First Mullin Media Bash

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

I am worried about the in game coaching. Why are so many of you not? No offense was intended. I am well aware of the roster.

Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror. 

If Willard is responsible for Lavin getting fired they should hang his jersey in the Carnesecca rafters. At the very least I'm going to send him flowers. 

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I have zero problem with what Goodman said because it's true at the moment. The problem I have is Mullin didn't hire an experienced X's and O's guy for his staff. St. Jean is young and will take years to develop. They needed an experienced sideline coach, like a Dunlap.

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I am a Mullin guy and I think it will work out and if it doesn't I won't be screaming about it. However I do feel just for perception he needs to look more involved. And I also find it odd that he chose ST Jean instead of a Blaney type. If he had no one would say a word. In the end I personally don't care, but I can understand the complaints about it.

 

I am a Mullin guy and I think it will work out and if it doesn't I won't be screaming about it. However I do feel just for perception he needs to look more involved. And I also find it odd that he chose ST Jean instead of a Blaney type. If he had no one would say a word. In the end I personally don't care, but I can understand the complaints about it.

We're not talking here about a few random fan posts from the usual malcontents wondering about who St Jean is or why he's there. We're talking about an alleged journalist and the clear bias he's displaying. To the extent we are talking about the usual malcontents, they're complaining about the composition of the most impressive coaching staff SJU has had in my lifetime. I don't recall anyone saying why didn't Mike Jarvis hire George Blaney instead of his own son, but now here's someone who defends Jarhead at every opportunity saying well maybe St Jean only got hired because Mullin owed his father a favor.

I can understand frustration with the results this year, although no one with half a brain should have expected anything else. I don't understand frustration with the the off the court results - the staff and the recruiting. I am stunned by the animus certain posters display towards Mullin 10 months into his coaching career. It astounds me.

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 09:30:34 AM

I am a Mullin guy and I think it will work out and if it doesn't I won't be screaming about it. However I do feel just for perception he needs to look more involved. And I also find it odd that he chose ST Jean instead of a Blaney type. If he had no one would say a word. In the end I personally don't care, but I can understand the complaints about it.

We're not talking here about a few random fan posts from the usual malcontents wondering about who St Jean is or why he's there. We're talking about an alleged journalist and the clear bias he's displaying. To the extent we are talking about the usual malcontents, they're complaining about the composition of the most impressive coaching staff SJU has had in my lifetime. I don't recall anyone saying why didn't Mike Jarvis hire George Blaney instead of his own son, but now here's someone who defends Jarhead at every opportunity saying well maybe St Jean only got hired because Mullin owed his father a favor.

I can understand frustration with the results this year, although no one with half a brain should have expected anything else. I don't understand frustration with the the off the court results - the staff and the recruiting. I am stunned by the animus certain posters display towards Mullin 10 months into his coaching career. It astounds me.

Let us not rewrite history too much here.  Jarvis came here after success elsewhere.  We were cheated out of a final four appearance (since vacated by Ohio State) under his watch. That gave him license to do his son a favor.  I won't go over his record after that, because we were heading in the wrong direction at the end.  I won't blame players in Pittsburgh getting next to something soft on him since he wasn't there and Harrington was too busy buying cheap suits and getting next to his own squeeze to pay attention to the team.

The Dunlap hire was outstanding.  He had won a couple of national championships at a lower level where coaching makes more of a difference than recruiting.  Norm was a question at the beginning...not because he didn't bring in a guru but because he had zero winning records in his past.  He needed to bring in Bill Self if he was to be a winner.  Calhoun was man enough to bring in Blaney...even Pitino has Willard with him.

We knew this year would be tough.  Who knew it would be one of the worst in school history.  The players aren't THAT bad.

We have proven recruiters...two hall of famers...three NBA players and no one who teaches defense.  What's wrong with this picture?

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 09:30:34 AM

I am a Mullin guy and I think it will work out and if it doesn't I won't be screaming about it. However I do feel just for perception he needs to look more involved. And I also find it odd that he chose ST Jean instead of a Blaney type. If he had no one would say a word. In the end I personally don't care, but I can understand the complaints about it.

