Missing Pieces Longer term

It didn't see the chaminade game. I am not trying to knock mussini, but I think he is going have a very tough time. I assume every coach is going to get physical with him and pressure him with multiple people. Any coach that doesn't is a fool in my opinion . I hope he handles the pressure better then I expect. If Rutgers would have put more pressure on him, I think they win last week.

He went up against two NBA prospects in Wade Baldwin and Yogi Ferrell and played better than good. He's gonna be fine in conference play.

Quote from: TONYD3 on November 30, 2015, 12:39:58 PM

It didn't see the chaminade game. I am not trying to knock mussini, but I think he is going have a very tough time. I assume every coach is going to get physical with him and pressure him with multiple people. Any coach that doesn't is a fool in my opinion . I hope he handles the pressure better then I expect. If Rutgers would have put more pressure on him, I think they win last week.

He went up against two NBA prospects in Wade Baldwin and Yogi Ferrell and played better than good. He's gonna be fine in conference play.

I hope so .

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Phil Greene took and still takes a lot abuse, but he's actually one of the only 4 year players that Lavin brought in who put his head down and worked hard. In the end, he became a valuable role player for us but it took time. I don't see Mussini's trajectory headed in that direction. This team needs him to be the go to guy right now.

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Phil Greene took and still takes a lot abuse, but he's actually one of the only 4 year players that Lavin brought in who put his head down and worked hard. In the end, he became a valuable role player for us but it took time. I don't see Mussini's trajectory headed in that direction. This team needs him to be the go to guy right now.

Phil wasn't a PG and that's why he took some heat from fans. Kid was a warrior and I think everyone here respects the hell out of him for what he accomplished at St. John's in 4 years.

Mussini has been excellent already.  He is only a freshman and has been extremely poised.  What he's really missing is some talent around him.  Playing the PG this season will make him a much better player.  Our backcourt will be downright dangerous next season if he's able to
Move off the ball and we have him like a second PG out there with Lovett and Ponds.  Teams will be at a loss trying to guard this backcourt overall.

everyone here respects the hell out of him for what he accomplished at St. John's in 4 years.

Um.

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Phil Greene took and still takes a lot abuse, but he's actually one of the only 4 year players that Lavin brought in who put his head down and worked hard. In the end, he became a valuable role player for us but it took time. I don't see Mussini's trajectory headed in that direction. This team needs him to be the go to guy right now.

I don't see much difference between Lawrence, who you disparage, and Greene who you laud.

7.9 ppg / .419 FG / .299 3pt / .69 FT / 3.8 reb / 4.5 asst / 196 steals

9.6 pps / .421 FG / .325 3 pt / .70 FT / 2.8 reb / 2.2 asst / 113 steals

Greene played on a better team with an allegedly better coach. And yet they're virtually identical - except Lawrence was a better rebounder, passer and defender. Plus he had sac, which you allegedly cherish.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 04:05:41 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Phil Greene took and still takes a lot abuse, but he's actually one of the only 4 year players that Lavin brought in who put his head down and worked hard. In the end, he became a valuable role player for us but it took time. I don't see Mussini's trajectory headed in that direction. This team needs him to be the go to guy right now.

I don't see much difference between Lawrence, who you disparage, and Greene who you laud.

7.9 ppg / .419 FG / .299 3pt / .69 FT / 3.8 reb / 4.5 asst / 196 steals

9.6 pps / .421 FG / .325 3 pt / .70 FT / 2.8 reb / 2.2 asst / 113 steals

Greene played on a better team with an allegedly better coach. And yet they're virtually identical - except Lawrence was a better rebounder, passer and defender. Plus he had sac, which you allegedly cherish.

There really isn't much difference that season. The biggest difference is that your boy Norm had Geno just going through the motions by his senior season. Every game he was immediately on his way to whatever 40 point blow out loss was up next. And Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

All of that happened once he started playing almost entirely off the ball.

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 04:51:30 PM

everyone here respects the hell out of him for what he accomplished at St. John's in 4 years.

Um.

-Unheralded kid out of rough neighborhood in Chicago.
-Played significant min all 4 years and got better each one.
-Always played hard and thru injury.
-Great ambassador o f the school.
-Still reppin' SJU overseas.

We can bust balls about his jumper or lack of assists but he definitely earned respect.

Phil Greene is an all time fave. I would argue that he meant more for the team than anyone else.

Phil Greene is the man.

He was the one constant. The rock. Now it makes sense: Hammer to Rock, and the fan base is the hammer.

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 02:13:17 AM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 12:07:52 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on November 29, 2015, 11:02:27 PM

Its great that we have Owens, a 6'10 athlete, for the next 4 years. I'm excited to see him next year and think he showed some nice skills in the red/white game. Really think people need to slow down though. Poison, after the first exhibition game you thought Mussini was just about good enough to make Lincoln's varsity team. Now you are singing his praises. With an even smaller sample you're comparing Owens to Trevor Ariza.

Mussini has improved as a scorer. Not so much as a point guard or a defender. I'm obviously happy with his improvement, however, since you brought it up, we still don't know if he's ready for the BE. Hopefully, he'll continue to improve. No offense to Trevor Ariza, but I never thought he was Magic Johnson, so IMO this comparison isn't a big deal in the least. I liked the way Owens was able to face the basket, and make smart decisions. From what I saw, he's able to play the 3, 4 or the 5.

Mussini had 7 steals over 2 game span against Vandy + Indy. More than held his own in all aspects of the game. He had one swipe in transition that was a thing of beauty. His hands are really quick and active and his instincts in passing lanes are great. His lack of strength is fixable but that is really only major flaw in his defense that I see.

