St. Thomas Aquinas Game Thread

Quote from: Poison on November 06, 2015, 09:21:53 AM

Sorry, but you can't fire the coach and then also blame him for what you ended up with. 

Yeah, cause no one ever blamed Norm and his ten senior class for Lavin having an imbalanced roster.

Norm was blamed for everything because he did nothing well. You can't say that about Lavin. I mean you can, but it wouldn't be true. If our starting backcourt was Samir Doughty and Brandon Sampson, would we be picked to finish dead last in the BE?

If our starting backcourt was Samir Doughty and Brandon Sampson, would we be picked to finish dead last in the BE?

Yea

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 11:49:35 PM

I think it's unfair to disparage everything he did here

No it's perfectly fair. He sucked. Won with Norm's players, recruited one class on spec, did nothing in between, unachieved with his seniors, and left the cupboard bare, all the while taking credit for anything that went right while blaming everyone else for his failings. Awful coach, repulsive human being.

Im not as harsh on Lavin as you are. But the fact is Sheed didn't go to classes and wouldn't have qualified and CO wouldn't play by the rules. Other than a few returning little used 2 star players the cupboard was bare. I think Mullin did a good job recruiting ,last minute. That said, We are going to have to play better than we did last night or the current staff will have to be held accountable. This was their first exhibition game and I'll call it first game jitters. But if we lose by 30 points to Wagner , I will be extremely disappointed and wil guarantee a 10 the place finish in the BE. I also feel that level of play will be a big turn off to future recruits and a big cause for concern. Hopefully a different team will come out Sat.

Quote from: Poison on November 06, 2015, 10:47:31 AM

If our starting backcourt was Samir Doughty and Brandon Sampson, would we be picked to finish dead last in the BE?

Yea

I'm not so sure about that.

Quote from: Foad on November 06, 2015, 04:46:47 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 11:49:35 PM

I think it's unfair to disparage everything he did here

No it's perfectly fair. He sucked. Won with Norm's players, recruited one class on spec, did nothing in between, unachieved with his seniors, and left the cupboard bare, all the while taking credit for anything that went right while blaming everyone else for his failings. Awful coach, repulsive human being.

Im not as harsh on Lavin as you are. But the fact is Sheed didn't go to classes and wouldn't have qualified and CO wouldn't play by the rules. Other than a few returning little used 2 star players the cupboard was bare. I think Mullin did a good job recruiting ,last minute. That said, We are going to have to play better than we did last night or the current staff will have to be held accountable. This was their first exhibition game and I'll call it first game jitters. But if we lose by 30 points to Wagner , I will be extremely disappointed and wil guarantee a 10 the place finish in the BE. I also feel that level of play will be a big turn off to future recruits and a big cause for concern. Hopefully a different team will come out Sat.

Let's see how the team responds tomorrow to getting the shit kicked out of them. From what I can tell so far, the 3 walk ons that Lavin brought in would play significant minutes on this team. Myles Stewart and Jay Henderson would help them.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Lavin left 2 guys that was would have been All Big East pre-season selections had they been able to keep them.

Jordan would have been ineligible, had he even returned. And who knows with Obekpa. How much nonsense would we have had to deal with, even if they returned?

Jordan would have been ineligible, had he even returned. And who knows with Obekpa. How much nonsense would we have had to deal with, even if they returned?

I would have been fine with Obekpa's nonsense for one more year. We've put up with far worse.

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

Blaming Lavin for this team being bad is like firing a carpenter midway through building a house and then blaming the carpenter when you move into a house with no roof.

Quote from: thetruth8734 on November 05, 2015, 01:00:23 PM

I don't know about you but if I'm any top recruit

If you're a top recruit that gives hope to a lot of short chubby pasty faced white boys.

I'm actually black so....

2 for 5 directly on the heels of an 0 for 6.   I would say he coached em up a bit.

And putting aside the horse shoe and hand grenade thing,  he was one win and one star suspension from what would have been a freakishly good 4 for 5 that would have ended this argument. 

Woulda - shoulda- coulda.

