Progress

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Re: Progress
« Reply #40 on: January 06, 2014, 04:02:22 PM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Wouldn't some of that blame have fall on the assistants though? I mean Hines came in with the reputation as a great developmental guy assuming that's his responsibility

Agree but who brought them in.  Was  Lavin really looking for qualified x and O type assistants who could actually develop talent or was he just trying to sell to kids that he had former NBA guys on his staff to impress them?   Does working with NBA caliber talent translate into developing talented high school  players?  I would think its a different skill set as their motivation and talent level are vastly different.  If one is head man in any organization and the organization is not running well with the various contributions from its employees, whose job is it to make changes so the organization turns the corner, so yes it's all on Lavin.

Re: Progress
« Reply #41 on: January 06, 2014, 07:12:40 PM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Please!! You throw out these statements as if you were intimately involved...fact is you don't know whether Lavin, Dunlap, combination or neither contributed to Mo's development...

Poison

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Re: Progress
« Reply #42 on: January 06, 2014, 07:54:53 PM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Re: Progress
« Reply #43 on: January 06, 2014, 09:46:41 PM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.

TONYD3

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Re: Progress
« Reply #44 on: January 06, 2014, 09:54:22 PM »
Dom was atleast top 40. Sampson around same as was Harrison . Think Dom was co census highest rated

Re: Progress
« Reply #45 on: January 08, 2014, 09:18:32 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Re: Progress
« Reply #46 on: January 08, 2014, 09:24:50 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Please!! You throw out these statements as if you were intimately involved...fact is you don't know whether Lavin, Dunlap, combination or neither contributed to Mo's development...
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Please!! You throw out these statements as if you were intimately involved...fact is you don't know whether Lavin, Dunlap, combination or neither contributed to Mo's development...

Perhaps if you followed the program, you would be aware that coach Lavin was commanded by his doctors to stay away from games and interaction with the team on the practice court as we'll.  that's why Lavin was out in the recruiting trail during the season while Dunlap was coaching the team.  Perhaps there was communication at times but the word is that Dunlap was primarily responsible for Mos development.

Tha Kid

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Re: Progress
« Reply #47 on: January 08, 2014, 09:44:30 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 09:45:47 AM by Tha Kid »
"I drink and I know things"

Poison

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Re: Progress
« Reply #48 on: January 08, 2014, 09:55:29 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)

Lavor was top 50. Hamilton was #11 in one pub I recall. Artest was top 20, higher in certain pubs.
Even if you look at what Jarvis had in 00-01. Glover, Cook, Cuffe, Diakite, Shaw etc were all top 100 guys. It's what you do with this talent that matters.

Moose

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Re: Progress
« Reply #49 on: January 08, 2014, 10:07:16 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)

Lavor was top 50. Hamilton was #11 in one pub I recall. Artest was top 20, higher in certain pubs.
Even if you look at what Jarvis had in 00-01. Glover, Cook, Cuffe, Diakite, Shaw etc were all top 100 guys. It's what you do with this talent that matters.

No way Lamont was that high.  I'd be floored if that was true.
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Tha Kid

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  • 4662
Re: Progress
« Reply #50 on: January 08, 2014, 10:11:36 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)

Lavor was top 50. Hamilton was #11 in one pub I recall. Artest was top 20, higher in certain pubs.
Even if you look at what Jarvis had in 00-01. Glover, Cook, Cuffe, Diakite, Shaw etc were all top 100 guys. It's what you do with this talent that matters.

No way Lamont was that high.  I'd be floored if that was true.

Zendon.  Lamont didnt play with Artest and Felipe ;)
"I drink and I know things"

Re: Progress
« Reply #51 on: January 08, 2014, 10:11:55 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)

Lavor was top 50. Hamilton was #11 in one pub I recall. Artest was top 20, higher in certain pubs.
Even if you look at what Jarvis had in 00-01. Glover, Cook, Cuffe, Diakite, Shaw etc were all top 100 guys. It's what you do with this talent that matters.

