Worst loss ever?

Doesn't count in the W-L column so it can only be used as a constructive learning experience. Still an embarrassing outcome but hopefully they improve dramatically from this.

I agree with the others on here, who believe that no exhibition game can be the worst loss ever. 

Worst loss that counted, that I ever attended, was Niagara in the Holiday Festival late 90s.  I think we outrebounded them by about 20 or so, committed something like 10 less turnovers, went to the line double the amount of time they did, and lost by around 25 points because we couldn't buy a bucket, and they couldn't miss. 

That was easily the worst shooting performance we ever had, regardless of what the actual percentage record is for us.  FTR, I think last night's STA team was better then that year's Niagara team.

Since its an exhibition game, it doesn't count  - hard to view it as worse loss ever,,,   still embarrassing though

Exactly Pat. Only exhibition. We all knew it was going to be a tough year. Learn from it and move on. I'm guessing more than a few suicides were run today

Worst loss ever was against PC in Big East tourney. Couldn't make 3 layups

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Again, you're saying that you trust without seeing. No one had actually seen this kid. I'm hopeful that we have the right people in place. But do I trust them? How can we trust a staff that we barely know? I'm not saying that I don't trust or dislike anyone on the staff, but this is an unknown. We don't know what we have in terms of players and coaches.

Are we really doing this already? This wasn't even a game so it couldn't be a loss let alone the worst loss ever. Exhibitions are measured by what your team gets out if it.  We won't know that for a few weeks, but if it helped these guys see their flaws a week earlier and prevents a horrible loss to Wagner and/or UMBC then it was a success.

Get to .500 and try not to be embarrassed so the staff can bring in [more] reinforcements in 2016.

There are enough people outside of the SJU basketball community wishing Mullin and staff to fail...we don't need our own fans adding to the negative energy.

This is a new challenge for Mullin and he will take his lumps, but is there anything about the man that makes you think he will get knocked on his ass and not get up with a vengeance?

I told you right after you asked that the "beast" description was only about his size. He's huge at 6'8 235. I even said that I hoped he played that way. Christian Jones was also a beast for three years and you know I've felt about him.

I am very disappointed with Williams right now. He has the skill to be a menace, but he is severely out of shape and slow as can be. It could very well be the injury, but it is still disappointing because he is the X factor this year IMO and doesn't look close to being able to contribute. Until he does, our front court will be a disaster.

WOrst loss ever was Mid-80s Mullin etal team losing to Niagara.  This was an exhibition and team is woefully young and inexperienced.....embarrassing.....2nd unit should beat a D-2 team.  Expect some bad losses and some surprises too.  Youth.....

Marillac, it's an exhibition so I really don't care about wins or losses, it's how they lost. Couldn't inbound the ball, way to many turnover.

You do agree though that if no improvement against another Div II or III, thgat it will be worrisome, no?

I mean you have to improve somewhat from last night. Atleast I think so.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 07:57:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Again, you're saying that you trust without seeing. No one had actually seen this kid. I'm hopeful that we have the right people in place. But do I trust them? How can we trust a staff that we barely know? I'm not saying that I don't trust or dislike anyone on the staff, but this is an unknown. We don't know what we have in terms of players and coaches.

What is the reason to mistrust this staff at this stage?  Are they positively poor talent evaluators?  Do you not have any confidence in seemingly unbiased reports from seasoned scouts like Jerry Meyer?  I'm a natural skeptic but have some level of faith that Mullin Slice and Matt can identify players who can contribute to this program.  Of course there are tons of unknowns right now. Embrace it and enjoy the ride or you'll be miserable.

I've seen plenty of bad games from our team over the years and this one doesn't keep me up at night but it was the worst game I ever saw ( thankfully on espn3 ). The game didn't mean anything so that was great but even with virtually no expectations since it was our coaches 1st game and all the new kids playing together for the 1st time the 1 expectation I did have was not to be blown out by a d2 team at home. Heck is there a better term to use that's stronger than blowout ? But it was an exhibition game so unlike so many other sju losses that have kept me up at night this one I find more humor in.

Hopefully we have a better showing on saturday and you can put me in the camp that would like to see our coach stand up and bark out some orders or at least words of encouragement

Today is a new day. 1 day at a time

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 08:10:39 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 07:57:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Again, you're saying that you trust without seeing. No one had actually seen this kid. I'm hopeful that we have the right people in place. But do I trust them? How can we trust a staff that we barely know? I'm not saying that I don't trust or dislike anyone on the staff, but this is an unknown. We don't know what we have in terms of players and coaches.

What is the reason to mistrust this staff at this stage?  Are they positively poor talent evaluators?  Do you not have any confidence in seemingly unbiased reports from seasoned scouts like Jerry Meyer?  I'm a natural skeptic but have some level of faith that Mullin Slice and Matt can identify players who can contribute to this program.  Of course there are tons of unknowns right now. Embrace it and enjoy the ride or you'll be miserable.

I didn't say that I didn't trust the staff. I said that I didn't know the staff. No one does. I just said that I don't.
But if you really want a reason, a 32 point loss at home to a team that even a bad St.John's team should beat is cause for concern. It's one thing to not have enough depth or talent, but the players played like they were new to the game in addition to being new to the team.

