Depaul game thread

Lavin is a goner, no need to rehash everything he did. We have a better staff now and a great class coming in. Give the staff and players some time and will be surprised if the program isn't at its best point in many years sooner then later. Look to the future not the past.

Wow I can't believe that someone has gotten Ted, Poison, Baldi, and Foad to agree on something.  One of the biggest achievements of the year!!  PS--this gang of 4 has nailed it.

Im the delusional one here? all i am pointing out is that mistakes were made as what happens on most teams. But the bottom line is even with some of the rough patches we became relevant again. And I think the school mismanaged the Lav situation entirely. I would have given him 2 more years especially after an NCAA Tournament before going to Mullin.

And people have claimed to be insider really do not have the full story and were not involved with the program other than being a fan.

And just to clarify I never said this year we were going to be a tournament team even if those guys stayed with Lav I said we would have been far better thats the extent of it. Stop putting words in my mouth. We would not even have been competitive the past few seasons without ppl like Sheed, Chris, Dlo the ones that had the character issues. You take the good with the bad and DLo did turn it around. Once you have a Kentucky like program or Nova you can afford to not take risks but we were not there not even close -Lav had to work from the bottom up.

And honestly that Kentucky game we were overmatched with a shorthanded squad, my point was that if the class was intact and came as it should have we could have won that game. Id take Moe, Jakarr, DLo, Nuri, Phil. Dom, Gift, Norvel, Amir any day in that matchup and at the very least even if they lost would have been close.

And finally as for the Robert Morris game in the NIT I agree that was bad all around from coaching, body language etc.n Just being close with the team I knew something like that was bound to happen.  But there is a part of me that doesnt blame them for not wanting any part of that game after such a letdown end of season.  I argue that the the team should have not even accepted the NIT invite and used the NCAA spurning as motivation for next season rather than taking the court in a game you want no part of and embarrassing yourselves and the school.

And its crazy talk to assume coaching changes create more instability in the locker room? I know Chris and Adonis had pre-existing issues but its not a stretch to see things boil over into explosion with those 2  when there is instability and uncertainty surrounding a program you are part of.  Especially when the Coaches who recruited you and had a connection with are gone. Mullin had no prior relationship with them to even set a tone and cut down on some tensions that may have arisen whether it started from a practice or whatever. 

It was not uncommon to see Rico or Lav and other coaches to pull guys aside during practice if something was just heated or was about to get to that point. They would sit them down and try to cool things off-but that relationship was different than one a new staff brings because they do not know you and have never coached you before.

Oh yes, he made us so "relevant" and "brought the program back" so well that he left it with 3 mid-major players and 2 players with a long-listed and documented history of dumb and immature actions who any sane coach wouldn't want NEAR a young team to lead them.  Tremendous relevance **golf clap**. And 2 of his 3 verbal commits last year are non-factors at their current school. Actually all 3 are, but I'll concede that Brandon Sampson would certainly have been an immediate factor here.

And please, if some of us "non-insiders" don't have the full story on certain things then feel free to enlighten us on the backstory behind players and incidents. 

His first 2 recruiting classes were terrific but he certainly seemed to lose an edge in terms of his hustle and work ethic (which, if its because of the cancer, is totally understandable, but he should've left the job and gone back to TV if he was gonna half-ass it). Look at what Pat Forde and Jeff Goodman said: using phrases like "low-motor" to describe him which basically translates to "lazy" when being brutally honest.

Coaches in the 5th year of their program do not need to be taking a number of qualifying question marks like the last coach did.  In fact, I believe he went out to get kids like Keith Thomas, Adonis, and even recruited guys like Lovett because of the fact that he knew they would be relatively easy kids to get to commit without little work because most other schools didn't recruit them with their grades/SATs being suspect. Even during the Amar and Mussing recruitments, Lavin went with his wife on a multi-day "recruiting trip" on university dime in which he was instagramming tons of pictures from museums in Italy while there.  And I'll tell you what, Lavin and his staff got VERY lucky that the Keith Thomas transcript incident was caught before he ever played in any games, because if he did play and this came out later, they and the school would be looking at major trouble with the NCAA. Tell me, what legitimate coaching staff goes out and picks up a recruits transcript from a shopping center parking lot??

Theo not even worth wasting the time to respond anymore.  I went back and looked at the 20 or so posts from this guy.  Every single one is aimed at disparaging our current staff in favor of the prior regime.  This is all agenda filled nonsense, a la others we've seen in the past.  No one who is a fan of this program can be happy with Lavin's recruiting his final 2 years, all of the drama that transpired, the roster that was left behind, and with the 2013-2014 debacle and how that freaking team couldn't make the tourney with as many talented upperclassmen as it had.

