Seth Davis SI SJU Opinion

Norm took over a disaster of a program, on a sorts of levels.

Agreed.  And, even so, he inherited a better roster than what Mullin had walking in the door (anyone who counts Jordan and Obekpa as being part of what Mullin "inherited" is kidding themselves).  Daryl Hill and Lamont Hamilton were better than any player on our roster last season.

Norm took over a disaster of a program, on a sorts of levels.

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 07:26:16 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

I'll wait till February to bitch and moan about his coaching, I'm not expecting miracles, but just alittle improvement coaching wise. He had all of last year, and when February is here that's 3 months gone from this year, that should be enough of "on the job training to improve just alittle. No one should get a full 2 year pass when coaching.
I'm not happy with this year, but until February comes around I'm not gonna say to much.

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 09:17:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 07:26:16 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

I'll wait till February to bitch and moan about his coaching, I'm not expecting miracles, but just alittle improvement coaching wise. He had all of last year, and when February is here that's 3 months gone from this year, that should be enough of "on the job training to improve just alittle. No one should get a full 2 year pass when coaching.
I'm not happy with this year, but until February comes around I'm not gonna say to much.

Smart. Even Lavins great first year we looked bad in the beginning of the year and didn't start gelling until Jan. Mullin needs more time to be evaluated. I also am unhappy ,but he inherited a mess. Jordan wasn't going to class, so he wouldn't have been eligible. And I don't know what difficult rules Mullin had that CO couldn't abide by. That idiot completely lost a year.

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 15, 2016, 10:14:53 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 09:17:54 AM

Quote from: Foad on December 15, 2016, 07:26:16 AM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 12:36:27 AM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:59 PM

Quote from: upstate32 on December 14, 2016, 08:33:32 PM

When Mullin became head coach of this program Jordan And Obekpa couldn't meet the new program standards.  Sampson decided to decommit leaving the program with next to nothing. 

We gotta give Mullin time.  The staff is getting players and this roster is one of the most talented in years.  These kids are still learning how to play together and learning what it takes to win at this level. 

I'd rather see this out for 2-3 more years and see where we stand instead of canning Mullin and starting over with a more experienced coach.  There is no guarantee the next staff can get the tyoe of players this staff has already recruited here.  I think current staff continue to get better players all while learning from their in game coaching deficiencies.

Lavin had Dunlap coach his freshmen in his 2nd year as he was out with cancer, Dunlap was a great x and o's coach.
wtf does Mullin have? Jean.   You can't compare the 2.

They are the second youngest team with a 2nd year coach (not just on SJU but ever.), so what can you expect to happen?
Only thing i want this year is for Mullin in the last month to improve his in game coaching/ halftime adjustments/ and substitutions. If he does then we'll feel better for 17/18.

Next year I'm expecting atleast the NIT.
Everyone from this year will be either a junior or sophmore, will have Simon and Clark on the court. and I'm praying Zach Brown can play.

If they can't get to atleast the NIT with that talent, then yeah start worrying about Mullin as coach.
Yeah the NIT is probably going light on him.

But this isn't the year to do so. Yeah, I know saying next year all the time F'ING sucks, but wtf can anyone do?
The situation is what it is.

We all understand that they're young, but criticism of Chris Mullin is fair. He has to show a clear example of progress, or the University should move on. And for the love of God can we please hire a coach that can teach?

Does the next guy get 15 months to return us to days of glory? And the next guy and the guy after that?

What is progress exactly? Is recruiting what looks like what might be the best back court in 50 years progress? Is recruiting the best shooting team in school history progress?  Is recruiting good players who don't cold cock opposing players and end up in prison progress? Or is progress merely measured by beating Delaware State progress? Because the former seems to me more important than the latter, as frustrating as the latter is.

To me, clear progress is improvement. The players have to improve, and the team has to come together and play like a unit. Right now, it looks as if Mullin isn't doing anything at all. Is it unfair to assume that? Maybe, but the Jeff Goodmans out there seem justified w their criticism.

Personally I was against this hire. This program needed an experienced coach. Now we have a coach that we have to hope will learn how to coach.

I'll wait till February to bitch and moan about his coaching, I'm not expecting miracles, but just alittle improvement coaching wise. He had all of last year, and when February is here that's 3 months gone from this year, that should be enough of "on the job training to improve just alittle. No one should get a full 2 year pass when coaching.
I'm not happy with this year, but until February comes around I'm not gonna say to much.

Smart. Even Lavins great first year we looked bad in the beginning of the year and didn't start gelling until Jan. Mullin needs more time to be evaluated. I also am unhappy ,but he inherited a mess. Jordan wasn't going to class, so he wouldn't have been eligible. And I don't know what difficult rules Mullin had that CO couldn't abide by. That idiot completely lost a year.