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

I agree.  Most folks knew there was a chance we could lose all of commits, the returnees, and possibly, lose out on Diallo (who KOB stated probably would've been at St. John's had Lavin been retained), Mussini, and LoVett (thankfully, we still landed the latter two) once Lavin was fired. 

So, of course, there was a high probability the cupboard would be bare for the next coach, per that particular scenario.  There was a lot of people who signed up for that situation, if it meant Lavin getting the axe.  So, most felt and accepted we'd take our lumps for a year or two before things started to shine for the Johnnies.  Frankly, it wouldn't have been a bare group had Lavin been retained, so I don't believe people can absolutely say, he left a barren roster.  That wouldn't have been the case, if he was still coaching. 

I like how Mullin and the staff has made in-road's with the best the tri-state area has to offer, as well, as mining nationally and globally for kids.  As, I stated several months ago, he'll be judged by who he brings in, per recruiting, but most importantly, what he (and, his team) does on the court. 

I didn't watch the game from a couple days ago.  I wasn't home while the game was going on, but occasionally, read reports from JJ and Redmen.  Well....  I did try to watch a few minutes of it, once I returned home, but I was a bit sleepy, and saw the horrific reports concerning the game, so I stopped it around the 15:00 mark of the first half, and went to bed.  I never went back to watch the rest of it, and decided that I'll wipe Wednesday's debacle from my memory, and tune in on Saturday. 

Although, there were a couple of things I read about the game that seemed like headscratchers, I'll let it slide this go around.  Hopefully, those same things doesn't rear its head tomorrow, and are thoroughly minimized the rest of the way.  Mullin gets a pass from me (keyword: me) this season, but I'd like to see incremental improvement throughout the season.  As, long as that happens, then I'll feel we have a chance to get things moving positively the following season, as the youngsters will have some experience under their belt.  Finish off the recruiting with a bang, and we may be good to go in '16'-17.     

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 06, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

I agree.  Most folks knew there was a chance we could lose all of commits, the returnees, and possibly, lose out on Diallo (who KOB stated probably would've been at St. John's had Lavin been retained), Mussini, and LoVett (thankfully, we still landed the latter two) once Lavin was fired. 

So, of course, there was a high probability the cupboard would be bare for the next coach, per that particular scenario.  There was a lot of people who signed up for that situation, if it meant Lavin getting the axe.  So, most felt and accepted we'd take our lumps for a year or two before things started to shine for the Johnnies.  Frankly, it wouldn't have been a bare group had Lavin been retained, so I don't believe people can absolutely say, he left a barren roster.  That wouldn't have been the case, if he was still coaching. 

I like how Mullin and the staff has made in-road's with the best the tri-state area has to offer, as well, as mining nationally and globally for kids.  As, I stated several months ago, he'll be judged by who he brings in, per recruiting, but most importantly, what he (and, his team) does on the court. 

I didn't watch the game from a couple days ago.  I wasn't home while the game was going on, but occasionally, read reports from JJ and Redmen.  Well....  I did try to watch a few minutes of it, once I returned home, but I was a bit sleepy, and saw the horrific reports concerning the game, so I stopped it around the 15:00 mark of the first half, and went to bed.  I never went back to watch the rest of it, and decided that I'll wipe Wednesday's debacle from my memory, and tune in on Saturday. 

Although, there were a couple of things I read about the game that seemed like headscratchers, I'll let it slide this go around.  Hopefully, those same things doesn't rear its head tomorrow, and are thoroughly minimized the rest of the way.  Mullin gets a pass from me (keyword: me) this season, but I'd like to see incremental improvement throughout the season.  As, long as that happens, then I'll feel we have a chance to get things moving positively the following season, as the youngsters will have some experience under their belt.  Finish off the recruiting with a bang, and we may be good to go in '16'-17.     

Good post Dink

I think this is getting over-analyzed to death. I'm equally hungry to watch this team play and develop together, and for the season to start. But it's an exhibition game where our (hopefully) starting PG didn't even play, or our senior guard. Let's just take a deep breath, and enjoy football this weekend.

