Providence Game Thread

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 26, 2017, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 02:47:55 AM

- I find it gratifying to win games at the free throw stripe. LP have been amazing from there (pretty much amazing from everywhere on the court offensively) all year and even Bash who's struggled previously gets into the act at 3 for 3.  90% as a team.

- Tremendous use of all his timeouts in the second half with oodles of time left to successfully tourniquet the bleeding.  Ata boy coach!

- Our defense s*cks.  86 points is ridiculous. We gotta do something.

- 2 BE road wins at the mid-point.  Not too shabby.

- Live by the three.....Live by the three!  48% on the day.  You sure this is a St. John's team?

- My favorite sequence was right before half-time when Lovett fouls Pc on purpose putting them on the line just so he could get the ball back again for the last second shot.  Ponds held up his hands asking for the ball but there was no way Marcus was giving it up then he nails the acrobatic falling down 30 ft. last second chuck for three.  Onions!!!

It is very strange to see a St.John's team that can shoot, but doesn't bother to play defense.

Right?  I am not at all comfortable with this new action packed, exciting style of play.

I wish we would go back to a slow, walk it up, nobody gets to 60 pts. Carnesseca like boring style of play.

You mean back when we routinely made the NCAA tournament?

That style also worked out well when Norm was coaching.

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 26, 2017, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 02:47:55 AM

- I find it gratifying to win games at the free throw stripe. LP have been amazing from there (pretty much amazing from everywhere on the court offensively) all year and even Bash who's struggled previously gets into the act at 3 for 3.  90% as a team.

- Tremendous use of all his timeouts in the second half with oodles of time left to successfully tourniquet the bleeding.  Ata boy coach!

- Our defense s*cks.  86 points is ridiculous. We gotta do something.

- 2 BE road wins at the mid-point.  Not too shabby.

- Live by the three.....Live by the three!  48% on the day.  You sure this is a St. John's team?

- My favorite sequence was right before half-time when Lovett fouls Pc on purpose putting them on the line just so he could get the ball back again for the last second shot.  Ponds held up his hands asking for the ball but there was no way Marcus was giving it up then he nails the acrobatic falling down 30 ft. last second chuck for three.  Onions!!!

It is very strange to see a St.John's team that can shoot, but doesn't bother to play defense.

Right?  I am not at all comfortable with this new action packed, exciting style of play.

I wish we would go back to a slow, walk it up, nobody gets to 60 pts. Carnesseca like boring style of play.

You mean back when we routinely made the NCAA tournament?

That style also worked out well when Norm was coaching.

What's your point? This team is 10-12.

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 10:48:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 26, 2017, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 02:47:55 AM

- I find it gratifying to win games at the free throw stripe. LP have been amazing from there (pretty much amazing from everywhere on the court offensively) all year and even Bash who's struggled previously gets into the act at 3 for 3.  90% as a team.

- Tremendous use of all his timeouts in the second half with oodles of time left to successfully tourniquet the bleeding.  Ata boy coach!

- Our defense s*cks.  86 points is ridiculous. We gotta do something.

- 2 BE road wins at the mid-point.  Not too shabby.

- Live by the three.....Live by the three!  48% on the day.  You sure this is a St. John's team?

- My favorite sequence was right before half-time when Lovett fouls Pc on purpose putting them on the line just so he could get the ball back again for the last second shot.  Ponds held up his hands asking for the ball but there was no way Marcus was giving it up then he nails the acrobatic falling down 30 ft. last second chuck for three.  Onions!!!

It is very strange to see a St.John's team that can shoot, but doesn't bother to play defense.

Right?  I am not at all comfortable with this new action packed, exciting style of play.

I wish we would go back to a slow, walk it up, nobody gets to 60 pts. Carnesseca like boring style of play.

You mean back when we routinely made the NCAA tournament?

That style also worked out well when Norm was coaching.

What's your point? This team is 10-12.

My point is that the style of play doesn't matter if you lose. If you want to compare Lou's 25 year career following Lapchick's 25 year career to Mullin following Lavin and Norm go ahead but it's silly. Saint John's fans have been whining about playing up tempo for 50 years and as soon as they see it they start bemoaning the loss of Carmine Calzonetti.

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 11:07:16 AM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 10:48:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 26, 2017, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 02:47:55 AM

- I find it gratifying to win games at the free throw stripe. LP have been amazing from there (pretty much amazing from everywhere on the court offensively) all year and even Bash who's struggled previously gets into the act at 3 for 3.  90% as a team.

