Seton Hall Game

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paultzman

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2016, 09:51:24 PM »
I think most coaches especially the one we have had would have told Amar to screen and not shoot . Mullin had given him confidence . Sometimes I happy with that sometimes not so much. Amar isn't very good. Do we really want him shooting? I'd i were the coach he wouldn't be allowed to shoot like he does. I don't believe giving him the green light is a good idea . So I agree Mullin has helped Amar. I don't agree yet that Amar will help us win shooting whenever and wherever he feels like.
Foad- I don't believe Lavin and staff to be the greatest - to say they had 0 to little affect on last years team is crazy to me. You think Greene barley improved? He was an above average guard in conference, you saw that as a freshman?
Harrison- was plenty skilled when he got here. He also didn't jump high or run fast. How much better could he have gotten? He still became a better defender and drove the ball better.
Pointer- couldn't dribble or shoot as freshman- he had a great senior season. He scored plenty of points. He showed plenty of skill. How much was Lavin and staff I have no idea ? But to say none is unfair .
Labor postell- don't Rememer his freshman year that much- as a senior he was a better scorer and shooter- but he was athletic. Easier to show improvement . Or was Mike Jarvis a genius?
Mullin talks player development and skills. That is his strength. In game coaching is not. If that doesn't get better we are in some trouble.
In spite of some evidence to the contrary, I am becoming bullish on amar. He's working hard on his body and is fairly athletic;  his shot looks decent and I think it will fall more as he gets more confidence. His best attribute is his motor and his leadership. He doesn't sulk, he has a great attitude, he keeps the other guys loose, and he hustles for 20 minutes a game. For some reason he was guarding whitehead a bunch early, and I thought "oh shit", but he actually did a nice job.

Great attitude aside, if he plays more than a few minutes a game next year, IMO we are in trouble.

I'm not sure what you mean by "in trouble" (do you see this team making the ncaas if he plays less?), but I would guess he still gets ~10 minutes a game next year.
I just don't see him, short of an injury, getting much light in the frontcourt. Yakwe, Sima, Owens & Freudenberg should log most time there. Also, Ahmed can really rebound & could play some four if they really need him to. I like Amar & realize he is only a second year kid. That said, he can't rebound or score enough to merit time IMO. Maybe I am wrong, but feel the game is too fast for him.

One Marillac redshirt special coming right up

Actually he may be right on that.

Who do you think would redshirt?
I thought he meant fifth year transfer possibility being looked at by staff.

Poison

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2016, 09:59:09 PM »
I think most coaches especially the one we have had would have told Amar to screen and not shoot . Mullin had given him confidence . Sometimes I happy with that sometimes not so much. Amar isn't very good. Do we really want him shooting? I'd i were the coach he wouldn't be allowed to shoot like he does. I don't believe giving him the green light is a good idea . So I agree Mullin has helped Amar. I don't agree yet that Amar will help us win shooting whenever and wherever he feels like.
Foad- I don't believe Lavin and staff to be the greatest - to say they had 0 to little affect on last years team is crazy to me. You think Greene barley improved? He was an above average guard in conference, you saw that as a freshman?
Harrison- was plenty skilled when he got here. He also didn't jump high or run fast. How much better could he have gotten? He still became a better defender and drove the ball better.
Pointer- couldn't dribble or shoot as freshman- he had a great senior season. He scored plenty of points. He showed plenty of skill. How much was Lavin and staff I have no idea ? But to say none is unfair .
Labor postell- don't Rememer his freshman year that much- as a senior he was a better scorer and shooter- but he was athletic. Easier to show improvement . Or was Mike Jarvis a genius?
Mullin talks player development and skills. That is his strength. In game coaching is not. If that doesn't get better we are in some trouble.
In spite of some evidence to the contrary, I am becoming bullish on amar. He's working hard on his body and is fairly athletic;  his shot looks decent and I think it will fall more as he gets more confidence. His best attribute is his motor and his leadership. He doesn't sulk, he has a great attitude, he keeps the other guys loose, and he hustles for 20 minutes a game. For some reason he was guarding whitehead a bunch early, and I thought "oh shit", but he actually did a nice job.

Great attitude aside, if he plays more than a few minutes a game next year, IMO we are in trouble.

I'm not sure what you mean by "in trouble" (do you see this team making the ncaas if he plays less?), but I would guess he still gets ~10 minutes a game next year.
I just don't see him, short of an injury, getting much light in the frontcourt. Yakwe, Sima, Owens & Freudenberg should log most time there. Also, Ahmed can really rebound & could play some four if they really need him to. I like Amar & realize he is only a second year kid. That said, he can't rebound or score enough to merit time IMO. Maybe I am wrong, but feel the game is too fast for him.