No way Lamont was that high.  I'd be floored if that was true.

Zendon Hamilton

Moose

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  • 12322
Re: Progress
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2014, 10:12:31 AM »
If I didn't know the history of Lavins recruited classes I might agree with you but consider this......
Pointer, Sampson, Dlo and Jordan were all consensus top 50 high school players by all the major recruiting sites.  Branch was rated between 50 and 60, Gift and Sanchez were Juco All Americans and CO was very highly recruited.  If one or even two of these players didn't pan out, and that could happen, but this group as a whole being down by almost 30 points to a mediocre Georgetown team in the first half, that's not un talented players that's a breakdown in the entire organization.  Ask yourself these two questions.

1. What other team with this much talent/experience has such miserable results?
2.  If your own son was a HS All American with a shot to play at the next level, even as a die hard St. John's fan,  would you send him  to St. John's to play for Steve Lavin?

Yes, we know yesterday was a very bad loss. We all saw the game.

If my son was a HS AA, and I was choosing a coach to help him get to the next level, I'd be interested that coach's track record regarding developing talent. Overall record and success of the team wouldn't really matter much to me, because as you stayed, I'm looking for a coach to get my kid to the next level.

So far, of the players Lavin has brought into STJ, how many have made the next level? I count one NBA player. One player, who wasn't a McDonald's AA, yet still was drafted into the league as though he was one. How many came in with legit NBA aspirations only to fade away? I count zero that were Lavin's fault.

You also asked what other team with this much talent/experience has miserable results? Start with 94-95, 95-96, 96-97, 01-02, 03-04, and you can also point to the 06-07 team that had seniors, and several top 100 recruits on it's roster.


In reality, Lavin had realy nothing to do with Mo Harkless as you may recall it was Dunlap who coached him while Lavin was out on the recruiting trail. How many of Lavins players have improved?  CO has no offensive game, Dlo while naturing off the court, still makes bad decisions, takes bad shots and 3 years on the team still is not fully aware of what his role is.  Pointer was ranked 25th in HS nationally by several lists and has he improved?  Branch has regressed, and look at Sampson who I believe did have pro potential as cited by pro scouts earlier in the season, has he progressed?

In terms of other teams with this much talent I was talking about current NCAA teams, but no St. John's team other then the Mullin Berry team of the early 80s and the Sealyham Werdan team even came close to such talent ( at least in the HS rankings with 4 top 50 players ) that the present team has.

Plenty of STJ teams have had recruits as highly ranked as this one. For example: the teams from 1992-2004. All of those teams read more talent on paper than this one. Even the the 03-04 team had a McD's kid, and a top 25 ESPN guard to play in the backcourt w him.

This team is experienced and deep. But they are not loaded with high level talent. Closest we have is Harrison, and I recall him being ranked around #60.

Wasn't dom in the 20's or 30's? Harrison was actually one of the lower rated players, Jakarr, branch and of course rysheed were all more highly rated than him.


correct, Dom was rated 25 by Rivals, Harrison 30 something, Rysheed, 19. Jakarr, 30 something as we'll.  there were no St. John's teams in the 90s with as many highly rated players out of high school as this one and that's a FACT. !

Sure maybe, but Fran's NCAA team with Lopez (1) Hamilton (top 10-15) and Artest (top 20 or so?) was certainly more highly rated.  And I may be leaving out someone else in the top 50 (cant remember if Lavor was that high, for example)

Lavor was top 50. Hamilton was #11 in one pub I recall. Artest was top 20, higher in certain pubs.
Even if you look at what Jarvis had in 00-01. Glover, Cook, Cuffe, Diakite, Shaw etc were all top 100 guys. It's what you do with this talent that matters.

No way Lamont was that high.  I'd be floored if that was true.

Zendon.  Lamont didnt play with Artest and Felipe ;)

Ah.  Shitty morning.
Remember who broke the Slice news