Most Frustrating player...

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Averaged 11 points a game and 2nd in assists on ST John's team that won a tourney game. That is almost number retired category around here the lat 25 years

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 10:15:01 AM

Quote from: we are sju on April 28, 2016, 09:50:16 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on April 28, 2016, 09:48:43 AM

James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

Quote from: we are sju on April 28, 2016, 11:29:10 AM

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 11:14:51 AM

Forgot about another name - Derek Brown.   Came in hyped up as a top athlete and scorer who could play the 2 and grow into a point, ended up being awful. 

Was not highly recruited, had a nice Soph year, got hurt than played out of position. Not sure how he would or should make this list

I was pretty young but Derek Brown was one of my favorite players and I remember not thinking he got enough opportunities or in the right positions.  Memory could be faulty, but I tend to agree with WASJU that he should be far far from this list.  Almost like someone trying to put Larry Wright on this list.

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 10:15:01 AM

Quote from: we are sju on April 28, 2016, 09:50:16 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on April 28, 2016, 09:48:43 AM

James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

Quote from: Tha Kid on April 28, 2016, 10:23:56 AM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 10:15:01 AM

Quote from: we are sju on April 28, 2016, 09:50:16 AM

Quote from: Tha Kid on April 28, 2016, 09:48:43 AM

James Scott for me, 100%.

Anyone who played for Mahoney or Norm should be excluded from this because they were not coached at all.

Mahoney wasn't a good coach. He was horrible. But some of kids were so selfish, they just ignored good direction, and I witnessed Mahoney giving it to several players. Zendon wasn't able to be coached by Mahoney or Frascilla. At that point, who gets the blame? I put it on the player.

So if a player has multiple coaches, neither of whom reach him, he is uncoachable?  Isn't it just as possible that neither were good coaches?

Fran dropped his pants and grabbed his sack in front of the team.  Maybe some of you old geezers find that old school and reminsicent of the good old days, but yeah would not be a preferred method of a "good" coach if you ask me.

Fran was a great recruiter and OK coach at times.  That's enough to succeed in college as long as you dont do anything stupid. 

It's not like Zendon was coached by Louie or Coach K or Brad Stevens or Boeheim (for you Poison) here.  It was Mahoney and Fraschilla.

I don't think Fran gets enough credit for having  confidence enough in his junk to drop his pants in front of a bunch of 6-6 guys. I mean if he wasn't "up" to that it totally would undermine whatever point he was trying to make

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

Who was better Paris Horne or Derrick brown?

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

Quote from: wpc77 on April 28, 2016, 12:29:10 PM

Quote from: Poison on April 28, 2016, 12:20:08 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on April 28, 2016, 11:51:25 AM

Derek brown had a big game against my high school when I was in 6th grade. So I tried following him. He did have a big game vs Syracuse I think but that was about it?

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

As a freshman and a sophomore, he was one of the better players in the league. Then Mahoney ruined him because he brought Mo Brown in to run the offense, and he wasn't able to, so Derek had to do it, and he couldn't either. Throw is a selfish James Scott, and wheels came off at STJ for the next 23 years.

One of the better players in the league? Uh, no: http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/derek-brown-2.html

I'm talking about before Mahoney tried to make him a point guard. His sophomore season at St.John's we finished second place to Seton Hall and came within a few points of the sweet 16. That's because during that season, and that season alone, Mahoney had a point guard who was able to get the very best out of every player we had.

Derek Brown, Charles Minlend, Shawnelle Scott and Lamont Middleton played beautiful team basketball. Perhaps you forgot about that season? I'm sure a lot of people have, but it was one of the best seasons any St.John's team has had in a long time.

Brown just fit in. He didn't have to score 24 points per game to be a dangerous player, because Cain made every player on that team dangerous for one year. Replacing David Cain with James Scott was the end of that team. He ruined any cohesiveness they had by being a selfish ball hog, and a pretty shitty shooter as well. Not that it ever stopped him.

Rob Cornegy
Tom Bayne
Mohammed Diatke
Abe Kieta
Adele Coker
All big men who did or did next to nothing. Most if not all came in with some bit of renown. Remember fantasizing that Tom Bayne could be the next Bob Lanier (both big hefty lefties  ).   

Quote from: KAHNIGHT on April 28, 2016, 09:42:10 AM

Luis Felipe López,  hands down.  Never making an NCAA tournament in 4 years.  His highest scoring average was his Freshman year. For a guy who was arguably the best player in his class high school class ,  the bar was set so high.

Made the tourney his senior year with Fran

Quote from: we are sju on April 28, 2016, 09:44:29 AM

Quote from: KAHNIGHT on April 28, 2016, 09:42:10 AM

Luis Felipe López,  hands down.  Never making an NCAA tournament in 4 years.  His highest scoring average was his Freshman year. For a guy who was arguably the best player in his class high school class ,  the bar was set so high.

Made the tourney his senior year with Fran

and Ron who should have taken the last shot vs. Detroit. Erick King because I thought he was gonna be good. All he did was float around the perimeter.