He could continue to improve. He's not very good around the basket, but he could learn. He's hit some threes, and occasionally makes a nice hustle play. I think they'll need him at times next season, and if he continues to work, who knows, he's 6'11, and he can knock down threes.

Foad

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2016, 10:00:54 PM »
I think most coaches especially the one we have had would have told Amar to screen and not shoot . Mullin had given him confidence . Sometimes I happy with that sometimes not so much. Amar isn't very good. Do we really want him shooting? I'd i were the coach he wouldn't be allowed to shoot like he does. I don't believe giving him the green light is a good idea . So I agree Mullin has helped Amar. I don't agree yet that Amar will help us win shooting whenever and wherever he feels like.
Foad- I don't believe Lavin and staff to be the greatest - to say they had 0 to little affect on last years team is crazy to me. You think Greene barley improved? He was an above average guard in conference, you saw that as a freshman?
Harrison- was plenty skilled when he got here. He also didn't jump high or run fast. How much better could he have gotten? He still became a better defender and drove the ball better.
Pointer- couldn't dribble or shoot as freshman- he had a great senior season. He scored plenty of points. He showed plenty of skill. How much was Lavin and staff I have no idea ? But to say none is unfair .
Labor postell- don't Rememer his freshman year that much- as a senior he was a better scorer and shooter- but he was athletic. Easier to show improvement . Or was Mike Jarvis a genius?
Mullin talks player development and skills. That is his strength. In game coaching is not. If that doesn't get better we are in some trouble.

I think that the players improved despite Lavin, not because of him. Students in any field go to college for four years, at the end of which nearly all of them know more about what they studied than they did when they were just out of HS.It's not because all teachers are good teachers or because some teachers are great teachers its because they're immersed in the subject matter long enough to learn by osmosis and because in the meanwhile they're maturing from children to adults.

As much as I loathe Jarvis, he had players go from awful to pretty good. Postell was not very good. Donald Emanuel was atrocious. OTOH Lavin had some players like Harrison who went from pretty good to really pretty good. He had the #25 recruit in the country who stunk for 3.5 years and had half a good season. Mostly he had a bunch of players like Branch who didn't get better at all, except the lucky ones showed the same gradual growth that anyone would show who studied something 4 or 6 or 8 hours a day for four years.

Question: Why did that first killer class win one postseason game in 4 years if not because Lavin was a lousy coach and a lousy teacher? If they'd won the national championship you'd give him all the credit in the world. Why does he not get the blame for them stinking.

==

You cannot possibly tell anything about Mullin as a coach from his coaching these stiffs. You could take Adolph Rupp's head and sew it on John Wooden's body and attached Screwshrenski's whiskers and tail and they'd still stink. If you've watched the way they've played the last three games after getting their teeth kicked in for two months and are not optimistic about what Mullin is going to do, I don't know what to say.

==

Alibegovic is a basketball player, he just doesn't know it yet. He'll learn in time. Meanwhile I don't care if he chucks up some threes this year, it doesn't matter. I like the fact that he's being aggressive and that he's not afraid to take a shot and not afraid to go to the basket. All that's missing is the makes and that's really the easiest part. Nothing that happens this year matters unless Yawke gets abducted by aliens. That would be a catastrophe.   

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2016, 10:08:49 PM »
Alaibaba's best shot is as a stretch 4. Draw his man away from the basket and open things up for guys like bashir and lovett and ponds to penetrate. If he could hit the 3 more consistently and get by his man to the hoop that would be great

Poison

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2016, 11:08:13 PM »
I think most coaches especially the one we have had would have told Amar to screen and not shoot . Mullin had given him confidence . Sometimes I happy with that sometimes not so much. Amar isn't very good. Do we really want him shooting? I'd i were the coach he wouldn't be allowed to shoot like he does. I don't believe giving him the green light is a good idea . So I agree Mullin has helped Amar. I don't agree yet that Amar will help us win shooting whenever and wherever he feels like.
Foad- I don't believe Lavin and staff to be the greatest - to say they had 0 to little affect on last years team is crazy to me. You think Greene barley improved? He was an above average guard in conference, you saw that as a freshman?
Harrison- was plenty skilled when he got here. He also didn't jump high or run fast. How much better could he have gotten? He still became a better defender and drove the ball better.
Pointer- couldn't dribble or shoot as freshman- he had a great senior season. He scored plenty of points. He showed plenty of skill. How much was Lavin and staff I have no idea ? But to say none is unfair .
Labor postell- don't Rememer his freshman year that much- as a senior he was a better scorer and shooter- but he was athletic. Easier to show improvement . Or was Mike Jarvis a genius?
Mullin talks player development and skills. That is his strength. In game coaching is not. If that doesn't get better we are in some trouble.