Lavin recruited those idiots, and got bitched by them both.
If Mullin was here he would have told Jordan when he got back, "if you leave again, you better have a damn good excuse or do not come back", and he would have kept to that.. CO, when he to play against PC, Mullin would have told him to GTF off my bench, and CO would have went to the locker room never to be seen in a SJU uniform again.

Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on December 15, 2016, 06:55:48 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on December 15, 2016, 06:28:32 PM

Quote from: valgoth on December 15, 2016, 06:18:06 PM

Norm got a long rein. Can we afford Chris a few seasons before we jettison him .

I miscounted. He already has 11 wins. Norm getting more years was a mistake . That was clearly proven Lavin's first year. (To everyone except foad)Why make that mistake again? I truly am not trying to bother you guys. Is Chris mullin going to a coaches clinic over the summer? How is he going to get better? We play 0 defense. Deleware state could have dropped 100 on us.
I will stop crying when ther is some progress. Nova and Xavier are really good. No one else has that much talent. I hoping either my mind is changed because we are playing better or enough people's mind changes so we get a new staff.

8 + 5 = 13

Also again, can't believe people are already trying to get rid of Mullin. Just beyond my brains comprehension.

Only clowns want to get rid of Mullin, clowns and trolls that like to stir sh*t up because they revel in the perceived chaos they create.

There's a difference between wanting him to step down in March, and having never wanted him to get the job in the first place. Whether we like it or not, he's the coach. Either he gets a chance to show us what he hasn't shown us yet, or we have to start over. If it ends early, it would be awful for the program. But I guess losing to Delaware State and LIU is also a pretty bad look, too.

At this point, 3 big east wins would be a phenomenal year

At this point, 3 big east wins would be a phenomenal year

More than double last year's win total.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 15, 2016, 11:03:34 PM

At this point, 3 big east wins would be a phenomenal year

More than double last year's win total.

That's a start I guess.

Actually, 3 more wins this year would be tremendous

I truly am not trying to bother you guys.

You're not bothering us.  It's just words.  You do you TonyD.

I'll wait till February to bitch and moan about his coaching, 

And I'll wait till hell freezes over.

Quote from: newsman13 on December 15, 2016, 01:38:56 PM

Quote from: Wods317 on December 15, 2016, 01:34:38 PM

Quote from: Poison on December 15, 2016, 01:07:56 PM

Quote from: Wods317 on December 15, 2016, 12:22:36 PM

The good thing we have going for us when we hire another coach (whenever that is) is that we play in a great city, in a great conference and we have a historically good program even though the last 15 years have been more bad then good. There will be talented coaches who will want to come here because they see all the positives and think they can be the guy to turn this around. I don't see any big name coach leaving a top 25 program no but for an up and coming coach this will be an attractive job.

People gave Lavin shit for living in Soho. Really, can you blame him?

Not even sure what you're talking about but thanks. A good mid major coach would love to coach in the one of the best conferences in the country especially in NY/NJ because of the local talent, not much to debate there. Talking about young mid major coaches not Coach K here.

Insert eyeball roll here. 

Why not make an intelligent counter argument instead of this type of remark. And people wonder why others stop posting? We are all fans of the same team.

You're right...let me try harder.  Here's the typical St John's fan with his pipe dream of his team being relevant again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cloAZZArMks

Things have not gone smoothly but all the people throwing around 20 wins contributed to all the whining going on now!
 Enjoy the guards, Simon and Clark will help next year and bring in a reliable JUCO big and we will be better next year.

Those of you who are already complaining about Mullin should start rooting for Iona or Fordham.  Mullin inherited a bare cupboard and did his best to come up with a team to put on the floor last year.  2015-16 was on Lavin, Mullin is realistically only 11 games into what is his responsibility.  He has started from scratch and signed some promising players who are, unfortunately, playing like the inexperienced team that they are. Yes, the defense is poor but his best players are young and from AAU programs or from Europe or JC.....these backgrounds all play poor defense.  The team will learn to play D just like they are rapidly learning how to move the ball,  Lets wait and see, I expect continuing improvement this year.  They will win a few they shouldn't and lose a lot,  but they will learn.  By tournament time I expect them to be a tough out.