Listen this guy was a part of the team, I get his devotion to Lavin and his staff. Does it sound ridiculous, yes obviously. But I do know some people would still rather have Lavin as the coach, my girlfriend is one of them and it's maddening.

I support the current staff and would be happy with either Mullin or Lavin as the coach. But, I think Lavin was treated extremely unfairly both by the administration and this board and did not deserve to be let go. The drama with Lavin was bad, I'll admit that, but also was overblown with baseless speculation or insinuations by certain posters that would never come to fruition, or could not be proven true. The recruiting was still solid as he had Sampson, and most likely would have still landed quite a few of the guys Mullin did (Lovett, Mussini, Yakwe).

Lavin wasn't perfect, but he was a positive for SJU. Three 20 win seasons in 5 years is something every single person here would have signed up for at his hiring. People here hate him and I accept that but will never totally understand it.

I think people focus on he wrong things -- the proof is in the pudding. We can compare mullin to lavin after mullin has had a few years to recruit and coach so we can see what his record is. We know lavin took us to 2 ncaas in 5 years and had a third decent year that unfortunately ended in an nit. If mullin does better than that over a similar span, that it was good to make the move. I think everyone that is trying to predict which is better is really just guessing because mullin isn't a known commodity as a coach, but we want to think he'll be great because he was such a beloved player here.  For those that are supporting lavin, I think the reason comes down to his relative success on the court, the current season, and the fact that the lavin haters would rather focus on transcripts, vacation habits, and the coaches' personal lives than the product on the court.  Even during lavin's bad years, he had some exciting players (harkless was so fun to watch) and there was always the threat to win. I think this year is the first one since norm was here that it is just hard to go to games because the team is so overmatched.

(Ftr, I thought it was ok to fire lavin, b/c he really should have been able to get at least one ncaa win in his 5 years, but I would have been fine with keeping him too. I also thought mullin was the best name I heard during the coaching search, so unreality don't have a dog in this fight. Just think people on both sides in this thread are being ridiculous)

Lavin was treated extremely unfairly both by the administration and this board

Lavin was paid about 10 million dollars to do a job he "felt no pressure" to succeed at. Then, when he didn't succeed, he was paid several million more to stop. And all the while dressed in a sweat suit and sneakers. That doesn't really sound at all "unfair." In fact, it sounds like a pretty sweet deal.

Lavin haters?Recruiting players with questionable transcripts and not making relationships with any coaches in the city isn't hating on Lavin, that's merely fact.

Furthermore, the biggest red flag to me about Lavin was having that group of kids who were together for 3-4 years (DLo, Greene, Pointer, Obekpa) and never seeing marked improvements in their team's results by the time the 14-15 season came around. The Johnnies were a borderline NCAA team last year when most reasonable fans would've expected a group that had been together for so long to play a much more cohesive brand of basketball by the time last season rolled around and be a tough out in the big dance. This was not the case and they still looked very helter skelter for the most part and barely made the dance. That right there told me Lavin is not the right head coach for the job as many of the players got stangant and didn't show much improvement  playing together (outside of Pointer) over a 3-4 year period.

the lavin haters would rather focus on transcripts, vacation habits, and the coaches' personal lives than the product on the court.

If the product on the court wasn't what could be described at best as pretty lousy - one  post season win in five years is one more than Norm had - few people would have been focused on the staff's fraudulent recruiting practices, serial infidelities, and family vacations disguised as recruiting trips. The fact is that those practices and others like them either led directly to the on court mediocrity or were a reflection of the contempt Lavin and his staff displayed for the university that allowed them to express satisfaction with the mediocre results.

Bobby Huggins can wear sweat suits and vomit on policemen because he wins. Mike Shrewshrenski can run up the clock when it strikes one because he wins. Lavin didn't win and it didn't affect his appetite in the slightest because he didn't care. You know what he cares about? Being on TV. Know how I can tell? He wears a shirt and tie.

Lavin left the program a mess. Gangbangers fighting in the shower, players taking swings at assistant coaches, half the team doing bong hits before the most important games of their lives...it goes on and on. His tenure at St. John's was like one long episode of OZ

This is all agenda filled nonsense

This particular quote can be stated for people who always or continue to rail Lavin, as well.  Eventually, it comes off as pettiness. 

FOJ posts can be over-the-top, but as "Harkless" stated (paraphrased), he was a part of the team, so there will be some undying devotion.

