Jordan Suspension

Quote from: Poison on November 24, 2013, 12:34:49 PM

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

I think the point that WSJ is making and one I agree w is that over time if the different players keep getting suspended by coach, the coach likely the problem, and he should be removed. That much I agree with.

So far, he gets a "A" for coaching. A "C" for recruiting, and a "D" for process.

When someone provides the facts behind suspensions and whether they were team or school in fractions I guess a determination as to their merit can be made. Until then all speculation and a lot of grenade lobbing by folks who seem to enjoy it.

+ 1 it's all just a big waste of time. 

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:18:23 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 24, 2013, 12:16:35 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 24, 2013, 12:09:46 PM

All those guys chose to leave..... except Garrett.   In my mind that's been the worst move of the Lavin era.   By far. 
And not enough is made of it.    Amir deserved to be on this team until he graduated, or left on his own.

Where would Amir's minutes be this year?

Not the point Dave. All those guys were lauded here as part of Lavin's big time recruiting. If they didn't pan out FOR WHATEVER REASON on Lavin, no?

Amir's plan was always to leave after 2 seasons. So he did work out.

I thought Amir would leave after one year.  If I'm a lefty that can reach 95 without much high end pitching instruction, I'b be training to pitch year round.  Wayyyyy bigger money, higher injury risk though.

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

The guy inherited a full NCAA level team.  He was able to recruit pretty well after that but half his players didn't pan out.  Then we had a losing season playing six kids and not much positive has happened since.  Lavin seems about to lose his only 2013 recruit and has nobody committed for 2014 and we're supposed to be happy? Cmon,

Quote from: section3 on November 24, 2013, 12:30:48 PM

Quote from: we are sju on November 24, 2013, 12:21:29 PM

If he gets credit for the recruits, he should take a hit if they don't work out.

Yes, but you ignore the situation inherited, the risks that had to be taken and arduous process necessary to rebuild a program that was down for 10 years...Not saying he has forever to accomplish it but you give the impression that we should be challenging for a national title already...not sure who you wanted to take the reigns or who you would want to take the reigns and don't disagree with all of your assertions - but you seem to revel in it

The guy inherited a full NCAA level team.  He was able to recruit pretty well after that but half his players didn't pan out.  Then we had a losing season playing six kids and not much positive has happened since.  Lavin seems about to lose his only 2013 recruit and has nobody committed for 2014 and we're supposed to be happy? Cmon,

"seems about to lose..."  A little bit presumptuous bobre - let it play out.  May happen, but I'm saying otherwise let's wait it out - something will leak soon.

He didn't inherit an NCAA-level team.  He inherited a team of hard working kids who never won anything, and no one on this board, even the biggest homer, would have predicted that we would have had the success we did that season.  No one would have ever predicted that Hardy would go from a backup to a lock first team all big east guy and one who had a legit shot at winning player of the year in the conference.  Nor would anyone have predicted that Brownlee (also used as a backup) would become a very solid all-big east type player.  And our postseason got derailed in part by DJ's injury.

He has recruited better than "pretty well".  He has assembled the most talent  on the recruiting front since Fran.  We are an actual destination for top 50 kids now.

You want to get on the in-game coaching stuff, I'm with you. 

Quote from: desco80 on November 24, 2013, 12:09:46 PM

All those guys chose to leave..... except Garrett.   In my mind that's been the worst move of the Lavin era.   By far. 
And not enough is made of it.    Amir deserved to be on this team until he graduated, or left on his own.

Where would Amir's minutes be this year?

They'd be limited, no doubt.   But I think he earned the right to stay.
And the other thing is that we're all counting  on big minutes from Jones next year to help offset the loss of Orlando and Gift.   I already know that Amir can guard opposing power forwards and is an above average rebounder.   I don't know that jones is capable of either of those things.   He might be, but we don't know. 

In terms of getting recruits interested nationally Lavin has done an amazing job. He took Norm's group and got them to the tournament when most people wrote that year off. For a coach grade I would give him a C. We run a free lance offense that has not changed since Jarvis. We give up the 3 so easy it is a joke. The open looks drive me crazy. He has convinced players to come here I would have never expected to suit up here. The guys he did have problems with whether it is qualifying/transfering/suspending while here makes me shake my head.
 He knew what he was getting when he recruited these guys. If you recruit trouble you will get trouble. I am not saying RJ is a bad kid or D'Angelo/Lindsay/Polee/etc but he knew these kids had issues whether academic/personal. He is not John Wooden the "Be Quick Don't Hurry' is not working with these kids. He wants these kids buy in to that maybe he should spend more time going after kids Stanford,Nova,Northwestern,Wisconsin recruit.

He didn't inherit an NCAA-level team.  He inherited a team of hard working kids who never won anything, and no one on this board, even the biggest homer, would have predicted that we would have had the success we did that season.

