What do we need to do to start better?

Stop with the unfounded transfer rumors about Rysheed.

Kid loves Coach Lavin.  He had some minor things early and he is adjusting to college life.

Stop trying to overanalyze everything. 

I was talking about him  thinking he's going to nba

I was talking about him  thinking he's going to nba

I know that which is just as unfounded.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 01, 2013, 08:27:12 PM

I was talking about him  thinking he's going to nba

I know that which is just as unfounded.

I heard Lavin said something similar to a group of fans before game

Quote from: fordham96 on December 01, 2013, 08:31:26 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 01, 2013, 08:27:12 PM

I was talking about him  thinking he's going to nba

I know that which is just as unfounded.

I heard Lavin said something similar to a group of fans before game

Meaning you're rabble rousing.  Stick to Iona ball.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 01, 2013, 12:02:15 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 01, 2013, 11:51:38 AM

If we pressed for a full game you can kiss goodbye Harrison's 30mpg, and Sampson and Obekpa would need a lot more rest too.   And then you're playing more of the game with your best players on the bench.

Basketball is not a track meet.  Even the teams that play at the fastest tempos still end up scoring most of their points in the half court.   Do you think if we press for 40 minutes all of a sudden we'll get 30 steals and score 50+ points off breakaway dunks?   
Not going to happen.   And in the process we'll pickup a ton of fouls and give up probably just as many open 3's or layups because we're stretched so far.

The press is a weapon, and it certainly looks like one Lavin should use more often; but we'll still only go as far as our half-court offense and defense take us.   
You can slice it a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day almost every basketball team ends up playing 80% of possessions in the halfcourt.   
Press or not, that's what needs to improve.

  Stop penetration when we're on defense, and get some penetration on the other end so we're not settling for long 2's.   
That cannot be repeated enough.   

I think they definitely need to start out in it though.  We can't afford to sit around and not play for the first 5-10 minutes in the game.

I don't disagree Mase.  I just think we shouldn't expect to see it for 40minutes.  In my view that's not realistic or ideal.

Why is it ideal for VCU and not for us? Seems to be that VCU is what SJU would be if we played tough traditional Redmen man to man defense. IMO the guys that can't handle playing defense, can sit down, because other than Harrison, no one can score the ball. We've got to be good at something as a team. That second half vs Georgia Tech was terrific because we won, and also because it showed us that we can be good at something as a team.

Our zone doesn't stop penetration. Teams with guards like Frazier and Newbill will eat it up. We need a tougher defense. They should press right from tip off and blow Fordham out. I'd start Branch, Harrison, Pointer, Sampson and Obekpa.

Quote from: desco80 on December 01, 2013, 12:34:59 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 01, 2013, 12:02:15 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 01, 2013, 11:51:38 AM

If we pressed for a full game you can kiss goodbye Harrison's 30mpg, and Sampson and Obekpa would need a lot more rest too.   And then you're playing more of the game with your best players on the bench.

Basketball is not a track meet.  Even the teams that play at the fastest tempos still end up scoring most of their points in the half court.   Do you think if we press for 40 minutes all of a sudden we'll get 30 steals and score 50+ points off breakaway dunks?   
Not going to happen.   And in the process we'll pickup a ton of fouls and give up probably just as many open 3's or layups because we're stretched so far.

The press is a weapon, and it certainly looks like one Lavin should use more often; but we'll still only go as far as our half-court offense and defense take us.   
You can slice it a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day almost every basketball team ends up playing 80% of possessions in the halfcourt.   
Press or not, that's what needs to improve.

  Stop penetration when we're on defense, and get some penetration on the other end so we're not settling for long 2's.   
That cannot be repeated enough.   

I think they definitely need to start out in it though.  We can't afford to sit around and not play for the first 5-10 minutes in the game.

I don't disagree Mase.  I just think we shouldn't expect to see it for 40minutes.  In my view that's not realistic or ideal.

Why is it ideal for VCU and not for us? Seems to be that VCU is what SJU would be if we played tough traditional Redmen man to man defense. IMO the guys that can't handle playing defense, can sit down, because other than Harrison, no one can score the ball. We've got to be good at something as a team. That second half vs Georgia Tech was terrific because we won, and also because it showed us that we can be good at something as a team.