I support the current staff and would be happy with either Mullin or Lavin as the coach. But, I think Lavin was treated extremely unfairly both by the administration and this board and did not deserve to be let go. The drama with Lavin was bad, I'll admit that, but also was overblown with baseless speculation or insinuations by certain posters that would never come to fruition, or could not be proven true. The recruiting was still solid as he had Sampson, and most likely would have still landed quite a few of the guys Mullin did (Lovett, Mussini, Yakwe).

Lavin wasn't perfect, but he was a positive for SJU. Three 20 win seasons in 5 years is something every single person here would have signed up for at his hiring. People here hate him and I accept that but will never totally understand it.

I'm right there with you, per this post, '212.

Wow PRJohnnies looking up past posts just to hate on me. Clearly he is selective in what he reads. My points have just been that Lav should have been more fairly assessed and that this season was disappointing even more than I had thought. And I expect to knock on NCAA door next year with that talent-that is so terrible?

And as for Mullin I hope he does well, I really do because from being a part of the program you become a life-long johnnie nothing but fond memories and want the program to rise again.
But to be honest when Lav was first fired, my first call would have been to Marc Jackson and attempt to repair the bad relationship everyone speculates about. Man built the Warriors that many kids can relate to  and has great basketball mind with proven coaching record at highest level. Mullin, and I know no one likes to discuss this struggled in personnel department and GM in NBA. Perhaps he becomes a great coach and I hope he does but my preference would have been keeping  Lav 2 more years or Jackson.

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

Incarnate Word is not a mid major. A mid major is Wichita State, Gonzaga and Northern Iowa.

I support the current staff and would be happy with either Mullin or Lavin as the coach. But, I think Lavin was treated extremely unfairly both by the administration and this board and did not deserve to be let go. The drama with Lavin was bad, I'll admit that, but also was overblown with baseless speculation or insinuations by certain posters that would never come to fruition, or could not be proven true. The recruiting was still solid as he had Sampson, and most likely would have still landed quite a few of the guys Mullin did (Lovett, Mussini, Yakwe).

Lavin wasn't perfect, but he was a positive for SJU. Three 20 win seasons in 5 years is something every single person here would have signed up for at his hiring. People here hate him and I accept that but will never totally understand it.

Lovett is not eligible and we still have Mussini and Yakwe.  We also have a really bad record, so I don't get your point.  The question is "did he leave the program in historically bad  shape?"  And the answer is "yes he did". So I don't get the Lavin apologists.

Quote from: WillieG on February 20, 2016, 01:42:53 PM

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

Incarnate Word is not a mid major. A mid major is Wichita State, Gonzaga and Northern Iowa.

Really?  There's only three mid majors in the country?  You picked the three best in the country.  You must be really, really, objective.

Quote from: Poison on February 21, 2016, 12:16:24 PM

Quote from: WillieG on February 20, 2016, 01:42:53 PM

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

Incarnate Word is not a mid major. A mid major is Wichita State, Gonzaga and Northern Iowa.

Really?  There's only three mid majors in the country?  You picked the three best in the country.  You must be really, really, objective.

Incarnate wood is a cupcake.

Quote from: WillieG on February 21, 2016, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 21, 2016, 12:16:24 PM

Quote from: WillieG on February 20, 2016, 01:42:53 PM

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

Incarnate Word is not a mid major. A mid major is Wichita State, Gonzaga and Northern Iowa.

Really?  There's only three mid majors in the country?  You picked the three best in the country.  You must be really, really, objective.

Incarnate wood is a cupcake.

Exactly!  IMO, Incarnate Word is garbage. 

Quote from: TONYD3 on February 21, 2016, 03:13:57 PM

Quote from: WillieG on February 21, 2016, 03:11:30 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 21, 2016, 12:16:24 PM

Quote from: WillieG on February 20, 2016, 01:42:53 PM

I've found it tiring to follow along with the above arguments. Better to not get into the cage with posts like that. Just one thing though.  The schedule is really good.  And what's with everyone's preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  They're a solid mid major program.

Incarnate Word is not a mid major. A mid major is Wichita State, Gonzaga and Northern Iowa.

Really?  There's only three mid majors in the country?  You picked the three best in the country.  You must be really, really, objective.

Incarnate wood is a cupcake.

Exactly!  IMO, Incarnate Word is garbage.

They're garbage?  Really?  Then the whole bottom half of D1 is garbage too.  You're pretty harsh.  Just because you have never heard of someone before doesn't mean they're garbage.  Be objective.  Our SOS rank is 28 out of 351.  All teams play mid majors pre league.  Whats with the preoccupation with Incarnate Word.  We knew this was an impossible coaching task.  It took guts to take this job after what the previous staff did to the program.

Wow Willie.