People are getting ridiculous after one exhibition.  First off, our talent level is overall low compared to Lavin's team last year.  Mullin and Co. did the best they could under these circumstances.  We had a baron roster.  We were left bare by Lavin for sure.  Anybody who doesn't see that is crazy.  We might have landed Brandon Sampson if Lavin stayed, but we weren't going to land Diallo ver Kansas.   Other than that, this is the roster that Lavin left us with and I'm not a Lavin hater like many.  Rasheed was dead in the water academically, and obekpa wasn't going to turn a team around with his offensive talent or lack thereof. 

Mullin has had a few weeks to get an entirely new team playing and we were only able to field 8 guys for that scrimmage.  People need to calm down and realize that this is a massive rebuild and we are picked last in the league for a reason.  We have only one upperclassmen in Durand who has played any significant minutes at a major D1 school.  The rest of our roster are reserves and freshmen.  Some of those freshmen have talent, and so do transfers like Owens and Yakwe, but they're not yet eligible. 

People will have to use some perspective this year.  No amount of coaching is going to turn this thing around in a game or two.  We are too young and inexperienced.  We also lack any talented upperclassmen and are short handed.  I do think we will get better,  but losses like this aren't surprising early.  Half of these guys haven't even played against any college level competition until the other day.  It's not a coaching issue.  Mullin gonna need a lot of time to build this team with requisite talent. 

Quote from: mjdinkins on November 06, 2015, 01:58:56 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 06, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

I agree.  Most folks knew there was a chance we could lose all of commits, the returnees, and possibly, lose out on Diallo (who KOB stated probably would've been at St. John's had Lavin been retained), Mussini, and LoVett (thankfully, we still landed the latter two) once Lavin was fired. 

So, of course, there was a high probability the cupboard would be bare for the next coach, per that particular scenario.  There was a lot of people who signed up for that situation, if it meant Lavin getting the axe.  So, most felt and accepted we'd take our lumps for a year or two before things started to shine for the Johnnies.  Frankly, it wouldn't have been a bare group had Lavin been retained, so I don't believe people can absolutely say, he left a barren roster.  That wouldn't have been the case, if he was still coaching. 

I like how Mullin and the staff has made in-road's with the best the tri-state area has to offer, as well, as mining nationally and globally for kids.  As, I stated several months ago, he'll be judged by who he brings in, per recruiting, but most importantly, what he (and, his team) does on the court. 

I didn't watch the game from a couple days ago.  I wasn't home while the game was going on, but occasionally, read reports from JJ and Redmen.  Well....  I did try to watch a few minutes of it, once I returned home, but I was a bit sleepy, and saw the horrific reports concerning the game, so I stopped it around the 15:00 mark of the first half, and went to bed.  I never went back to watch the rest of it, and decided that I'll wipe Wednesday's debacle from my memory, and tune in on Saturday. 

Although, there were a couple of things I read about the game that seemed like headscratchers, I'll let it slide this go around.  Hopefully, those same things doesn't rear its head tomorrow, and are thoroughly minimized the rest of the way.  Mullin gets a pass from me (keyword: me) this season, but I'd like to see incremental improvement throughout the season.  As, long as that happens, then I'll feel we have a chance to get things moving positively the following season, as the youngsters will have some experience under their belt.  Finish off the recruiting with a bang, and we may be good to go in '16'-17.     

Good post Dink

Ding ding ding. Thank you dinkins for bringing some logical points to this topic.

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

So to recap: it's not fair to blame Lavin because "you can't speculate" about the recruiting he might have done, although it's entirely possible "we land Diallo," which sounds surprisingly like speculation, which you can't do. And also the guy you've never seen play who didn't come here is better than the guy you've never seen play who did. And also leaving Mullin with three players, one of whom is Albivivoivh,  means the cupboard is not bare.

tldr: LOL.

PS I'm not looking to blame anyone. I have no doubt Mullin is going to do great in the long term and in the short IDGAF about some stupid exhibition game. Because I'm not, you know, a big girl's blouse. I don't even GAF about this entire year. They're going to stink. They'll probably even  stink next year. My only purpose here is to point out that Lavin sucked at coaching and was a reprehensible awful dung heap of a human being and that we fans, the university, college basketball, and the great state of New York are well rid of him.

