Which non in-game coaching event most greatly affected Lav's first 5 years?

Lot of options, interested to see the result.  FYI this is not some sort of poll to act like it's not Lavin's fault (option 4 definitely is, and option 3 kind of implies that it was Dunlap, not Lavin, that had us play so well in year 1, actually). 

Personally I think it's Dunlap's departure.  He seems like an all business guy that cares so much about winning, and was obviously huge to the 2011 team playing well and player development.  If he was still with the staff another 1 or 2 years I think 1) the staff would never have taken it easy on the recruiting trail (not that dunlap would have been signing big time recruits, but that his presence would never have allowed a relaxed year), and 2) our guys would have improved quicker and team would have played better, so we prob make the tourney last year.

I agree about Dunlap leaving but unfortunately I don't think that happens if not for the cancer.  He wouldn't have been head coach and would never have gotten the look to go to the NBA.  When you really think about it, how crazy was it that a college assistant coach was brought in to coach an NBA team.  That would only happen to us.

I agree about Dunlap leaving but unfortunately I don't think that happens if not for the cancer.  He wouldn't have been head coach and would never have gotten the look to go to the NBA.  When you really think about it, how crazy was it that a college assistant coach was brought in to coach an NBA team.  That would only happen to us.

Good point - the cancer I guess started the ball rolling on possibly all of this. 

"Pollitis" is giving me a rash.

completely striking out on the 14 & 15 recruiting classes.

no class of 14. 

"Pollitis" is giving me a rash.

Lucky for you the best way to treat pollitis is to slowly subject yourself to more polls each day until the allergy has been eliminated.  Looks like you'll be free of pollitis within a month! 

The Prostate Cancer.  Think about it.  Year 1 - NCAA with Norm's players.  Year 2 - an entire new team (Stith for half a year) and he misses almost the entire season.  Dunlap coaches.  Lose Gathers (likely due to prostate ca). Year 3 - Dunlap gone during the summer.  I think that all that instability and uncertainty set the program back a couple of years.  Lavin absolutely should have brought more size for this year.  I know that we were involved with Abu  and Delgado, but he should have had realistic plan B's.

The cancer--I had the same operation by the same doctor a few years before Lavin and believe me when he first came back I knew it was too early.  There are also other things you have to deal with and it Impacts your job performance.  You lose enthusiasm until you learn to cope with the associated depression.

I chose option 5.

"Montessori" isn't a coaching style that's going to produce a winning program. We killed Norm, and rightfully so, for being selfish enough to set us up to have 10 seniors at the same time. If Rysheed Jordan and Chris Obekpa leave, we'll be returning a roster of players that didn't score one point in the NCAA game against SDS.

How that is acceptable is beyond me. Either Jordan or Obekpa could go pro. Both are expected to actually, and could probably make it in the NBA or somewhere overseas, but where are the 4 year guys? How can you go into a season where you've returned nothing that you can count on?

Those are all huge.  I think the cancer is probably the biggest thing because of the chain reaction it set off, with dunlap, gathers, etc.  Who knows what else?  Also, the ineligibility of sampson, garrett, pelle was big that year.  It was a really difficult time.

another one is Dom's progression this offseason.  If he doesn't become the player he was this year, there's no chance the team wins 21 games and makes the tournament.  If this year was bad, I think the crowd calling for lavin to be fired is much bigger.

It's definitely the poor recruiting for 14 - 15. If Gathers signs, if we have some legit big men, if we could field a team that could play 8-9 men without a significant drop in talent, guess what we'd be doing this weekend. That trumps all the other answers.

It's definitely the poor recruiting for 14 - 15. If Gathers signs, if we have some legit big men, if we could field a team that could play 8-9 men without a significant drop in talent, guess what we'd be doing this weekend. That trumps all the other answers.

If he didn't have the cancer, we likely would have kept Gathers.  Still goes back to the cancer.

The cancer definitely set us back, as Lavin obviously had more important things to focus on than basketball for about a year. But there was no excuse for having no capable bench players this year, and he deserves all the blame for that. We could have been a special team with a rebounding/defensive specialist coming off the bench. That being said, it's not something he deserves to be fired over.

I swear, this is starting to look like a Jets board with all of the excuses that people used to make for Rex Ryan's ineptitude and the parallels to what's going on with Lavin.

Lavin's been here 5 years. If you think it comes down to one event that most affected his 5 years, then someone's looking for a big, fat excuse. If you want to pick just one, then of course it's the cancer.

I can point to coaches around the country with much lesser recruiting classes and talent that have gotten their team to the big dance almost every season. That tellls you all you need to know. No excuses needed.

I can't believe how accepting people can be of status quo. To each their own.

I can't believe how accepting people can be of status quo. To each their own.

Butler has been to more final fours in the past five years than we have in the last 35 years. I don't think anyone is accepting of being mediocre, but the reality is that is what our program has been. When put in that perspective, Lavin's "record" over the course of his time here isn't really that bad. 

Quote from: Johnny23 on March 23, 2015, 03:44:49 PM

I can't believe how accepting people can be of status quo. To each their own.

Butler has been to more final fours in the past five years than we have in the last 35 years. I don't think anyone is accepting of being mediocre, but the reality is that is what our program has been. When put in that perspective, Lavin's "record" over the course of his time here isn't really that bad.

Can't argue with that. I hope Lavin gets some better sideline coaches for in-game next year.

I think it was Sampson not qualifying on time.  Had he qualified on time, we likely retain Moe for another year and Sampson himself would have been gone in time for us to recruit a replacement (perhaps keep Gathers committed).  Nobody big time PF was coming here with Sampson on the roster.

Maybe somehow my boy Garrett could have been saved. 

Otto Porter was a first team all american and BE poy as a sophomore. You CANNOT tell me that he was a better college player than Moe was. If Moe stays he is BE poy and he is an all american.

You can say that each one of these are connected and caused by one another, but if you look at them as completely separate. Losing Moe was huge. Its really too bad for us. Great for Moe to get drafted. But bad for us.

I think the turning point was how coach handled his illness and recovery.   You can't fault a person for falling ill, but if they're dedicated to the organization they should be expected to make the right decision about when and how they return.
If he couldn't coach in September, he shouldn't have. 
If he was able to come back in February, he should have. 

His wishy-washyness is what cost us on the recruiting trail, and what fed rumors by other coaches.    He needed to send a clear message, and he didn't.