I think that the players improved despite Lavin, not because of him. Students in any field go to college for four years, at the end of which nearly all of them know more about what they studied than they did when they were just out of HS.It's not because all teachers are good teachers or because some teachers are great teachers its because they're immersed in the subject matter long enough to learn by osmosis and because in the meanwhile they're maturing from children to adults.

As much as I loathe Jarvis, he had players go from awful to pretty good. Postell was not very good. Donald Emanuel was atrocious. OTOH Lavin had some players like Harrison who went from pretty good to really pretty good. He had the #25 recruit in the country who stunk for 3.5 years and had half a good season. Mostly he had a bunch of players like Branch who didn't get better at all, except the lucky ones showed the same gradual growth that anyone would show who studied something 4 or 6 or 8 hours a day for four years.

Question: Why did that first killer class win one postseason game in 4 years if not because Lavin was a lousy coach and a lousy teacher? If they'd won the national championship you'd give him all the credit in the world. Why does he not get the blame for them stinking.

==

You cannot possibly tell anything about Mullin as a coach from his coaching these stiffs. You could take Adolph Rupp's head and sew it on John Wooden's body and attached Screwshrenski's whiskers and tail and they'd still stink. If you've watched the way they've played the last three games after getting their teeth kicked in for two months and are not optimistic about what Mullin is going to do, I don't know what to say.

==

Alibegovic is a basketball player, he just doesn't know it yet. He'll learn in time. Meanwhile I don't care if he chucks up some threes this year, it doesn't matter. I like the fact that he's being aggressive and that he's not afraid to take a shot and not afraid to go to the basket. All that's missing is the makes and that's really the easiest part. Nothing that happens this year matters unless Yawke gets abducted by aliens. That would be a catastrophe.   


Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 02:22:43 AM by Poison »

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #125 on: February 24, 2016, 12:39:54 AM »
I was disappointed by the development of Harrison, Greene, and Pointer.   

You were disappointed by the development of the third leading scorer in St. Johns history;  a player who went from being a lousy three point shooter to the best three point shooter in the entire conference; and a second round Nba draft pick who is likely to play in the show?

It's like you purposefully chose the three players that would best highlight the opposing point of view.

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #126 on: February 24, 2016, 01:07:33 AM »
I was disappointed by the development of Harrison, Greene, and Pointer.   

You were disappointed by the development of the third leading scorer in St. Johns history;  a player who went from being a lousy three point shooter to the best three point shooter in the entire conference; and a second round Nba draft pick who is likely to play in the show?

It's like you purposefully chose the three players that would best highlight the opposing point of view.

Hence why the board is becoming unreadable lately

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #127 on: February 24, 2016, 01:45:22 AM »
I was disappointed by the development of Harrison, Greene, and Pointer.   

You were disappointed by the development of the third leading scorer in St. Johns history;  a player who went from being a lousy three point shooter to the best three point shooter in the entire conference; and a second round Nba draft pick who is likely to play in the show?

It's like you purposefully chose the three players that would best highlight the opposing point of view.

Hence why the board is becoming unreadable lately

I always find it fun and entertaining.  You just can't take it too seriously.

Poison

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #128 on: February 24, 2016, 02:24:17 AM »
I was disappointed by the development of Harrison, Greene, and Pointer.   

You were disappointed by the development of the third leading scorer in St. Johns history;  a player who went from being a lousy three point shooter to the best three point shooter in the entire conference; and a second round Nba draft pick who is likely to play in the show?

It's like you purposefully chose the three players that would best highlight the opposing point of view.

And Pointer developed into the best forward at St.John's since Ron Artest.

Foad

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #129 on: February 24, 2016, 07:13:29 AM »
Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.

He had three of those five last year and got no where. When Sampson left everyone but me was talking about how much he stank and was a cancer and how it was addition by subtraction and probably when Harkless left too, because it's always addition by subtraction here. Anyway, they didn't stick around and he had no plan B or C or D or F and he won one post season game in 5 years and he is what his record says he is and except for the fact that I've lost my muse everyone is better off for it.

Johnny23

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #130 on: February 24, 2016, 07:29:35 AM »
The Dlo, Greene, Pointer group definitely underperformed from a team perspective and showed very little improvement over 4 years. Any good coach would have had that team performing at a Sweet 16 level by the time last season came around.

They were doing the same stupid sh*t on the court last year that they did as frosh. DLo Harrison peaked as a soph and never got that much better. His lack of foot speed was exposed by the time he was a junior in the BE.

It's all relative. For the diehard fans who haven't seen a really good team in 15+ years, the Dlo, Green, Pointer group marked a vast improvement over some of the other joke squads since 2001 or so. In that regard, the last group is something to have some fond memories of. However if you look at it objectively, they showed small baby step improvements on the court in 4 years and that's mainly due to a lack of coaching as well as some of the worst bball iq I've ever seen from a group of players who were together for 3-4 years. That lack of chemistry, cohesion and execution falls directly on Lavin.

