Real progress or a mirage?

Branch's passing and court vision is infectious.

When he's running the offense in the half court, we see alot more movement off-ball and extra passes. Guys know they can actually get passed open looks/

When Greene/Harrison and to a lesser extent Jordan are running the point, there's no movement and guys get the ball and look to score immediately.

I regret the Providence and Depaul games.  Both were there to be won and the season looks entirely different right now if that happened.

Sorry to say, this is a mirage. And it isnt the first.
Earlier in the season, there was a strech, beginning in the 2nd half of the Ga Tech game to the Youngstown St game, where the team seemed to adopt a consistent fast passed, run & press oriented offense. Then for reasons i still do not understand, this was dropped when conference play began and the team returned to the slow awkward half court style that they struggled with earlier in season.

Lavin didnt really figure it out then, there is no reason to believe he truly has now. I expect a reversion to the slow ineffective "offense" that gave us a 5 game losing streak.
Expect this current winning streak to be followed by another losing streak.

We are playing better and I believe the progress is real but if our expectations are to finish the season on a huge run that gives us say a 10-8 conference record I don't see that happening. I think if we played this way since the start of Big East play we would be looking at a 4-3 maybe 5-2 record but that didn't happen. There's chances for quality wins (@Providence, Xavier, Creighton (twice) and @Villanova) still left but we have to win Tuesday to start it off. If we play this way the rest of the year then we can hope to make a lot of noise in the Big East tournament, every team in this league has flaws.

We have good players. As long as coach doesn't intentionally sabotage any games we could win every game we have left. No team we have left to play will have considerably better players. If Lavin plays smart we will win.

The next four games will either crush our season or potentially catapult us to where most of us thought we would be.  @ crei, vs marq, @prov vs crei.  3-1 and we are right back in the thick of things at 5-6. 

Quote from: tnice on January 26, 2014, 12:13:22 PM

Agree with the consensus opinion about baby steps, the quality of the competition, rotation and distribution of minutes and general cautious optimism.

I would add two thoughts. First, the ball movement and more unselfish play isn't as much the product of better plays or better execution. Its a mindset. Branch is the best example; his first inclination is to make a sweet pass on every play. Obviously it leads him to bad decisions every once in a while, but in my experience, its easier to take a kid like that and dial him back a bit than it is to teach a kid who's a me first player to play team ball. You can run all the great plays/offense you want, but in order to hit the open man, you have to actually be looking for him. That sounds ridiculously simplistic, but its something the team has sorely lacked, not only this year but for much of Lavins tenure with this group. There have been a few encouraging signs over the last few games that its starting to happen. Fingers crossed.

Second, as fundamentally sound as Creighton is, this might be the best kind of good team for us to play right now because we're so much more athletic. We used to constantly crush Notre Dame even when they were playing well and were highly ranked for the same reason. Obviously we'll have to play smart AND athletic to beat them, but I think its possible.

We rarely crushed Notre Dame and only beat them at MSG. We were the ones who would get crushed often when we  played them in South Bend.

I didn't look it up but we beat them a number of times (put a whooping on them in MSG) including at ND...they were the type of team that had trouble with our athleticism

Finally an outstanding game at the point.  Better ball movement.  Sampson getting the ball where he can be more effective and not force it.  Significant that the right guys received appropriate minutes.  If there is a decent rotation going forward this may be a turning point.  SJU beat a mediocre team by the right spread....unlike beating a weak SH team by one.  Good signs,  keep it up.   

Sorry to say, this is a mirage. And it isnt the first.
Earlier in the season, there was a strech, beginning in the 2nd half of the Ga Tech game to the Youngstown St game, where the team seemed to adopt a consistent fast passed, run & press oriented offense. Then for reasons i still do not understand, this was dropped when conference play began and the team returned to the slow awkward half court style that they struggled with earlier in season.

Lavin didnt really figure it out then, there is no reason to believe he truly has now. I expect a reversion to the slow ineffective "offense" that gave us a 5 game losing streak.
Expect this current winning streak to be followed by another losing streak.

I disagree with this. I think the difference is in those games that you mentioned, we won because we were playing a whole lot in transition, which we obviously excel at. Yesterday we saw success on offense in stabilized half court sets.

Another difference is that these wins are coming after a series of bad losses, it is much more clear what we are doing right that we weren't doing before. The stretch earlier in the year was a midst a sea of wins (excluding Penn St) and could have gotten lost in the shuffle.

And in regards to the OP, I think we would have beaten Depaul and Providence if we would have played them as the first two games in the BE. Also think we could have gone on to beat Xavier and Nova (the GT game was so far out of our hands). Point being that scheduling, IMO, has a massive amount to do with teams successes.

Cuse takes a lot of heat for always having a very weak out of conference schedule, but I think it allows them to really figure out how they play as a team so when the real games come they know what they want to do.

And in regards to the OP, I think we would have beaten Depaul and Providence if we would have played them as the first two games in the BE. Also think we could have gone on to beat Xavier and Nova (the GT game was so far out of our hands). Point being that scheduling, IMO, has a massive amount to do with teams successes.

Cuse takes a lot of heat for always having a very weak out of conference schedule, but I think it allows them to really figure out how they play as a team so when the real games come they know what they want to do.

Could have, would have, should haves don't mean squat. Let's embrace notion we have not played well enough period. Multiple lineups, poor individual play, not closing out games and spotty coaching have resulted in a disappointing season. Step up and get it done the rest of the way. Butler and SH wins are fine  but time to dig ourselves out of hole we created. PR nonsense about tough BE schedule, February surges, toughest out of conference games etc. are not worth talking about. Just win!

