Zach B SJU Recruiting Critique

Not trying to knock Ellison . But the DJ comparison is crazy to me. He was awful in the beginning of the year. He played mindless. DJ was never mindless. Ellison did improve, quite a bit. DJ was one of the better players in the big east his senior year. And the best player in his team his junior year. I don't think Ellison ever starts again here. I hope he can become a decent backup .

Is Ellison gone already?

Not trying to knock Ellison . But the DJ comparison is crazy to me. He was awful in the beginning of the year. He played mindless. DJ was never mindless. Ellison did improve, quite a bit. DJ was one of the better players in the big east his senior year. And the best player in his team his junior year. I don't think Ellison ever starts again here. I hope he can become a decent backup .

Not so crazy...

Kennedy: 7.8 points, 5.8 rebounds, 1.4 assists, FT 70%
Ellison: 7.3 points, 2.5 rebounds, 2.6 assists, FT 65%

If freshman DJ was on last years team. His numbers go up. Ellison plays less.

Yes, because of Steve Lavin and his staff.

It's a shame Coach Bobblehead didn't use any of the magick that elevated DJ's game to an NBA level in the 5 months he coached him to improve the play of any of his own recruits in the five years he was at SJU, he wouldn't have gotten fired for being a incompetent buffoon. Oh well.

Quote from: Foad on April 24, 2016, 06:03:29 PM

Quote from: WillieG on April 24, 2016, 05:47:03 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 24, 2016, 07:56:46 AM

Ellison is a good athlete. He will get bigger and stronger. On a Norm team, where he would get plenty of minutes he would improve. He would have a decent junior year and a good senior season . I hope he gets buried on the bench next year. I don't think he is ready to contribute much to a winning team.

He's got good pedigree and he's missed a lot of time early on.  Lets not be to harsh with this kid for now. Give him two years to develop.  If he's not much better by next February, then it will be time to transfer.  He'll then get a year to work out and develop his game at a lower level. Two years from now we will have Clarke and Simon active, so if he hasn't improved by then, he should definitely transfer.

I think it's fair to say that the 2016 Red Storm were the best 1 and 17 ever and that everyone should transfer or red shirt because we are loaded.

I said he should transfer, if he doesn't improve, after next year.  Not this year.  What are you talking about?

Basketball. Pay attention, you might learn something.

Quote from: Poison on April 24, 2016, 08:31:28 PM

Yes, because of Steve Lavin and his staff.

It's a shame Coach Bobblehead didn't use any of the magick that elevated DJ's game to an NBA level in the 5 months he coached him to improve the play of any of his own recruits in the five years he was at SJU, he wouldn't have gotten fired for being a incompetent buffoon. Oh well.

A buffoon, maybe. Incompetent, surely. But Lavin gets the credit for every single player that Norm recruited, because they only succeeded under him. Norm is the definition of incompetent. I can't believe that you would bother to defend such a disgusting POS.

Quote from: WillieG on April 23, 2016, 08:52:15 PM

If you think about Elllison, actually, he missed a lot of time in HS, and last season as a Frosh.  He has good pedigree as his dad was a big player.  So I definitely have not given up on him yet.  I wish I was so hopeful about Mussini though.  I see him as a bit role player in the Big East, at best.  If Ellison could stay away from injuries, I think he could develop.

I'd like to see Ellison take a redshirt after next season. Nothing it is in his best interest and our's to take an extra year to work on his body and his quickness/explosiveness.

Big year for Ellison and Mussini this year. Next year with Simon coming one or both will not get much PT

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

Third best player but I agree the comparison is silly

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

He was the best player after Dwight Hardy, who was by far and away the best player on the team, and the best player St.John's has had since Marcus Hatten. Kennedy was the 3rd best player on the team, following Hardy and Brownlee.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 25, 2016, 02:01:59 PM

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

Third best player but I agree the comparison is silly

I'd bet if you looked up Kennedy and Ellison's numbers from February on in their freshman seasons, Ellison would appear to be just as good of a player. Kennedy's freshman year, we got killed routinely. Just like we did this year. The only thing you can take away from these games is the glimmer of hope that you see in the freshman. Ellison didn't finish the season like an all BE player, but he did have several quality games for a kid who was clearly playing out of position.

DJ was much more refined, but I think Ellison is just as athletic, if not more. Ellison needs more game experience. He needs practice making good decisions with the ball, and he needs to practice finishing. If he gets stronger, and works hard, he could be better than DJ when it's all over.

Quote from: we are sju on April 25, 2016, 02:43:37 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 25, 2016, 02:01:59 PM

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

Third best player but I agree the comparison is silly

I'd bet if you looked up Kennedy and Ellison's numbers from February on in their freshman seasons, Ellison would appear to be just as good of a player. Kennedy's freshman year, we got killed routinely. Just like we did this year. The only thing you can take away from these games is the glimmer of hope that you see in the freshman. Ellison didn't finish the season like an all BE player, but he did have several quality games for a kid who was clearly playing out of position.