- Tremendous use of all his timeouts in the second half with oodles of time left to successfully tourniquet the bleeding.  Ata boy coach!

- Our defense s*cks.  86 points is ridiculous. We gotta do something.

- 2 BE road wins at the mid-point.  Not too shabby.

- Live by the three.....Live by the three!  48% on the day.  You sure this is a St. John's team?

- My favorite sequence was right before half-time when Lovett fouls Pc on purpose putting them on the line just so he could get the ball back again for the last second shot.  Ponds held up his hands asking for the ball but there was no way Marcus was giving it up then he nails the acrobatic falling down 30 ft. last second chuck for three.  Onions!!!

It is very strange to see a St.John's team that can shoot, but doesn't bother to play defense.

Right?  I am not at all comfortable with this new action packed, exciting style of play.

I wish we would go back to a slow, walk it up, nobody gets to 60 pts. Carnesseca like boring style of play.

You mean back when we routinely made the NCAA tournament?

That style also worked out well when Norm was coaching.

What's your point? This team is 10-12.

My point is that the style of play doesn't matter if you lose. If you want to compare Lou's 25 year career following Lapchick's 25 year career to Mullin following Lavin and Norm go ahead but it's silly. Saint John's fans have been whining about playing up tempo for 50 years and as soon as they see it they start bemoaning the loss of Carmine Calzonetti.

Outside of the games where we we out manned physically and a couple where I thought the guys got frustrated and gave up, I have enjoyed watching this year's team. If we can keep the two guards and get a serviceable big to pair with Clark and Owens next year we will be much better next year.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

I agree but there are exceptions, notably Pat Riley.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

Successful coaches don't change their style because once they are recognized as highly successful--they get the pick of the litter.  They are able to replace with top players who fit their system.  When you only get the leftovers, you have to figure out how to make them work.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths. Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

You can choose to play man or zone essentially regardless of your personnel. It's the adjustments you make inside those defenses to fit your personnel that matter. If you have an elite shot blocker in the paint, you will have your guards play tighter on the perimeter forcing teams to penetrate. If your tallest player is 6-6 you're gonna tell your guards to sag on the perimeter to prevent penetration

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

Why would that be sarcasm? Successful coaches recruit players to fit their systems and way of doing things.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

Why would that be sarcasm? Successful coaches recruit players to fit their systems and way of doing things.

Yes but oftentimes the players they get don't perfectly fit the system, so they adjust the system to fit the players. Sometimes it's minor adjustments, sometimes it's major adjustments. You can look at almost any of the top coaches in CBB probably aside from Tony Bennett and see how they have had completely different styles of play in some years compared to others

Quote from: Marillac on January 27, 2017, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

Why would that be sarcasm? Successful coaches recruit players to fit their systems and way of doing things.

Yes but oftentimes the players they get don't perfectly fit the system, so they adjust the system to fit the players. Sometimes it's minor adjustments, sometimes it's major adjustments. You can look at almost any of the top coaches in CBB probably aside from Tony Bennett and see how they have had completely different styles of play in some years compared to others

That's called coaching

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:50:50 PM

Quote from: Marillac on January 27, 2017, 01:43:26 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

Why would that be sarcasm? Successful coaches recruit players to fit their systems and way of doing things.

Yes but oftentimes the players they get don't perfectly fit the system, so they adjust the system to fit the players. Sometimes it's minor adjustments, sometimes it's major adjustments. You can look at almost any of the top coaches in CBB probably aside from Tony Bennett and see how they have had completely different styles of play in some years compared to others

That's called coaching

With thought processes like this it's no wonder we haven't had a competent one in years

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

You are going to take this the wrong way. Not my intention. Chris mullin and his staff of inexperienced coaches have not proven to be successful coaches.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

If you watch some Syracuse games from the 80's or even early 90's, you'll see Syracuse playing lots of man defense.  Boeheim would often mix up his defenses.  But, they certainly played their fair share of man-to-man defense.

Today, they rarely ever play man defense (unless, they're down by a bunch of points, and even then he's reluctant to come out of the zone).

You are going to take this the wrong way. Not my intention. Chris mullin and his staff of inexperienced coaches have not proven to be successful coaches.

Can we assume they're trying to succeed?

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

If you watch some Syracuse games from the 80's or even early 90's, you'll see Syracuse playing lots of man defense.  Boeheim would often mix up his defenses.  But, they certainly played their fair share of man-to-man defense. 

And presumably we'd watch those games on black and white televisions with rabbit ears and get up to turn the channel during commercials.