Rating Coach

"Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision)"


^^ yup 100%. No doubt about it.

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

This should be stickied to the top of the board and required reading

Let's not forget, we have Bobby G.'s sister, Ed Cooley's cousin and Tom Pecora's best friend since high school all posting here.  Then, there are also the president of the Mark Jackson fan club and a guy with a strange affection for Sean Evans.

Let's not forget, we have Bobby G.'s sister, Ed Cooley's cousin and Tom Pecora's best friend since high school all posting here.  Then, there are also the president of the Mark Jackson fan club and a guy with a strange affection for Sean Evans.

But after all is said and done we got you. Didn't Sonny have something to do with that line.

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

There's a big gap between grading Lavin out at close to an A, and those that say he should be fired.   

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

A couple of things...
1) Everyone agrees with you 212.   Look at the poll results; 1 person voted D, and 1 other an F.   Everyone else gave the grade you did or one notch less.   You're vastly underestimating the view of coach Lavin by this board as a whole.   People express frustration, sure, but very very very few have ever suggested Lavin should be fired anytime soon.   That view is probably held by less than 1% of the message board.

2) While most of us don't want Lavin to leave, what you brush off as "nonsense" is definitely true to one degree or another, and that's where the debate often lies.   I don't think you can say:  "Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda"  - those things are all true to some degree.   Lavin has not shown himself to be a great game coach while he's been here.   Is he a B- or a C- ?  I don't know - sensible people could have different opinions, but it's hard to argue he's been a very good game coach.   There are times - like against Bucknell when he switched defenses and it was clearly a good decision, and if you notice - he got a ton of credit for that from everyone on here.   But too many other times we've looked unprepared for 3pt shooting teams, or unable to score coming out of a timeout with a set play drawn up, or other situations that a coach can have a significant influence over.
Some of the recruits haven't played up to their expected level of production.  Also hard to argue with that.   How much so?  Debatable. 
And the team as a whole HAS underachieved.  That's not some "nonsense" which you think people are being brainwashed to believe.   You yourself said you thought we'd win 20 games last year (and presumably be a tournament team).  We didn't.   That's underachieving!   Is it falling flat on our faces?  No.    But if you thought they were good enough to do X, and they didn't.  That is underachieving, plain and simple. 

Less than 1% of the board has ever mentioned Lavin needing to go, or being anything close to a failure.   All of what you said about Briscoe/Diallo is true.  And 99% of the people on here applaud him for that, and that's why were happy he's the coach.   But you shouldn't dismiss all the criticism - because it's true to at least some degree.   

One thing that I say is overrated criticism is him benching DLO and Ruinig the team's chances to make the tournament. The way the team was playing it was a longhot at best and when he was benched the team went from a 4th and 10 to a 4th and 20 on making the tournament...Unless your Auburn the ball doesn't magically fall in your hands for a game winning touchdown.

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 24, 2013, 08:08:57 PM

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

This should be stickied to the top of the board and required reading

I'm not in favor of making any decision on Lavin until the season is over, but let's not forget that this program landed recruits before he arrived. Yes, Norm was absolute garbage, but Louie, Mahoney, Fraschilla, Jarvis all landed McD's kids.

This is year 4. After 4 years on the job, Mahoney landed 2 McDonald's kids, won one NCAA game, made the NIT once, and finished w no post season twice. Lavin's time here isn't an even comparison, but the similarities in success, and game coaching style are strong.

I don't know if we'll get to a point where we can make the tournament w out a legit point guard. IMO Lavin's success will hinge on how the Jordan situation plays out. Not every kid who flakes out, screws up or doesn't pan out is the coaches fault. Obviously, that wouldn't make much sense anyway, but he is still judged on the entire body of work.

And right now, he looks a lot like Mahoney.

After 45 votes 2.53 GPA a C+ about right.

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 24, 2013, 08:08:57 PM

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

There's a big gap between grading Lavin out at close to an A, and those that say he should be fired.   

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 24, 2013, 08:08:57 PM

Can't give him an A because of the finish to last season. But I think it's close. Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda. A lot of fan boards are full of pessimists who just like to stir the pot, but it sucks that so many fans here actually start buying into it after enough of it is posted.

