Missing Pieces Longer term

I think Owens is going to be a lot better than people think.  He can handle the ball and pass extremely well for a 6'10"+ kid.  Maybe just a scrimmage, but he is a gazelle getting up and down, with really good hands and good passing.  He also showed ability to score.  I think he will be higher up the depth chart than people think.  Just a gut feeling. 

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 10:54:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair.

Comparing him to an NBA SG/SF that is known as a shutdown defender isn't fair.  If he's any more than the fourth big we turn to next year than things won't be going too well.  He'll block some shots and snag some boards, but don't expect him to do score points or play 20 mpg.

I think he'll be better than advertised. I saw a smart big man, and it was noticeable because we've got some guys that think slow on the court like Amar, Darien and Chris. Owens is better than they are. But we'll see.

I saw a kid with poor hands that didn't understand how to make himself open as opposed to guys like Sima, Mussini, et al. that demonstrated they understood angles.  He showed he could block shots and get some boards and that he's really, really skinny.  He played an entire season for an underwhelming Tennessee team and did very little.  10-12 mpg player next year.

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 10:43:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

How is Williams ahead of anyone on our team? I can understand the hesitation to make Owens our starting PF after the Red White game, but we've seen Williams, and he wasn't to keep up with Wagner and UBMC.

I like Williams a lot. His frame, long strides, soft touch. I see a lot of potential in him and not really judging off his play first few games. He's still adjusting and finding his place on the team which doesn't always happen in November.

I think Owens is going to be a lot better than people think.  He can handle the ball and pass extremely well for a 6'10"+ kid.  Maybe just a scrimmage, but he is a gazelle getting up and down, with really good hands and good passing.  He also showed ability to score.  I think he will be higher up the depth chart than people think.  Just a gut feeling. 

I've watched Owens since he is a sophomore in high school. He's kind of like a taller Felix in a sense. He's got high major athleticism with mid major skill. You take a chance on a kid like that because if his skills catch up to his athleticism then you got something. I think he's going to be very good fit for St. John's. He'll play with high motor and will run rim to rim better than most bigs in conference.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

5th doesn't sound very impressive in this group.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 10:43:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

5th doesn't sound very impressive in this group.

Why not? Sima and Yakwe are gonna be two of the best in conference. Jones 5th year senior and Williams just needs some polish. Being 5 deep up front is something this team hasn't had in a while.

That's more depth than Burrell, Brownlee, Evans, Coker which was pretty solid up front.

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

Wait a minute, are you trying to say that Mussini's great game against Chaminade doesn't mean much? Because you should know that 6 years ago Chaminade beat UCLA. Phil Greene also has no court vision. I think Mussini has court vision, but he doesn't have Harrison and Harkless to throw the ball to. We need guys right now with a high basketball IQ to offset our lack of athleticism and overall talent. I would have liked that to be Amar and Christian, but they play like freshman who just started playing organized ball.

Quote from: tominsimsbury on November 30, 2015, 08:50:22 AM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 10:43:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

5th doesn't sound very impressive in this group.

Why not? Sima and Yakwe are gonna be two of the best in conference. Jones 5th year senior and Williams just needs some polish. Being 5 deep up front is something this team hasn't had in a while.

That's more depth than Burrell, Brownlee, Evans, Coker which was pretty solid up front.

Sima and Yakwe I get, not the other 2.

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/phil-greene-1/gamelog/2012/

Phil Greene was perhaps better than expected coming out of the gate in comparison to his highly ranked counterparts but it's tough to compare what he did to what Mussini has done. Greene actually played better as the season went on.

Greene scored in double figures twice in out of conference play and 12 times on season. Mussini has done it 5 times in 5 games.

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

While Greene was more physically gifted his freshman year, Mussini is not stranger to physical play. However I do agree with you that he will see a lot more pressure and he'll have some struggles.

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:47:54 AM

Quote from: tominsimsbury on November 30, 2015, 08:50:22 AM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 10:43:19 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 29, 2015, 09:11:28 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 07:20:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 29, 2015, 06:10:18 PM

Quote from: Marillac on November 29, 2015, 06:01:50 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 28, 2015, 04:22:21 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 28, 2015, 02:39:02 PM

Quote from: hnk on November 28, 2015, 01:04:38 PM

I agree that's where we are hopefully likely to be.....and that leaves us with great talent (including Ponds, Yakwe)...but two very small point guards and no wide body inside.  Owens seems like a great kid from watching him on sidelines etc, but he's a finesse player.  I wish we had a little more size (lbs.)......so we don't get muscled by the good teams.....By the way, I think Bashir will be a good rebounder,,,but I'd still hope for  a little more size.

Owens is not a finesse player. He's all hustle and bounce.

I agree. He reminds me of Trevor Ariza.

I'm afraid you are going to be very disappointed then.

He's a poor man's Hakim Warrick

He's a middle class man's Tyler Jones.  RIP.

He's better than Darien Williams. He's better than Amar Alibegovic. And he's probably better right now than any PF we've got. Tyler Jones comparison isn't fair. Owens knows the game. He's not only able to contribute if his teammate sets him up. Ask around. He's going to play, and he's going to be an important part of the team.

I think Owens is probably a rotational big. I'd see him 5th in pecking order on team now with Sima, Jones, Yakwe, and Williams ahead.

5th doesn't sound very impressive in this group.

Why not? Sima and Yakwe are gonna be two of the best in conference. Jones 5th year senior and Williams just needs some polish. Being 5 deep up front is something this team hasn't had in a while.

That's more depth than Burrell, Brownlee, Evans, Coker which was pretty solid up front.

Sima and Yakwe I get, not the other 2.

It's close. I think hot hand, matchups will dictate a lot but I wouldn't throw Owens clearly above any of them is my point.

Jones might be a graduate transfer candidate.  Perhaps a Texas school offers him a starting spot closer to home with less competition for minutes.

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

*Next 3 years.

was counting this year

Jones might be a graduate transfer candidate.  Perhaps a Texas school offers him a starting spot closer to home with less competition for minutes.

Not out of the question

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

To your last point about Phil being bigger, stronger, and faster than Feddy. All those advantages and still Mussini at this point is better at getting in the lane then Phil ever was. 

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 30, 2015, 09:34:34 AM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

To your last point about Phil being bigger, stronger, and faster than Feddy. All those advantages and still Mussini at this point is better at getting in the lane then Phil ever was. 

I think Mussini is similar to Arci of Nova and I would be glad to have a player of that caliber.  While Arci is not a star on his own, he is a star in a team concept--makes others better and they make him better--not someone who can do it all on his own game in and game out.  Arci averaged around 12 a game as a frosh and played a lot of minutes; something Mussini is definitely capable of.  Mussini's int'l experience is definitely a plus that a lot of US HS ballers don't have.

It didn't see the chaminade game. I am not trying to knock mussini, but I think he is going have a very tough time. I assume every coach is going to get physical with him and pressure him with multiple people. Any coach that doesn't is a fool in my opinion . I hope he handles the pressure better then I expect. If Rutgers would have put more pressure on him, I think they win last week.

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Back to missing pieces all that is missing is two McDAA