We're not talking here about a few random fan posts from the usual malcontents wondering about who St Jean is or why he's there. We're talking about an alleged journalist and the clear bias he's displaying. To the extent we are talking about the usual malcontents, they're complaining about the composition of the most impressive coaching staff SJU has had in my lifetime. I don't recall anyone saying why didn't Mike Jarvis hire George Blaney instead of his own son, but now here's someone who defends Jarhead at every opportunity saying well maybe St Jean only got hired because Mullin owed his father a favor.

I can understand frustration with the results this year, although no one with half a brain should have expected anything else. I don't understand frustration with the the off the court results - the staff and the recruiting. I am stunned by the animus certain posters display towards Mullin 10 months into his coaching career. It astounds me.

I don't care about wins this year or next year. And again nothing could really happen where I would post or say Chris Mullin should be fired from ST John's .  I also don't care where he sits. I do think he needs to own his huddles a little more. And not for me just so it doesn't give people ammo to take shots. I am as big a Mullin fan as there could be so if I think the optics are off, I can imagine  what others might think.

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

That's unfair. You see the staff four hours a week during games and have no idea what goes on in meeting and in practices. I've seen practice run a couple times and he is very active and always teaching. I was on campus once and he has out with Yakwe and Ellison hours and after practice helping them with their free throws. I agree that his in game coaching has to improve but I think he is trying to observe and learn from his staff in both X's and O's and recruiting. It annoys me as much as anyone else when he sits with his legs stretched out and arms crossed but let's not be too quick to throw the guy under the bus. I would be shocked if he doesn't take a much more active role on game days next year but to insinuate he doesn't do anything is wrong.

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

Quote from: Poison on March 03, 2016, 10:08:00 AM

Quote from: Foad on March 03, 2016, 09:12:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on March 02, 2016, 11:35:31 PM

Quote from: valgoth on March 02, 2016, 11:15:54 PM

Providence gets a MUCH-NEEDED win at home against Creighton. Friars get Greg St. Jean and the Johnnies next. - another shot off the bow by Jeff goodman . What a hack

Why is that such a shot? St.Jean is the guy out there coaching. We can all see it. What's wrong with observing that?

I don't recall you or that slob Goodman calling out Lavin for hiring and relying on Dunlap. In fact he was lauded for that. I do recall you and a bunch of other people calling out Norm for not hiring and relying on an X and O guy - an X and O guy like George Blaney, who Jim Calhoun relied on, because he was smart to delegate those responsibilities to an assistant. That's what's wrong with observing that. 

I think it's a fair point that fans are generally not sure what Mullin does. He has his recruiters. He has in-game strategy. What does Mullin do?

I don't know what Mullin does or doesn't do and neither do you, because we only see him doing it 80 minutes out of the ten thousand minutes there are in a week. (How's my math bitches.) So far he's assembled a pretty good staff to whom he's delegated responsibility like a good CEO and he's closed the deal with some pretty high profile recruits and I hear he's installed a system of accountability designed to aid his tender charges become adults, which was something that the previous staff did not seem to care about particularly. I know that he goes to HS basketball games, which is something his predecessor also did not care to do. I do not know where he eats dinner and what kind of wine he likes and which movies he prefers, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know what sort of sweat suits he gets comped, which was something I knew about the previous staff. I do not know whether his assistant coaches wear condoms or not when they hook up with random broads from Craig's List, which I know about the previous staff. I know that no one has to wipe gravy from Mitch Richmond's chin after the pre game meal, which I'm pretty sure someone had to from Mister Myagi's.

What I know especially is that Mullin has a reverence for the university and its traditions and place in the community that the former staff assuredly did not have and that he did not come here to disrespect that. That does not mean he won't fail, but at least he'll try, and I've already seen what happens when someone who doesn't give a shit about the university and doesn't flying #$%^ whether he succeeds comes here, and that is somewhere that I am overjoyed we are not at at present and so I'm willing to extend the greatest player in school history the benefit of at least 14 months doubt that he can be as successful at head coaching as he has been at everything else in basketball for half a century. As usual, YMMV.

This is a well written piece on why 99.9 percent of us love the fact that Mullin is our coach.  He admitted at his opening news conference that he was no defensive wizard.  All I'd ask is for him to bring one in.  I'll be at our game in the garden for the BET tournament either way.