I think Mussini is going to get beat up in the big east. All the teams will have scouting reports on him. I think they are going to constantly pressure him and wear him down. This board was very happy with Phil Greene his freshman year at PG until the conference started. Mussini is a better shooter at this stage then Greene, but Phil was bigger, stronger , and faster.

I like Phil as much as anyone (besides Carmine), but there really is no comparing him and Mussini if we are being honest  Mussini creates for himself and others.  Phil could get his shot off at will around 15-18, but he did not make a lot of shots off the bounce.  It's a rare ability.  Harrison had it.  Mussini has it.  Mussini can pullup in a fast break and consistently drill a three.  Phill needed to be completely set and in rhythm--he relied on others. Also, Phil was not on the same level as Mussini getting to the basket.  Court vision is obviously not comparable either. Phil was the better defender, but it's not like he ever locked anyone down until the very end of games when he just morphed into a stopper out of nowhere.  He got beat very regularly.

It's unfair the way Phil was used by the staff and ridiculed on SJU forums.  Mussini is already a better offensive option than Greene although I do think Greene would be better off with this staff than Lavin's group and we'd certainly be better off with him. 

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 05:59:35 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 04:05:41 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 03:28:39 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 03:17:02 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 30, 2015, 12:52:11 PM

Quote from: Dave on November 30, 2015, 10:59:29 AM

Greene had 20 made threes on the season. Mussini currently has 16.

And Greene made 26 FTs all year. FM currently has 22.

And Greene shot 39 percent from the floor and 26 percent from 3. Mussini 45 and 38.

Mussini is already better than Greene was as a senior.

Greene was a scoring guard forced to play the point. He was sold in as a combo guard. He wasn't. Mussini has more overall skill. He really is a combo guard. They really shouldn't be compared. Their games are not comparable. A better comparison would be Eugene Lawrence, and thankfully, Mussini is better than he was.

The comparison is fair to the extent that they're both playing out of position as freshmen. Their games are not comparable because Phil Greene had one skill and he wasn't very good at it.

Phil Greene took and still takes a lot abuse, but he's actually one of the only 4 year players that Lavin brought in who put his head down and worked hard. In the end, he became a valuable role player for us but it took time. I don't see Mussini's trajectory headed in that direction. This team needs him to be the go to guy right now.

I don't see much difference between Lawrence, who you disparage, and Greene who you laud.

7.9 ppg / .419 FG / .299 3pt / .69 FT / 3.8 reb / 4.5 asst / 196 steals

9.6 pps / .421 FG / .325 3 pt / .70 FT / 2.8 reb / 2.2 asst / 113 steals

Greene played on a better team with an allegedly better coach. And yet they're virtually identical - except Lawrence was a better rebounder, passer and defender. Plus he had sac, which you allegedly cherish.

There really isn't much difference that season. The biggest difference is that your boy Norm had Geno just going through the motions by his senior season. Every game he was immediately on his way to whatever 40 point blow out loss was up next. And Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

All of that happened once he started playing almost entirely off the ball.

Those are their career averages..

Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

Now you're just making things up. He shot .39 percent from three - hardly a terrific clip - and made 39 FTs all year - so he wasn't going to the basket, which is just as well because he was about an average FT shooter. At 72 percent he was the worst of the four seniors. He wasn't among the best anything in the nation and certainly not one of the best role players, which is an unquantifiable metric and in Greene's case an absurd characterization. He was good for three minutes in December, that's about it.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 06:26:20 PM

Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

Now you're just making things up. He shot .39 percent from three - hardly a terrific clip - and made 39 FTs all year - so he wasn't going to the basket, which is just as well because he was about an average FT shooter. At 72 percent he was the worst of the four seniors. He wasn't among the best anything in the nation and certainly not one of the best role players, which is an unquantifiable metric and in Greene's case an absurd characterization. He was good for three minutes in December, that's about it.

Where did Phil Greene rank among his BE peers in 3 point shooting percentage?

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 06:26:20 PM

Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

Now you're just making things up. He shot .39 percent from three - hardly a terrific clip - and made 39 FTs all year - so he wasn't going to the basket, which is just as well because he was about an average FT shooter. At 72 percent he was the worst of the four seniors. He wasn't among the best anything in the nation and certainly not one of the best role players, which is an unquantifiable metric and in Greene's case an absurd characterization. He was good for three minutes in December, that's about it.

He had an effective FG % above 50 and was one of the best in the country at TO%. For a team lacking depth, his steadiness was important last season.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 06:26:20 PM

Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

Now you're just making things up. He shot .39 percent from three - hardly a terrific clip - and made 39 FTs all year - so he wasn't going to the basket, which is just as well because he was about an average FT shooter. At 72 percent he was the worst of the four seniors. He wasn't among the best anything in the nation and certainly not one of the best role players, which is an unquantifiable metric and in Greene's case an absurd characterization. He was good for three minutes in December, that's about it.

Quote from: Poison on November 30, 2015, 06:26:20 PM

Greene, by the time he became a senior, was one of the best role players in the nation, hitting threes at a terrific clip, making free throws, and even going strong to the basket and finishing.

Now you're just making things up. He shot .39 percent from three - hardly a terrific clip - and made 39 FTs all year - so he wasn't going to the basket, which is just as well because he was about an average FT shooter. At 72 percent he was the worst of the four seniors. He wasn't among the best anything in the nation and certainly not one of the best role players, which is an unquantifiable metric and in Greene's case an absurd characterization. He was good for three minutes in December, that's about it.

Ufoad- you are right. But we stick up for him and like him because he was one of our players.  Why would someone spend so much time on a St. John's fan board and hate St. John's players. Are you a rube?