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #131 on: February 24, 2016, 10:06:10 AM »
why do people say "lavin won one postseason game", like winning a single nit game is some achievement?  It was a great game, sir dom hit a great shot, but who cares about the nit in 2016?

Foad

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #132 on: February 24, 2016, 10:27:55 AM »
why do people say "lavin won one postseason game", like winning a single nit game is some achievement?

No one says that.

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #133 on: February 24, 2016, 11:16:52 AM »
He had three of those five last year and got no where. 

At St. John's.  Reaching the Ncaa tournament is not getting "no where".

P.S.  Many on the board knew that n Delilah was a good player.
 

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2016, 11:23:04 AM »
The Dlo, Greene, Pointer group definitely underperformed from a team perspective 

The problem with the Dlo, Greene, Pointer group wasn't any of these three - it was Jordan, Obekpa, and the lack of bigs and any depth in general.


Wods317

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2016, 11:53:22 AM »
The Dlo, Greene, Pointer group definitely underperformed from a team perspective 

The problem with the Dlo, Greene, Pointer group wasn't any of these three - it was Jordan, Obekpa, and the lack of bigs and any depth in general.



I agree with you on Harrison but Phil and Dom were not very good until there seniors years. Dom was all over the place and averaged like 6 points a game and Phil never shot over 40% until his senior year. They closed out their careers with good senior seasons but only DLo was effective scoring around 17 points all 4 years. If they had more depth their senior year they could have been dangerous in March but they just weren't all that good their first 3 years.

Poison

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2016, 12:07:16 PM »
Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.

He had three of those five last year and got no where. When Sampson left everyone but me was talking about how much he stank and was a cancer and how it was addition by subtraction and probably when Harkless left too, because it's always addition by subtraction here. Anyway, they didn't stick around and he had no plan B or C or D or F and he won one post season game in 5 years and he is what his record says he is and except for the fact that I've lost my muse everyone is better off for it.

I don't recall anyone, anywhere saying that we were better off without Harkless.

Foad

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2016, 12:34:32 PM »
Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.

He had three of those five last year and got no where. When Sampson left everyone but me was talking about how much he stank and was a cancer and how it was addition by subtraction and probably when Harkless left too, because it's always addition by subtraction here. Anyway, they didn't stick around and he had no plan B or C or D or F and he won one post season game in 5 years and he is what his record says he is and except for the fact that I've lost my muse everyone is better off for it.

I don't recall anyone, anywhere saying that we were better off without Harkless.

I was probably exaggerating but addition by subtraction is the go to motif on the other board.

Foad

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Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2016, 12:45:34 PM »
Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.

He had three of those five last year and got no where. When Sampson left everyone but me was talking about how much he stank and was a cancer and how it was addition by subtraction and probably when Harkless left too, because it's always addition by subtraction here. Anyway, they didn't stick around and he had no plan B or C or D or F and he won one post season game in 5 years and he is what his record says he is and except for the fact that I've lost my muse everyone is better off for it.

I don't recall anyone, anywhere saying that we were better off without Harkless.

Quick search reveals this common core math

Sampson, Jordan, Sanchez, Obekpa, Lindsey, Garrett, Mason Jr leaving = addition by subtraction

Harrison suspension = addition by subtraction

Jermaine Lawrence not coming =  addition by subtraction

Branch not playing = addition by subtraction

Weird how with all those additions things have still been pretty negative.

Re: Seton Hall Game
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2016, 01:00:17 PM »
Lavin got fired. He got the blame for the team not performing better, but it's not an apples to apples comparison to say his top rated recruiting class didn't achieve anything. They didn't stick around long enough to achieve anything. A starting 5 of Harkless, Sampson, Pointer, Harrison and Jordan makes the tournament and probably a lot more.

He had three of those five last year and got no where. When Sampson left everyone but me was talking about how much he stank and was a cancer and how it was addition by subtraction and probably when Harkless left too, because it's always addition by subtraction here. Anyway, they didn't stick around and he had no plan B or C or D or F and he won one post season game in 5 years and he is what his record says he is and except for the fact that I've lost my muse everyone is better off for it.

I don't recall anyone, anywhere saying that we were better off without Harkless.

Quick search reveals this common core math

Sampson, Jordan, Sanchez, Obekpa, Lindsey, Garrett, Mason Jr leaving = addition by subtraction

Harrison suspension = addition by subtraction

Jermaine Lawrence not coming =  addition by subtraction

Branch not playing = addition by subtraction

Weird how with all those additions things have still been pretty negative.


Core Math