Quote from: WillieG on March 02, 2016, 10:06:39 PM

Forget everything about Willard.  He is a cheater.  Hiring Tiny was in clear violation of NCAA rules, which however, are written in such a way that you could never prove it.  The rule states that there cannot be quid pro quo.  In other words, the hiring cannot be contingent on the recruits commitment.  But since you could never prove that, unless the school was stupid enough to write the contingency into the contract, Willard can get away with it.  In the meantime his competitors for the recruiting haul get fired.  Namely Lavin.  I don't know how Willard can look at himself in the mirror.  You have to be a cheater to succeed around here.  Really sad.

And the guys team isn't even ranked even though he has all that talent.  He hasn't done jack.

I wouldn't call it cheating. It's a really risky move and obviously doesn't always work out. Hired Fred Hill to get Jaren Sina too.

Best move Willard made was signing Desi Rodriquez to shift momentum to get Isaiah Whitehead. Desi was always a matchup problem but his physicality was untapped. He's saving that team right now.

Thought Rodriquez signed following Whitehead, no?

Let us not rewrite history too much here.  Jarvis came here after success elsewhere.  We were cheated out of a final four appearance (since vacated by Ohio State) under his watch. That gave him license to do his son a favor.  I won't go over his record after that, because we were heading in the wrong direction at the end.  I won't blame players in Pittsburgh getting next to something soft on him since he wasn't there and Harrington was too busy buying cheap suits and getting next to his own squeeze to pay attention to the team.

Okay, let's not rewrite history. Mike Jarvis presided over what was according to Sports Illustrated a historically corrupt program and his record in his last four years was 13-42. So to the extent that he had a license to do anything it should have been revoked. He was indeed a very successful mid major coach and turned SJU in two short years into a pretty successful mid major program. The only flaw in that brilliant plan was that SJ is not in a mid major conference.

Also, since we're not rewriting history we should note that Father Harrington for all his flaws was president of the entire university not General Manager of the basketball team. Personally I suspect he hated the emphasis boosters put on it and would have eliminated the whole thing if he were able to get away with it. Also, Harrington wore expensive suits, not cheap ones. If he had a boyfriend shame on him for violating his vows but that did not seem to inhibit his ability to run the university otherwise. Bu all of that is irrelevant.

The players aren't THAT bad.

Yeah, they are. They're that bad. That's why they were picked last in every pre season poll. Because the ones who aren't awful are young and the ones who aren't young are awful. Lavin's first class was the third rated recruiting class in the country and they won 13 games. Mullin's first class were refugees from the island of misfit toys.

We have proven recruiters...two hall of famers...three NBA players and no one who teaches defense.  What's wrong with this picture?

So far I don't see anything wrong with this picture. No one can teach Mussini to get taller and run faster. If Mvouika has not learned in 15 years of playing organized BB that defense does not consist solely of complaining to the referees when you get called for a foul, no one can teach him otherwise. If at this time next year the team has seven wins and Mullin's sitting on the scorer's table chewing gum then there's something wrong and even I will begin to wonder what's up. But not now and not yet.

The big question is will an improvement to 14 or 15 wins be enough to buy him more time or will that just cause more impatience? For me I just think he needs to "play the part" a little more to ride out the storm until he has a full roster of his players.

The big question is will an improvement to 14 or 15 wins be enough to buy him more time or will that just cause more impatience? For me I just think he needs to "play the part" a little more to ride out the storm until he has a full roster of his players.

Very fair

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 11:06:42 AM

The big question is will an improvement to 14 or 15 wins be enough to buy him more time or will that just cause more impatience? For me I just think he needs to "play the part" a little more to ride out the storm until he has a full roster of his players.

Very fair

Maybe I don't understand what you mean "play the part". But I want Mullin to try and be the best coach he can be. I hope he can be the man, if he can't then he shouldn't be the head coach. Syracuse without Jim Boheiem isn't Syracuse.

Quote from: paultzman on March 03, 2016, 11:13:19 AM

Quote from: we are sju on March 03, 2016, 11:06:42 AM

The big question is will an improvement to 14 or 15 wins be enough to buy him more time or will that just cause more impatience? For me I just think he needs to "play the part" a little more to ride out the storm until he has a full roster of his players.