No one on the board predicted that a team with nine seniors that won 17 games the year before and played in the NIT would win three more games and lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament? For the record I did and am positive that would have happened even if Norm had been retained. You make it sound like Lavin achieved nuclear fusion in his bathtub.

What Lavin did with 2010-11 team was solid job. He had people before tournament thinking that squad could go on a run. The buzz Lavin brought that first year was awesome. Norm great guy but,  maybe gets 20 wins and we are a bubble team. We got a crappy draw with Gonzaga in high elevation and no DJ Kennedy.

I think Lavin might be the most overated coach in college. With that being said he gets all the credit for the NCAA team IMO. He correctly identified the two best players on that team as Hardy and Brownlee. I mam pretty sure Norm would not have done that so who knows how that team would have done.

I think we were ranked in the teens late into the 2010-2011 season.  No one would have predicted that before the year began.  Maybe someone would have said we could win 20 (as opposed to 17), but beating all the top 10 teams we did that year (I forget the number) -- come on.  We will never know what Norm would have done, but my guess is that Booth would have played the point 30 minutes a night and Hardy/Brownlee would not have been utilized as they were.  And that would have led to an entirely different season.

Quote from: prjohnnies on November 24, 2013, 08:49:03 PM

He didn't inherit an NCAA-level team.  He inherited a team of hard working kids who never won anything, and no one on this board, even the biggest homer, would have predicted that we would have had the success we did that season.

No one on the board predicted that a team with nine seniors that won 17 games the year before and played in the NIT would win three more games and lose in the first round of the NCAA tournament? For the record I did and am positive that would have happened even if Norm had been retained. You make it sound like Lavin achieved nuclear fusion in his bathtub.

To be completely fair though, the regular season in 2010 was more of an achievement than the final record suggests.   The previous two seasons that team had been 1-13 against ranked competition; they beat 6 ranked teams in the 2010 season alone, including 3 top 10 teams.   
I know this isn't news to you, but some context was appropriate.   That doesn't change the fact that the 2010 team probably would've made the tournament in Norm was at the helm though, I don't disagree with you in that regard. 

Anyone with an update? Is he on campus? Did he practice today?

To be completely fair though, the regular season in 2010 was more of an achievement than the final record suggests.   The previous two seasons that team had been 1-13 against ranked competition; they beat 6 ranked teams in the 2010 season alone, including 3 top 10 teams.   I know this isn't news to you, but some context was appropriate.   That doesn't change the fact that the 2010 team probably would've made the tournament in Norm was at the helm though, I don't disagree with you in that regard. 

All I'm saying is that giving Lavin an A++++++++++++ as a coach because he led a team with 9 guys who went on to play professional basketball to a first round NCAA loss is grading on a curve. I'm not giving Norm credit for the results and I'm not taking away credit due Lavin. It just wasn't all that "amazing."

Lavin is a definite A++++ compared to Norm and probably an A++++ compared to the alternatives. Nothing he's done is amazing, unless it's in comparison to what preceded him. If you live on a diet of feces and suddenly are offered a piece of rotten meat it might taste amazing, but that doesn't make it haute cuisine. Lavin's recruiting has been above average and his on the floor results have been average. Anyone can lose more games than they win. I'm not amazed. I'm not even enthralled any more. If he's going to amaze me I want him to hurry and do it. I'm 80 years old. I want to win now.

@NYPost_Brazille: I'll say this about the Rysheed Jordan situation: St. John's has done a phenomenal job keeping it quiet. #sjubb

@NYPost_Brazille: Source: Rysheed Jordan suspension was "small stuff" and he is happy at St. John's, not looking to transfer FWIW. #sjubb

great news if it is true.

I did not see the Bucknell game, but I read that he played well for the 1st time in the 1st half then barely played in 2nd half. Maybe something happened on the court or in the locker room that game? Or just pissed he didn't play that much in 2nd half?

Did any of you body language experts notice anything that game?

Phil Greene happened in the Bucknell game.. Phil and D-lo were playing great and Pointer was dominating the top of the zone..

I did not see the Bucknell game, but I read that he played well for the 1st time in the 1st half then barely played in 2nd half. Maybe something happened on the court or in the locker room that game? Or just pissed he didn't play that much in 2nd half?

Did any of you body language experts notice anything that game?

He got off to a bad start in the 2nd half and the 5 guys on the floor were playing well. His lack of PT in the 2nd half of that game was a basketball decision not based on attitude or anything like that. At least from my perspective

Quote from: we are sju on November 25, 2013, 02:06:39 PM

I did not see the Bucknell game, but I read that he played well for the 1st time in the 1st half then barely played in 2nd half. Maybe something happened on the court or in the locker room that game? Or just pissed he didn't play that much in 2nd half?

Did any of you body language experts notice anything that game?

He got off to a bad start in the 2nd half and the 5 guys on the floor were playing well. His lack of PT in the 2nd half of that game was a basketball decision not based on attitude or anything like that. At least from my perspective

Agree