. I guess Quincy leaving mid season and some minor issues with Pollee and Stith were a distraction. 

We had plenty of issues that year.  We also got taken to overtime by Ball State, played close games with most of our "cupcake" opponents like Wagner and Columbia and lost to 2 teams we should have blown out.

Didn't they also get into a fight after a game that year? Or somebody tried to fight them? I can't exactly remember.

That being said, I knew a lot of those guys personally and they were all really cool dudes, very down to earth for the most part. Don't really know anybody on the current team so I can't really speak to that, so I'm not saying these guys aren't.