Rysheed Coming Out Party

Will he say anything about next year?

That I don't know.  I'm not tight with him like Marco.

it always come back to baldi

Does  Rysheed want to speak?   Maybe he'd rather not have to answer questions about his mother's health and whether he will be back next year.  Not to mention:  "What's your connection to Marco Baldi, the lunatic Iona fan on Johnny Jungle?"

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 10, 2014, 01:13:41 PM

Will this be the first time ever that one team, and one coach,  has had 3 consecutive BE Rookie of the Year award winners?

I hope that happens, that's a stat that even the most critical Lavin detractor can't spin.

Dude can recruit, need proof....oh that's right.....3 straight BE ROY's in the 3 full classes he brought to the school.

Two of them occurring when the Conference was 16 deep and the best in America.

I'll give it a try!    This year not the same BE. Last years teams  Tyler Ennis wins. 

LAVINWOOD @LAVINWOOD
Get off Twitter, Sheed! #sjubb RT @____whynot: Send emojis I'm bored ‼️

Is it best Freshman or Newcomer?

If it is newcomer than Sterling Gibbs will get the award over anyone.

LAVINWOOD @LAVINWOOD
Get off Twitter, Sheed! #sjubb RT @____whynot: Send emojis I'm bored ‼️

I'm not sure what's worse, stalking an 18 year old amateur athlete on twitter or snitching on that athlete.

Is it best Freshman or Newcomer?

If it is newcomer than Sterling Gibbs will get the award over anyone.

It's freshman

For what it is worth, I don't see any of our guys listed anywhere near the first round in the updated lottery projections.  So I think it would be foolish for anyone of these kids to make the leap.  Everyone that considers leaving should watch the Lenny Cooke documentary; I know for some like Lance the move appears to be paying dividends (or has worked out), but that isn't to say that Lance would be in even a better position had he stayed another year at Cincy.

For what it is worth, I don't see any of our guys listed anywhere near the first round in the updated lottery projections.  So I think it would be foolish for anyone of these kids to make the leap.  Everyone that considers leaving should watch the Lenny Cooke documentary; I know for some like Lance the move appears to be paying dividends (or has worked out), but that isn't to say that Lance would be in even a better position had he stayed another year at Cincy.

I never understand this logic PR.   Besides an education, which I admit is quite valuable, but in pure-basketball terms what does a player gain in the long-term by staying in school?     Did Omar Cook fail because he came out as a freshman or because he could never shoot well enough to be an NBA point guard?

If you're good the NBA will find a place for you.   If you're mediocre you'll end up dropping out of the league.   Doesn't matter whether you are 19 or 25.   
Jeremy Tyler would be in the same position as if he had gone to college, a backup center on a bad NBA team.   

One of the only exceptions I see is if you know this year is a particularly "loaded" draft class.  Then it might make sense to stay a year and have a better chance at a guaranteed contract.

Quote from: prjohnnies on February 13, 2014, 01:35:25 PM

For what it is worth, I don't see any of our guys listed anywhere near the first round in the updated lottery projections.  So I think it would be foolish for anyone of these kids to make the leap.  Everyone that considers leaving should watch the Lenny Cooke documentary; I know for some like Lance the move appears to be paying dividends (or has worked out), but that isn't to say that Lance would be in even a better position had he stayed another year at Cincy.

I never understand this logic PR.   Besides an education, which I admit is quite valuable, but in pure-basketball terms what does a player gain in the long-term by staying in school?     Did Omar Cook fail because he came out as a freshman or because he could never shoot well enough to be an NBA point guard?

If you're good the NBA will find a place for you.   If you're mediocre you'll end up dropping out of the league.   Doesn't matter whether you are 19 or 25.   
Jeremy Tyler would be in the same position as if he had gone to college, a backup center on a bad NBA team.   

One of the only exceptions I see is if you know this year is a particularly "loaded" draft class.  Then it might make sense to stay a year and have a better chance at a guaranteed contract.

I think there's something to be gained by staying in school in terms of development. Stephenson is an exception but his career may have taken off quicker had he stayed another year. He barely got off the bench his first couple seasons where he could've been playing every minute of every game at Cincy.

I never understand this logic PR.   Besides an education, which I admit is quite valuable, but in pure-basketball terms what does a player gain in the long-term by staying in school?     Did Omar Cook fail because he came out as a freshman or because he could never shoot well enough to be an NBA point guard?

If you're good the NBA will find a place for you.   If you're mediocre you'll end up dropping out of the league.   Doesn't matter whether you are 19 or 25.   
Jeremy Tyler would be in the same position as if he had gone to college, a backup center on a bad NBA team.   

One of the only exceptions I see is if you know this year is a particularly "loaded" draft class.  Then it might make sense to stay a year and have a better chance at a guaranteed contract.

Just so. Anywhere else other than sports no one would counsel a student to stay in school rather than take a high paying prestigious job in the private sector. Eg anyone who told a freshman computer science major not to take a 6 figure job at Google so they can stay in school and get better at coding would be the object of ridicule. At least in the D league a player can work on his game year round; he can afford to hire a personal trainer; he can practice all day long if he desires; not to mention the trim. Cavils: as for school, screw school: education may be valuable but a college degree is basically worthless and especially the sort of degree earned by high functioning college athletes; and calling Omar Cook a failure is a bit harsh: he's made millions of dollars over a long basketball career. He didn't make it in the NBA, but he's succeeded in his profession to a much higher degree than anyone who bemoans his having left school prematurely.