Very fair

Maybe I don't understand what you mean "play the part". But I want Mullin to try and be the best coach he can be. I hope he can be the man, if he can't then he shouldn't be the head coach. Syracuse without Jim Boheiem isn't Syracuse.

In the background too much in huddles. Maybe not sit on a table with your hands folded while your team is being pummeled. Whether it is true or not he does sometimes give off the  vibe that he is supervising or analyzing what is going on instead of actually being the guy.
If we won 15- 17 games none of this would be brought up and no one was winning that many games with this team.

Again I am just mentioning these things so that he could ward off critics and people like yourself that were going to complain no matter what. No one could judge Mullin off of wins and losses with the situation he inherited. Just don't think he should provide you with fodder.

Quote from: newsman13 on March 03, 2016, 10:18:08 AM

Let us not rewrite history too much here.  Jarvis came here after success elsewhere.  We were cheated out of a final four appearance (since vacated by Ohio State) under his watch. That gave him license to do his son a favor.  I won't go over his record after that, because we were heading in the wrong direction at the end.  I won't blame players in Pittsburgh getting next to something soft on him since he wasn't there and Harrington was too busy buying cheap suits and getting next to his own squeeze to pay attention to the team.

Okay, let's not rewrite history. Mike Jarvis presided over what was according to Sports Illustrated a historically corrupt program and his record in his last four years was 13-42. So to the extent that he had a license to do anything it should have been revoked. He was indeed a very successful mid major coach and turned SJU in two short years into a pretty successful mid major program. The only flaw in that brilliant plan was that SJ is not in a mid major conference.

Also, since we're not rewriting history we should note that Father Harrington for all his flaws was president of the entire university not General Manager of the basketball team. Personally I suspect he hated the emphasis boosters put on it and would have eliminated the whole thing if he were able to get away with it. Also, Harrington wore expensive suits, not cheap ones. If he had a boyfriend shame on him for violating his vows but that did not seem to inhibit his ability to run the university otherwise. Bu all of that is irrelevant.

Quote

The players aren't THAT bad.

Yeah, they are. They're that bad. That's why they were picked last in every pre season poll. Because the ones who aren't awful are young and the ones who aren't young are awful. Lavin's first class was the third rated recruiting class in the country and they won 13 games. Mullin's first class were refugees from the island of misfit toys.

Quote

We have proven recruiters...two hall of famers...three NBA players and no one who teaches defense.  What's wrong with this picture?

So far I don't see anything wrong with this picture. No one can teach Mussini to get taller and run faster. If Mvouika has not learned in 15 years of playing organized BB that defense does not consist solely of complaining to the referees when you get called for a foul, no one can teach him otherwise. If at this time next year the team has seven wins and Mullin's sitting on the scorer's table chewing gum then there's something wrong and even I will begin to wonder what's up. But not now and not yet.

Is that the same Sports Illustrated that looks the other way when the big boys cheat.  North Carolina hasn't required its players to attend classes for decades...and Towson is on probation.  But I digress.

I can stipulate that a coach whose record is in constant decline can expect to be fired.  That was the case with Jarvis.  Forgetting the "forfeited" games which a whimpering Harrington ceded over a one point per game player who liked his trim, the Jarvis years were the best we had since the mid 80s.  98-99 we won 28 games and finished in the top ten in polls.  99-00 we won 25 games and also finished in the top ten.  We appeared in the top 20 the following year before falling off the charts.  In Jarvis' five full years, we were in the NCAA's three times and won the NIT once.

The players are not that bad.  Not so bad they got blown out at home by STAC...along with other blowouts that included Fordham, some Texas school no one ever heard of...and the coke bottle glasses wearing players at New Jersey Institute of Technology.  I'm too embarrassed to run down the rest of the recording losing streak debacles.

Again, we're on the same page re: Mullin.  I don't care that he sits on the scorers table chewing gum or lets his assistants take over during times out.  He's a cool guy with his own style.  What's wrong with the picture is no one is teaching defense so crappy teams like Creighton can light us up for 100 points and the fan base complains about their coach not having class for calling the dogs off.

yea, and he shouldn't wear sneakers too...  this is the same nonsense we went through with people complaining about lavin's wardrobe.  just WIN.  if he makes it to more than 2 ncaas in 5 years and wins an ncaa game, then he will have done better than the last guy.  But some people will still complain about his flat top