Our zone doesn't stop penetration. Teams with guards like Frazier and Newbill will eat it up. We need a tougher defense. They should press right from tip off and blow Fordham out. I'd start Branch, Harrison, Pointer, Sampson and Obekpa.

If it works then I'm all for it.  Let's see.
I'm just worried that if a team prepares at all for our press, they'll get a ton of easy baskets.  Because to me the same fundamentals that hurt us in half court; not staying in front of ball handlers; jumping on pump fakes, not anticipating when to rotate ...all these things will hurt us just as much if not more in a full court press. 

But I'm keeping an open mind, let's see what they do against Fordham and take it from there.

Stop with the unfounded transfer rumors about Rysheed.

Kid loves Coach Lavin.  He had some minor things early and he is adjusting to college life.

Stop trying to overanalyze everything. 

  I was, by no means trying to spread any rumors..  Just playing doomsday ST. John's fan.. Usually not my style..  Just a frustrated fan.

 I want Jordan to succeed so here so bad, as do most.  I guess maybe I bought into too much hype and thought he would be a real difference maker right off the bat. Obviously, this isn't the start we, he , or the St. John's staff was expecting for him.

 Hearing he loves Lavin and loves playing here is great news.  I want him running this team. Period.  He needs to play to get the confidence, which may be all it is for him at this point.. Confidence.  I think coach needs to give him more of a leash, but that is just my opinion.

Quote from: Poison on December 01, 2013, 09:09:00 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 01, 2013, 12:34:59 PM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on December 01, 2013, 12:02:15 PM

Quote from: desco80 on December 01, 2013, 11:51:38 AM

If we pressed for a full game you can kiss goodbye Harrison's 30mpg, and Sampson and Obekpa would need a lot more rest too.   And then you're playing more of the game with your best players on the bench.

Basketball is not a track meet.  Even the teams that play at the fastest tempos still end up scoring most of their points in the half court.   Do you think if we press for 40 minutes all of a sudden we'll get 30 steals and score 50+ points off breakaway dunks?   
Not going to happen.   And in the process we'll pickup a ton of fouls and give up probably just as many open 3's or layups because we're stretched so far.

The press is a weapon, and it certainly looks like one Lavin should use more often; but we'll still only go as far as our half-court offense and defense take us.   
You can slice it a lot of different ways, but at the end of the day almost every basketball team ends up playing 80% of possessions in the halfcourt.   
Press or not, that's what needs to improve.

  Stop penetration when we're on defense, and get some penetration on the other end so we're not settling for long 2's.   
That cannot be repeated enough.   

I think they definitely need to start out in it though.  We can't afford to sit around and not play for the first 5-10 minutes in the game.

I don't disagree Mase.  I just think we shouldn't expect to see it for 40minutes.  In my view that's not realistic or ideal.

Why is it ideal for VCU and not for us? Seems to be that VCU is what SJU would be if we played tough traditional Redmen man to man defense. IMO the guys that can't handle playing defense, can sit down, because other than Harrison, no one can score the ball. We've got to be good at something as a team. That second half vs Georgia Tech was terrific because we won, and also because it showed us that we can be good at something as a team.

Our zone doesn't stop penetration. Teams with guards like Frazier and Newbill will eat it up. We need a tougher defense. They should press right from tip off and blow Fordham out. I'd start Branch, Harrison, Pointer, Sampson and Obekpa.

If it works then I'm all for it.  Let's see.
I'm just worried that if a team prepares at all for our press, they'll get a ton of easy baskets.  Because to me the same fundamentals that hurt us in half court; not staying in front of ball handlers; jumping on pump fakes, not anticipating when to rotate ...all these things will hurt us just as much if not more in a full court press. 

But I'm keeping an open mind, let's see what they do against Fordham and take it from there.

How many "easy" baskets you going to see with Obekpa sitting by our rim? 

To bring it back to the initial post, the slow starts are one of the surprising things about this team.

Moving away from strategy – press vs no press; Branch vs Jordan; et al – I've always thought one of Lavin's great strengths is his ability to get the kids to buy into what he's preaching. It certainly seems to work on the recruiting trail.

I figured his pre-game talks would be the type that would have the kids kicking down doors to get on the court. Not seeing that right now.

Again, I'll withhold judgement and see how things build over the course of the year.