We have good players. As long as coach doesn't intentionally sabotage any games we could win every game we have left. No team we have left to play will have considerably better players. If Lavin plays smart we will win.

And I been thinking it's the players who are sabotaging the coach. Players win games. Please tell me the player who steps up to win us the close game with 2 minutes left on the clock. I remember Dom hitting a shot against St Joes last year. I'll say it again. Players make plays in a big spot. What I hear on this board is all about how Lavin is going to F... it up now. We had a win against Penn St. ans Sampson and Harrison gave it back. We had the ball and a 4 pt lead vs. DePaul and we threw it away. I don't remember it, bet I got to figure our stars handed the game back to Providance when it looked to be ours. It's hard to knock a kid like Harrison because he does so much for us, but down the stretch he's kicking it away, throwing it away, or missing foul shots. If he's going to be capable coming down the stretch Lavs gatta give him less minutes during the game.  No one knows better then Harrison that he has been stinking it up down the stretch. Just recently Sampson has been playing better. Me I would let the rook try to get to the rim. But again, who over the last couple of years wins a game for us? I don't believe I match up with any on this board when it comes to hoop knowledge. But I do know it's up to the players to play. Coach Steve takes way to much crap, and I'm not seeing the players hold up there part of the deal. They come out lazy with their heads up there ass. The coaches get it fixed in time and then, when we're in position to win or at least compete, the game gets tossed. So it's been long enough, who's the guy? 

We have highly ranked players. Are they the best ever no,  if branch makes a mistake it's on him.  If hooper makes a mistake, yes it's his fault. But it's also the coaches fault. Hooper should never cost is a game. In crunch time he should be sitting. Just like me. Walk ons don't start- they don't play. Felix is our 4th best a hooting guard. He shouldn't play unless the 3 before him get hurt.
If Harrison, Jordan , and Sampson are prepared properly and fail to exucute the game plan properly yes it's their fault. However if Jordan plays 14 minutes it's the coaches fault.

If this carries over they could finish 6-5 from here on out and move out of the bottom four with an 8-10 record.  This would give them a shot to win three at MSG in March.

I am not saying they are good enough to do this.  The point is that it is a long season with enough time for a good team to put it together in Feb and March and make the tournament. 

They showed flashes of good play in mid December leading to the Georgetown meltdown.  We'll know by 3 PM Saturday if they revert to crappy play, or give us something to think about.

I just want to have an enjoyable end to January and month of February.   Going 0-5 was miserable.  I think we've dug a hole to big to get out of to make the NCAAs.   But if they could just make the next month and a half interesting, that's enough for me.   No excuses.  I know they won't win them all, but just make it interesting. 

Quote from: STJ11Redmen on January 26, 2014, 12:29:09 PM

Quote from: tnice on January 26, 2014, 12:13:22 PM

Agree with the consensus opinion about baby steps, the quality of the competition, rotation and distribution of minutes and general cautious optimism.

I would add two thoughts. First, the ball movement and more unselfish play isn't as much the product of better plays or better execution. Its a mindset. Branch is the best example; his first inclination is to make a sweet pass on every play. Obviously it leads him to bad decisions every once in a while, but in my experience, its easier to take a kid like that and dial him back a bit than it is to teach a kid who's a me first player to play team ball. You can run all the great plays/offense you want, but in order to hit the open man, you have to actually be looking for him. That sounds ridiculously simplistic, but its something the team has sorely lacked, not only this year but for much of Lavins tenure with this group. There have been a few encouraging signs over the last few games that its starting to happen. Fingers crossed.

Second, as fundamentally sound as Creighton is, this might be the best kind of good team for us to play right now because we're so much more athletic. We used to constantly crush Notre Dame even when they were playing well and were highly ranked for the same reason. Obviously we'll have to play smart AND athletic to beat them, but I think its possible.

We rarely crushed Notre Dame and only beat them at MSG. We were the ones who would get crushed often when we  played them in South Bend.

I didn't look it up but we beat them a number of times (put a whooping on them in MSG) including at ND...they were the type of team that had trouble with our athleticism

yea, Willie Shaw lit them up.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 26, 2014, 03:05:02 PM

We have good players. As long as coach doesn't intentionally sabotage any games we could win every game we have left. No team we have left to play will have considerably better players. If Lavin plays smart we will win.

And I been thinking it's the players who are sabotaging the coach. Players win games. Please tell me the player who steps up to win us the close game with 2 minutes left on the clock. I remember Dom hitting a shot against St Joes last year. I'll say it again. Players make plays in a big spot. What I hear on this board is all about how Lavin is going to F... it up now. We had a win against Penn St. ans Sampson and Harrison gave it back. We had the ball and a 4 pt lead vs. DePaul and we threw it away. I don't remember it, bet I got to figure our stars handed the game back to Providance when it looked to be ours. It's hard to knock a kid like Harrison because he does so much for us, but down the stretch he's kicking it away, throwing it away, or missing foul shots. If he's going to be capable coming down the stretch Lavs gatta give him less minutes during the game.  No one knows better then Harrison that he has been stinking it up down the stretch. Just recently Sampson has been playing better. Me I would let the rook try to get to the rim. But again, who over the last couple of years wins a game for us? I don't believe I match up with any on this board when it comes to hoop knowledge. But I do know it's up to the players to play. Coach Steve takes way to much crap, and I'm not seeing the players hold up there part of the deal. They come out lazy with their heads up there ass. The coaches get it fixed in time and then, when we're in position to win or at least compete, the game gets tossed. So it's been long enough, who's the guy? 

If Jamal Branch played instead of Max Hooper vs Depaul and Providence, we'd be 4-3, and 14-6. Right on the bubble. Coach, coached us out of those games.