Take a step back. Look at the big picture. We are looking good to land 2 blue chip top 20 recruits in 2015 in Diallo and Briscoe, And some say Lavin should be fired after this year and replaced with McKillop  This already after netting Jordan (regardless of how the situation turns out, Lavin still got him), Harkless, and Jakarr just to name a few.

You're mad because we haven't made the tourney since Lavin's first year. I get it. But you have to look at circumstances. The first being cancer. That was a setback in the rebuilding process. Other than that, did you expect to win a lot of games after graduating 9 seniors? Sure, maybe optimists thought we might have a chance in the 2nd rebuilding year, but I think most levelheaded fans knew this program was going to need some serious rebuilding. I thought we'd win 20 games last season. We won 17, so of course it was a tad disappointing.

So here we are in the third season of Lavin's own recruits. We're 3-1. Let's let the season play out a bit, please?

Lavin is going nowhere (unless it's his decision) and for that we should thank our lucky stars. "You don't know whatcha got till it's gone." We lose Lavin, it's back to fighting over 2 star recruits with mid majors. But, some apparently long for those days.

A couple of things...
1) Everyone agrees with you 212.   Look at the poll results; 1 person voted D, and 1 other an F.   Everyone else gave the grade you did or one notch less.   You're vastly underestimating the view of coach Lavin by this board as a whole.   People express frustration, sure, but very very very few have ever suggested Lavin should be fired anytime soon.   That view is probably held by less than 1% of the message board.

2) While most of us don't want Lavin to leave, what you brush off as "nonsense" is definitely true to one degree or another, and that's where the debate often lies.   I don't think you can say:  "Some of you buy in to the nonsense that's spewed on this board about Lavin underachieving, can't coach, recruits aren't as good as they should be, yadda yadda yadda"  - those things are all true to some degree.   Lavin has not shown himself to be a great game coach while he's been here.   Is he a B- or a C- ?  I don't know - sensible people could have different opinions, but it's hard to argue he's been a very good game coach.   There are times - like against Bucknell when he switched defenses and it was clearly a good decision, and if you notice - he got a ton of credit for that from everyone on here.   But too many other times we've looked unprepared for 3pt shooting teams, or unable to score coming out of a timeout with a set play drawn up, or other situations that a coach can have a significant influence over.
Some of the recruits haven't played up to their expected level of production.  Also hard to argue with that.   How much so?  Debatable. 
And the team as a whole HAS underachieved.  That's not some "nonsense" which you think people are being brainwashed to believe.   You yourself said you thought we'd win 20 games last year (and presumably be a tournament team).  We didn't.   That's underachieving!   Is it falling flat on our faces?  No.    But if you thought they were good enough to do X, and they didn't.  That is underachieving, plain and simple. 

Less than 1% of the board has ever mentioned Lavin needing to go, or being anything close to a failure.   All of what you said about Briscoe/Diallo is true.  And 99% of the people on here applaud him for that, and that's why were happy he's the coach.   But you shouldn't dismiss all the criticism - because it's true to at least some degree.   

I think the number is a lot higher at this point. A lot of people saying his job security relies on this season. I think that's way off base. And the amount of applause Lavin got for making adjustments in the Bucknell game is nothing compared to the criticism he gets for everything else that goes on during the game. It's not even close.

All of those things spewed about coach are not all true. You can question the ingame decisions of ANY coach after a loss. There were not 350 posts a day on this board criticizing  his coaching when we won 20 games and made the tournament. His recruits overall do not underachieve. Harkless, Jakarr, Obekpa, D'Angelo, even Greene. All overachieved IMO. Pointer is right on the mark.

My point is, for being "happy he is our coach," there are a lot of posters who take any chance they can to take a shot at him. I mean, I guess I shouldn't be surprised as I am also a Giants fan, and their board is calling for Coughlin's head already.

I give Lavin a B- ...     recruiting has been very good...   game coaching below average but he was smart enough to bring in someone better at then he is this year after losing Dunlap.

I am not a fan of our assistants but I am not going down that road right now...

He needs to bring this team together and get them playing better, that is the bottom line.