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 06, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

So to recap: it's not fair to blame Lavin because "you can't speculate" about the recruiting he might have done, although it's entirely possible "we land Diallo," which sounds surprisingly like speculation, which you can't do. And also the guy you've never seen play who didn't come here is better than the guy you've never seen play who did. And also leaving Mullin with three players, one of whom is Albivivoivh,  means the cupboard is not bare.

tldr: LOL.

PS I'm not looking to blame anyone. I have no doubt Mullin is going to do great in the long term and in the short IDGAF about some stupid exhibition game. Because I'm not, you know, a big girl's blouse. I don't even GAF about this entire year. They're going to stink. They'll probably even  stink next year. My only purpose here is to point out that Lavin sucked at coaching and was a reprehensible awful dung heap of a human being and that we fans, the university, college basketball, and the great state of New York are well rid of him.

I just said you can't rule out the possibility. And yes, Brandon Sampson is a higher rated recruit than anyone Mullin has landed. That is a fact.

Quote from: Foad on November 06, 2015, 03:34:52 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 06, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

So to recap: it's not fair to blame Lavin because "you can't speculate" about the recruiting he might have done, although it's entirely possible "we land Diallo," which sounds surprisingly like speculation, which you can't do. And also the guy you've never seen play who didn't come here is better than the guy you've never seen play who did. And also leaving Mullin with three players, one of whom is Albivivoivh,  means the cupboard is not bare.

tldr: LOL.

PS I'm not looking to blame anyone. I have no doubt Mullin is going to do great in the long term and in the short IDGAF about some stupid exhibition game. Because I'm not, you know, a big girl's blouse. I don't even GAF about this entire year. They're going to stink. They'll probably even  stink next year. My only purpose here is to point out that Lavin sucked at coaching and was a reprehensible awful dung heap of a human being and that we fans, the university, college basketball, and the great state of New York are well rid of him.

I just said you can't rule out the possibility. And yes, Brandon Sampson is a higher rated recruit than anyone Mullin has landed. That is a fact.

Keeping Lavin for one kid (Sampson) wouldn't have helped us much this year.  We wouldn't have landed Diallo.  We were very lucky to land Mussini and Lovett, two kids we had already been recruiting under Lavin.  We were left with no team at all.  Staff had to pick up the pieces and IMO did a very good job of it.  This season probably won't be a good one, but if Lovett gets cleared we have a better shot at it being a tad better.  Foad is right here though, the path we are on is a better one.  The team will be built around a nice core here, but we will need more than 3 months to recruit a Big East level competitive roster.

Quote from: Foad on November 06, 2015, 03:34:52 PM

Quote from: redstorm212 on November 06, 2015, 12:25:37 PM

It's unfortunate, but it's not Lavin's fault we're this bad. Had Lavin been kept you can't speculate the recruiting he would have done. You can't even rule out the possibility we land Diallo. We also had a top 40 guard signed up who is better than anyone Mullin has landed so far. So stop with the "left the cupboard bare" nonsense. He didn't choose to be fired. You're looking for someone to blame, I get it, and it's not fair to blame Mullin, but you signed up for this when you fired Lavin.

So to recap: it's not fair to blame Lavin because "you can't speculate" about the recruiting he might have done, although it's entirely possible "we land Diallo," which sounds surprisingly like speculation, which you can't do. And also the guy you've never seen play who didn't come here is better than the guy you've never seen play who did. And also leaving Mullin with three players, one of whom is Albivivoivh,  means the cupboard is not bare.

tldr: LOL.

PS I'm not looking to blame anyone. I have no doubt Mullin is going to do great in the long term and in the short IDGAF about some stupid exhibition game. Because I'm not, you know, a big girl's blouse. I don't even GAF about this entire year. They're going to stink. They'll probably even  stink next year. My only purpose here is to point out that Lavin sucked at coaching and was a reprehensible awful dung heap of a human being and that we fans, the university, college basketball, and the great state of New York are well rid of him.

I just said you can't rule out the possibility. And yes, Brandon Sampson is a higher rated recruit than anyone Mullin has landed. That is a fact.

Is he higher rated than Ponds?