DJ was much more refined, but I think Ellison is just as athletic, if not more. Ellison needs more game experience. He needs practice making good decisions with the ball, and he needs to practice finishing. If he gets stronger, and works hard, he could be better than DJ when it's all over.

I mean anything could happen. The guy on the first box of Wheaties I ever saw is now a woman.... But considering what we have coming in at guard and small forward the next two season it seems pretty far fetched that Ellison will turn out better than DJ.

Quote from: Poison on April 25, 2016, 02:54:54 PM

Quote from: we are sju on April 25, 2016, 02:43:37 PM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 25, 2016, 02:01:59 PM

Prez was the best player on an Ncaa tournament team.  MalikIV was a minor contributor on the worst team in St. John's history.  I too am baffled by the comparison.

Third best player but I agree the comparison is silly

I'd bet if you looked up Kennedy and Ellison's numbers from February on in their freshman seasons, Ellison would appear to be just as good of a player. Kennedy's freshman year, we got killed routinely. Just like we did this year. The only thing you can take away from these games is the glimmer of hope that you see in the freshman. Ellison didn't finish the season like an all BE player, but he did have several quality games for a kid who was clearly playing out of position.

DJ was much more refined, but I think Ellison is just as athletic, if not more. Ellison needs more game experience. He needs practice making good decisions with the ball, and he needs to practice finishing. If he gets stronger, and works hard, he could be better than DJ when it's all over.

I mean anything could happen. The guy on the first box of Wheaties I ever saw is now a woman.... But considering what we have coming in at guard and small forward the next two season it seems pretty far fetched that Ellison will turn out better than DJ.

DJ was a very physically & mentally  tough player, not sure that is part of Ellison's  DNA. We'll see, still early.

For some reason, possibly inexperience, Ellison shied away from finishing aggressively at the rim.

He spent the first half of the season dribbling into brick walls, but then he started to be more selective about it, and when he did try to get into the lane, at times he drew contact, and at times, he had a clear path to the basket for a layup. This is one area where I saw marked improvement. If he works hard on his game, tightens his handle, and really dedicates himself to getting stronger, instead of a weak off balance layup attempt, that drive could end in a dunk.

This comparison is only relevant if Ellison applies himself with the same work ethic that DJ did.

And for the record, DJ, while promising as a freshman, had his share too of bonehead freshman mistakes on a regular basis.

Prez was the best on that team even though he didn't score the most points, and wasn't my fav, due to his unique versatility.  He scored, he rebounded, he passed, he defended, he had a handle.  He was "Costco" before Costco.

I don't object to comparing freshmen stats of players and writing of potential.  But DJ was a darn good if not great player for us and to date MalikIV's done nothing.  Comparing them seems silly at this juncture.

Prez was the best on that team even though he didn't score the most points, and wasn't my fav, due to his unique versatility.  He scored, he rebounded, he passed, he defended, he had a handle.  He was "Costco" before Costco.

I don't object to comparing freshmen stats of players and writing of potential.  But DJ was a darn good if not great player for us and to date MalikIV's done nothing.  Comparing them seems silly at this juncture.

What had DJ Kennedy done for St.John's in his first season there outside of taking a serious beating every single night? That team was marginally better than this one.

Look, all I said on page one and two is that he shouldn't be given up on, since he has missed a lot of time, and he has good pedigree.  At first it seemed like Poison did not like Ellison, and now it seems like he is building my case for me with the DJ comparisons. (DJ turned out to be a very good player for us.  If Ellison is close to him he will be very valuable to us.) Poison said his pedigree does not translate to anything we can see right now, so why doesn't he get in the gym and lift and develop his game, right now.  Agreed.  How do you know he won't.  Like I said, lets not give up on him yet.

Look, all I said on page one and two is that he shouldn't be given up on, since he has missed a lot of time, and he has good pedigree.  At first it seemed like Poison did not like Ellison, and now it seems like he is building my case for me with the DJ comparisons. (DJ turned out to be a very good player for us.  If Ellison is close to him he will be very valuable to us.) Poison said his pedigree does not translate to anything we can see right now, so why doesn't he get in the gym and lift and develop his game, right now.  Agreed.  How do you know he won't.  Like I said, lets not give up on him yet.

No one knows if he will or he won't hit the weight room. We just know that he had better.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on April 25, 2016, 06:24:59 PM

Prez was the best on that team even though he didn't score the most points, and wasn't my fav, due to his unique versatility.  He scored, he rebounded, he passed, he defended, he had a handle.  He was "Costco" before Costco.

I don't object to comparing freshmen stats of players and writing of potential.  But DJ was a darn good if not great player for us and to date MalikIV's done nothing.  Comparing them seems silly at this juncture.

What had DJ Kennedy done for St.John's in his first season there outside of taking a serious beating every single night? That team was marginally better than this one.

I don't recall.  My issue is with comparing favorably freshman who have done nothing with players like Prez who gave us so much.  Seems disrespectful to our heroes of yore.