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 09:00:11 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 08:10:39 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 07:57:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Again, you're saying that you trust without seeing. No one had actually seen this kid. I'm hopeful that we have the right people in place. But do I trust them? How can we trust a staff that we barely know? I'm not saying that I don't trust or dislike anyone on the staff, but this is an unknown. We don't know what we have in terms of players and coaches.

What is the reason to mistrust this staff at this stage?  Are they positively poor talent evaluators?  Do you not have any confidence in seemingly unbiased reports from seasoned scouts like Jerry Meyer?  I'm a natural skeptic but have some level of faith that Mullin Slice and Matt can identify players who can contribute to this program.  Of course there are tons of unknowns right now. Embrace it and enjoy the ride or you'll be miserable.

I didn't say that I didn't trust the staff. I said that I didn't know the staff. No one does. I just said that I don't.
But if you really want a reason, a 32 point loss at home to a team that even a bad St.John's team should beat is cause for concern. It's one to not have enough depth or talent, but the players played like they were new to the game in addition to being new to the team.

I don't know why the thumbs up button disappeared but I'd give you 2 for this

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 09:00:11 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 08:10:39 PM

Quote from: Gray Chudney on November 05, 2015, 07:57:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 07:49:21 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 07:24:16 PM

Quote from: desco80 on November 05, 2015, 06:45:31 PM

The better question is, was this the worst you've seen a St Johns team play/perform?   Other losses were undoubtedly "worse", because of the context.

But has SJU ever played worse?     I can't remember seeing it.    As 212 said, that was the worse I've ever seen a D1 team play.   And that includes NJIT and UTAP from a few years ago, who were new to D1.

I was there last night, just sitting there in disbelief the whole game. Where was Johnson, our supposed leader? or Williams, who was supposed to be a beast according to Marillac? Ron threw a couple ball away.
How many turnovers did they have just trying to inbound the ball?   Maybe it's one of those games that you just throw in the garbage and forget about.
BUT
If there's no improvement and play just as bad on Saturday, then I don't care if it's an exhibition or not, I'll be worried.
We'll  find out in 2 days.

How can anyone know if a player is a beast without having seen them play?

Marillac is really getting killed for that.  Jerry Meyer at 247 had him as a 4 star recruit and one of the best juco transfers, and Rothstein recently tweeted that other BE coaches felt he was the best get in the incoming class.  We've seen 1 exhibition game and an intrasquad scrimmage, and the kid is coming off of an injury.  He's not a transcendent talent or a one and done type kid, so I'm not sure what the expectations should be.  But I trust the staff and the scouting report until we see a lot more.

Again, you're saying that you trust without seeing. No one had actually seen this kid. I'm hopeful that we have the right people in place. But do I trust them? How can we trust a staff that we barely know? I'm not saying that I don't trust or dislike anyone on the staff, but this is an unknown. We don't know what we have in terms of players and coaches.

What is the reason to mistrust this staff at this stage?  Are they positively poor talent evaluators?  Do you not have any confidence in seemingly unbiased reports from seasoned scouts like Jerry Meyer?  I'm a natural skeptic but have some level of faith that Mullin Slice and Matt can identify players who can contribute to this program.  Of course there are tons of unknowns right now. Embrace it and enjoy the ride or you'll be miserable.

I didn't say that I didn't trust the staff. I said that I didn't know the staff. No one does. I just said that I don't.
But if you really want a reason, a 32 point loss at home to a team that even a bad St.John's team should beat is cause for concern. It's one to not have enough depth or talent, but the players played like they were new to the game in addition to being new to the team.

You literally asked "how can we trust [the] staff"

Look I am with you. 32 point loss to a D2 team is disgusting. We have no way to know with certainty if the staff or the new players are any good. Have faith or be frustrated because this year will be a struggle.

To be perfectly clear - I've posted previously that this particular head coach gets a "Lifetime Pass" with me. 

He could lose every single game forever and I'll never turn on him.  He's my all-time Mfp and the Johnny hero for the ages.  I'll NEVER turn on him.

But looking at the numbers, 32, as in deficit at home; and 2, as in division - render this the worst defeat I can recall.  Including exhibition games obviously.

Marillac, it's an exhibition so I really don't care about wins or losses, it's how they lost. Couldn't inbound the ball, way to many turnover.

You do agree though that if no improvement against another Div II or III, thgat it will be worrisome, no?

I mean you have to improve somewhat from last night. Atleast I think so.

The team and the staff both needed to get smacked in the face like they did to understand where they really stand.  Mullin said it himself that he thought the team was more prepared than they were and was wrong.  What does the poor guy have to go on as a baseline?  He's going to take his lumps this year because he's in a nearly impossible situation to succeed year one.  He has no coaching experience, doesn't know the new Big East or the modern college game,  and has no personal experience with any of the current teams and their players.  The reason we all wanted Mullin was because we know how he'll respond to getting smacked in the face this year, and that is by outworking his competition in every facet of coaching for next year. 

He gets a complete pass this year.  The freshmen all look fantastic and I won't start to worry until that changes through injury, ineligibility, transfer, or some combination.  Every single frosh is at or beyond where I expected, and their development is all that really matters going into 2016 when more troops (Yakwe, Ponds, Owens, etc.) come aboard.  College basketball is all about continuity.