Quote from: prjohnnies on February 13, 2014, 01:35:25 PM

For what it is worth, I don't see any of our guys listed anywhere near the first round in the updated lottery projections.  So I think it would be foolish for anyone of these kids to make the leap.  Everyone that considers leaving should watch the Lenny Cooke documentary; I know for some like Lance the move appears to be paying dividends (or has worked out), but that isn't to say that Lance would be in even a better position had he stayed another year at Cincy.

I never understand this logic PR.   Besides an education, which I admit is quite valuable, but in pure-basketball terms what does a player gain in the long-term by staying in school?     Did Omar Cook fail because he came out as a freshman or because he could never shoot well enough to be an NBA point guard?

If you're good the NBA will find a place for you.   If you're mediocre you'll end up dropping out of the league.   Doesn't matter whether you are 19 or 25.   
Jeremy Tyler would be in the same position as if he had gone to college, a backup center on a bad NBA team.   

One of the only exceptions I see is if you know this year is a particularly "loaded" draft class.  Then it might make sense to stay a year and have a better chance at a guaranteed contract.

I think it is huge to be able to contribute right away. If you come out early and are drafted late first or second round then these teams arent as committed to you as someone who is drafted higher. So the next year you can be passed over by a higher drafted player. Yes the coaching and training may make them a better player but their situation may worsen.

Stephenson is an exception but his career may have taken off quicker had he stayed another year. He barely got off the bench his first couple seasons where he could've been playing every minute of every game at Cincy.

No no no my friend Stephenson got better over those 2 years under very good coaching.  It happens.

Quote

Stephenson is an exception but his career may have taken off quicker had he stayed another year. He barely got off the bench his first couple seasons where he could've been playing every minute of every game at Cincy.

No no no my friend Stephenson got better over those 2 years under very good coaching.  It happens.

Yes that's part of it. But he was immature when he came into the league which IMO slowed his development. Another year of being the leader of a college team could've better prepared him for the NBA, which he clearly has not when he fist entered.

Quote from: prjohnnies on February 13, 2014, 01:35:25 PM

For what it is worth, I don't see any of our guys listed anywhere near the first round in the updated lottery projections.  So I think it would be foolish for anyone of these kids to make the leap.  Everyone that considers leaving should watch the Lenny Cooke documentary; I know for some like Lance the move appears to be paying dividends (or has worked out), but that isn't to say that Lance would be in even a better position had he stayed another year at Cincy.

I never understand this logic PR.   Besides an education, which I admit is quite valuable, but in pure-basketball terms what does a player gain in the long-term by staying in school?     Did Omar Cook fail because he came out as a freshman or because he could never shoot well enough to be an NBA point guard?

If you're good the NBA will find a place for you.   If you're mediocre you'll end up dropping out of the league.   Doesn't matter whether you are 19 or 25.   
Jeremy Tyler would be in the same position as if he had gone to college, a backup center on a bad NBA team.   

One of the only exceptions I see is if you know this year is a particularly "loaded" draft class.  Then it might make sense to stay a year and have a better chance at a guaranteed contract.

The only reason a player should stay in school is if they are not guaranteed to be selected in the first round. Even if its a late first rounder, take the guaranteed contract, imo.

Another year of being the leader of a college team could've better prepared him for the NBA, which he clearly has not when he fist entered.

I don't think he could of been any more prepared than he was when he first started receiving playing time.  He would have still had a major transition in his first year especially when you want PT on a very good defensive team even if he stayed at Cincy another year.

He got better by not playing and just learning the ropes under Brian Shaw, Coach Vogel and the rest of the guys on the Pacers.  Guys really do improve with good coaching it really does happen.  Vogel and Shaw positioned him to succeed once they decided he was ready to play. Look what Larry Brown has done at SMU they are a very well coached team it is a shame we never witness this or it is foreign to most of you guys to see players get better from their freshmen to senior years.

Rysheed, D-lo, Obekpa, Phil, and Gift have all improved a lot, imo, since they started playing at St. John's... 

It's not about making it in the NBA

It's about a gauranteed contract for millions.

If you get drafted in the 2nd round, and don't have the skills to make it, you get flushed out.

If you get drafted in the 1st round, whether you have the talent or not, that money is guaranteed.

The caveat for staying in school is getting drafted higher, getting that guaranteed money, and then whether you make it or not, at least you got that ONE contract. 

Rysheed, D-lo, Obekpa, Phil, and Gift have all improved a lot, imo, since they started playing at St. John's... 

Harrison was just as good as a freshman as he is now, Greene hasn't improved much he was a surprise as a freshman and has pretty much been the same since just his role changes a lot, Opekpa is the same defensively as last year just more inconsistent this year and lets not crown him as a good offensive player based off 3 games because look at the 3 games prior and they are scary. Jordan there is no way to tell if he has improved because he plays more now and he as well is a very inconsistent player as of now but that is something that definitely could change.  Gift is no better this year than he was 2 years ago he is the same player who just plays less he will give you tough minutes, still has terrible hands, and does very little offensively.  I honestly don't think any of the players you named have mad significant improvements.

The year under Dunlap from beginning of the year to end of the year I would say every player improved during those 4 months but since then not so much.  It was fun watching Dunlap coach those guys even know they came up on the short end more times than not.  I love seeing players improve throughout the year and get better throughout their careers just doesn't seem to be happening much around Jamaica.