Just out of curiosity for those of you who think Lavin is beyond criticism, do you ever expect him to make the tourney or is that not a goal any longer? My statement was simply if yet another one of his prized recruits leaves and we fail to make the tourney for 3 of his 4 seasons, personally  I would fire him. My opinion, if yours is different fine, but outside of Norm if we fail to make tourney again this season he will be our least successful coach.

If Jordan returns and or we get in as a 10 seed and lose to Southwest Missouri state by 45, he should stay. Yeah, I am being really unreasonable.

 Not sure there are many on here who think Lavin is above criticism.

What if Jordan leaves and we still make touney?

What if Jordan stays and we don't?

Lots of scenarios can be played out.  Bottom line we are 3-1 and where everyone thought we would be , minus Jordan fiasco, which we know nothing about. 

Is it family, playing time, discipline? We don't know.

Obekpa was suspended for drinking, so I hear.  Is that Lavins fault for enforcing that rule? Not IMO.   Lets see how it plays out. 

Well Boo if people are taking shots at me, then I specifically said IMO all is good if we make tourney with or w/o Jordan, or Jordan stays and we miss out again. Under that very reasonable criteria, I indicated again, IMO if neither occurs than if you look at the cold hard stats this has been a failure. I am not even saying either or both of those scenarios will occur. Simply stated if the worst case scenario plays out then people need to reevaluate this coach. I stand by that.
Funny people predicting how great Jordan will be and how we should make sweet 16, yet my goals are unfair???

Wait, what??
Suspended for drinking. College kid drinking, wow. Do you get suspended for getting laid too?

 Who is taking shots? The results of the poll are pretty clear cut... we are all basically on the same page minus a few outliers on either side.

 If we don't make the tourney I think most will reevaluate the coach.  Personally, I think we can with or without Jordan. I hope he comes back, but my instinct is telling me this won't end well. 

 Question-  you predicted a bubble team this season, no?  So a tourney miss is a failure also?  So you are either predicting failure or have changed your expectations.

 Missing the NCAA is a failure this season, IMO.  But, I'm no where close to looking to replace this coach..  The alternative will be much worse..

Wait, what??
Suspended for drinking. College kid drinking, wow. Do you get suspended for getting laid too?

  Pretty sure you can't drink if you're underage and on a Div 1 sports team during the season..Not same rules for the rest of college kids.

FTR-  I have an intern at work who goes to st. Johns.  He told me the about the CO thing, so,  obviously, it may or may not be true. 

Minor infraction obviously as he missed two meaningless exhibitions.

Just out of curiosity for those of you who think Lavin is beyond criticism, do you ever expect him to make the tourney or is that not a goal any longer? My statement was simply if yet another one of his prized recruits leaves and we fail to make the tourney for 3 of his 4 seasons, personally  I would fire him. My opinion, if yours is different fine, but outside of Norm if we fail to make tourney again this season he will be our least successful coach.

If Jordan returns and or we get in as a 10 seed and lose to Southwest Missouri state by 45, he should stay. Yeah, I am being really unreasonable.

There is almost no realistic scenerio that could happen this year that would cause me to say Lavin should go. When you bring in talent like he does, you simply can't replace that. If we go 17-16 again and you fire Lavin, you immediately become a mid major program. I expect to make the tourney this season, and next. Regardless of the Jordan situation.

Boo,
Must be a new rule becuase I was sometimes drunk sitting in the dugout in college. I think coach sometimes forgot I was on the team, so that may explain why I got away with it.

Jordan thing is now becoming a trend and he was someone I was looking forward to watching. Plus Lavin's main positive is recruiting and I do not believe that just getting a kid to sign here is the end of that process. That is why not making a tourney coupled with him leaving makes this season a disaster IMO.

I remember Oktoberfest on campus my freshman year.  You got a free plastic mug and could refill as much as you want.  The drinking age was 18 back then.  I was only 17 but no one checked ID.  Different standards now.  Rule is probably no drinking for any athlete, let alone one who is below the legal drinking age.

As for Rysheed, I'm hoping that he just went home because of his sick mom and missed practice as a result.  I really hope that he doesn't take the drastic step of transferring.  It isn't good for the team or to him.