Those of you who are already complaining about Mullin should start rooting for Iona or Fordham.  Mullin inherited a bare cupboard and did his best to come up with a team to put on the floor last year.  2015-16 was on Lavin, Mullin is realistically only 11 games into what is his responsibility.  He has started from scratch and signed some promising players who are, unfortunately, playing like the inexperienced team that they are. Yes, the defense is poor but his best players are young and from AAU programs or from Europe or JC.....these backgrounds all play poor defense.  The team will learn to play D just like they are rapidly learning how to move the ball,  Lets wait and see, I expect continuing improvement this year.  They will win a few they shouldn't and lose a lot,  but they will learn.  By tournament time I expect them to be a tough out.

I think people have acknowledged that Mullin had to start from scratch. This team actually has talent. There's no denying that the offense is significantly better if not unrecognizable.

Still, it's fair to comment on what we see in the games. I think you're right in choosing to be positive in regards to the team learning how to play defense. That's the part of all of this that is so puzzling. For ages we couldnt shoot no matter who was coaching, but now we have the best 3 point shooters on one team maybe ever, and there's no hustle on defense.

Mullin has to inspire this group to get after it the way Tariq Owens does.

Quote from: cjfish on December 16, 2016, 09:39:49 AM

Those of you who are already complaining about Mullin should start rooting for Iona or Fordham.  Mullin inherited a bare cupboard and did his best to come up with a team to put on the floor last year.  2015-16 was on Lavin, Mullin is realistically only 11 games into what is his responsibility.  He has started from scratch and signed some promising players who are, unfortunately, playing like the inexperienced team that they are. Yes, the defense is poor but his best players are young and from AAU programs or from Europe or JC.....these backgrounds all play poor defense.  The team will learn to play D just like they are rapidly learning how to move the ball,  Lets wait and see, I expect continuing improvement this year.  They will win a few they shouldn't and lose a lot,  but they will learn.  By tournament time I expect them to be a tough out.

I think people have acknowledged that Mullin had to start from scratch. This team actually has talent. There's no denying that the offense is significantly better if not unrecognizable.

Still, it's fair to comment on what we see in the games. I think you're right in choosing to be positive in regards to the team learning how to play defense. That's the part of all of this that is so puzzling. For ages we couldnt shoot no matter who was coaching, but now we have the best 3 point shooters on one team maybe ever, and there's no hustle on defense.

Mullin has to inspire this group to get after it the way Tariq Owens does.

I agree with you on the hustle aspect. I am not saying the team is lazy but sometimes in the games they get up and they really hustle for a possesion and they look great. Then at others times they look a little slow to rotate and move. If they can keep that intensity more often I think you would see a big improvement on D. This team can score and if the improve steadily on D they can be dangerous.

Norm took over a disaster of a program, on a sorts of levels.

Marco Baldi:  The only poster I know who could be a Norm apologist through five years but kills the Mullin staff after 1+.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 15, 2016, 09:55:44 PM

Norm took over a disaster of a program, on a sorts of levels.

Marco Baldi:  The only poster I know who could be a Norm apologist through five years but kills the Mullin staff after 1+.

I save judgement on Mullin until next year, where given our talent level we should compete for the post season.

As for Norm, I hold him in high esteem for being the sacrificial lamb of a coach in the post Jarvis/Pittsburg debacle.  He knew what he was getting into, and sacrificed his career for our program. I think thats worth something and am thankful to him for it. We had a turble team that by their senior year made the tourney (albeit under Lavins watch (and Dunleavy)).

Quote from: TONYD3 on December 14, 2016, 11:59:40 AM

Next year there will be plenty of talent on our roster. However if we have the season that I think we have I hope he quits. Winning 8/9 games should not under any circumstances be acceptable.

So let me understand this, in league play we went 1-17 last year, let's say we go 4-14 this year, and 3-15 next year, you don't believe the circumstances warrant patience? You think that would mean Mullin isn't a good coach and we should move on?

No one bit. 1-17, 4-14, 3-15. That was Tom Crean's league record first 3 year's in Indiana. A better program, he inherited a better team, and he is considered a really good coach. Bottom line fella's is it takes time. It starts at being able to asses talent. The talent isn't here, fans need to stop being delusional. I like what I see on the offensive end. Player's will want to play in this system. It's a pro-style system and will allow players to show case there talents. I'm concerned about the defense, but it appears Mullin's position is that we should have scored 90 against LIU. He will still get players, this notion of having a good record to get good players is overblown. It didn't hurt Crean. Look for gradual improvement and sustainability. Takes 4-5 years.   

Quote from: Marco Baldi on December 15, 2016, 09:55:44 PM

Norm took over a disaster of a program, on a sorts of levels.

Marco Baldi:  The only poster I know who could be a Norm apologist through five years but kills the Mullin staff after 1+.

Said this many times over the years,...what's worse? Not getting top talent and losing, or getting top talent and still in the same place? At the bottom.

This is a message board. The silence from some posters is deafening