Lindy’s and Athlon

The fact that you mentioning that last years team had no depth or size as a positive is mind boggling.

Oh brother.  That part of the sentence was mentioned as a negative. The " achieved as much as any other SJ season beginning with a 2" was the positive portion of that sentence.

 
But you don’t have much to argue. (Yakwe and Owens)

I don't even know what that means.

Chris mullin - no job
Part time Mitch- no job
St. Jean- is a coach- But so far down on the totem pole, he can’t even sit on the bench.

Brian Mahoney - no job
Fran Fraschilla - no job
Mike Jarvis - no job
Norm Roberts - lucky Self loves him
Steve Lavin - no job
Heck, Lou Carnesecca - no job

Do you actually think it's necessary to demonstrate to knowledgeable St. John fans like myself that the corner of Union and Utiopia is where coaching careers come to die?

I think we finish in 6th place this year. I don’t think anyone quits the team mid season. I don’t think any player transfers mid season. I think almost all the players on the current roster graduate with a degree from St. John’s. After next year I think we never play another game on Wednesday night of the big east. (I think their is a good chance we don’t play that night this year or next.)

Year 1 culture and defense. We are going to have a team that we can be proud of.

That is far too much conjecture for me to even begin to comment on.

7th place with the top talent in have big east sucks. 7th place with this year’s team working hard is a good start.

Your anti-greatest Johnny of all-time bias shines through yet again.

Sounds like you agree it hasn't as you make players recruited by the prior staff sound awesome.

Ummmm no it doesn’t. The players were good, the coaching was beyond terrible, two separate things. Do you expect us to have a better or worse BE record this year compared to last year?

Carmine- why did the hero give so much responsibility to Greg St. Jean? Can’t wait for your reply. Will find it just as amusing if you say St. jean really wasn’t the REAL coach. But please answer

Ummmm no it doesn’t. The players were good, the coaching was beyond terrible, two separate things.

As you may or may not know, acquiring players is an important aspect of coaching.  Many say in fact the most important. 

Do you expect us to have a better or worse BE record this year compared to last year?

I expect it to be worse.

Carmine- why did the hero give so much responsibility to Greg St. Jean? Can’t wait for your reply. Will find it just as amusing if you say St. jean really wasn’t the REAL coach. But please answer

Being that I never attended a single one of their practices, I have no idea how much responsibility was given to St. Jean.  I know that actual knowledge about something does not typically preclude one from typing out their a$$ on and on about it in this forum. Not this cowboy.

I did recognize that St. Jean did do a yeomans amount of game day coaching. Perhaps more than you might typically see an assistant do. 

Perhaps it's because Chris respected and valued his input? Perhaps it's because Chris felt Greg was better at articulating their shared vision? Perhaps it's because Chris knew he's closer in age to the players and could better speak their language and had more knowledge of hip hop music? Perhaps it's because Chris promised Greg's father he would? Perhaps it's because Slice left and the school wouldn't pony up for another high priced assistant? Perhaps it's because Chris was an inexperienced coach himself and still learning on the job?

In the end I don't see that any of it matters much. You either win basketball games or you don't ...period.

Carmine- we agree either you win games or you don’t. If your boy would have done even a half assed job and got someone better to coach for him. He might still be here. Thankfully his arrogance or his stupidity led him to keep St. Jean in charge of the team.

What is most amusing to me, is that all of you mullin fans know he didn’t coach, know he didn’t recruit, but want him anyway.
“St. Jean did yeoman’s amount of game day coaching” how could you type that and still want this man to be our coach? Matt did the yeoman’s amount of recruiting.
What did Chris and Mitch do? Do you think they even attended  practice? I assume they were there atleast some of the time.

As you may or may not know, acquiring players is an important aspect of coaching.  Many say in fact the most important. 

As you have said, we had no bigs and no bench.

If your boy 

He's not my boy...he's our boy.  If you consider yourself a St. John's fan at all...you and your cronies should be ashamed of yourselves. Or being that we are often incapable of seeing ourselves as we truly are...perhaps your parents are.

As you have said, we had no bigs and no bench.

You pointed out this "We lose the pre-season BE player of the year candidate, the BE defensive player of the year" and said this " The players were good".  Now you want to point to recruiting deficiencies?  You can't have it both ways.  Make up your mind.

He's not my boy...he's our boy.  If you consider yourself a St. John's fan at all...you and your cronies should be ashamed of yourselves. Or being that we are often incapable of seeing ourselves as we truly are...perhaps your parents are.

He absolutely isn’t my boy. I don’t hate him because he was a bad coach. I hate him because he didn’t try. You can make as many excuses for him as you want. He is an adult man and asked for the job. Maybe he made a mistake. But he did NOTHING to fix it. Not even an apology. The lazy man had the audacity to ask for an extension. His shortcomings (negligence) was obvious from day 1. Everyone who gave him a pass deserves some of the blame.

Thanks Samuel Beckett with a head injury.

nice

'I hate him because he didn’t try.  The lazy man.' 

I am not aware that he didn't try and was lazy and would imagine that one would have to be extremely close to the team, like being a player or staff, to know that.  That's more likely your perception than reality. 

When I watched the games, which was nearly every game, I never got the impression that he wasn't trying and/or was lazy except when he sat on the scorers table a couple of times.

Your delusional.....How about the time when he sat in the huddle tying his shoes in a one possession game vs GTOWN and the whole nation saw it as it was one of Fox's Inside the Huddle. He didnt say one word. As much as i loved Mullin him and the staff underachieved by wide margins.
1.Not one winning record conference record
2.played on Wednesday night every year of big east. 3.
Snuck into the tourney with some of the highest rated recruits St. Johns has ever had on a team.
4.Never filled out a full roster

Was Matt good at his job he was ok at best, too many sit out transfers who did not pan out..Ponds and Heron were coming here regardless of Matt ....he put together a C/C+ team at best.....Mitch did NOTHING   

Was Matt good at his job he was ok at best, too many sit out transfers who did not pan out..

Other than Keita and Dixon can you name these sit out transfers who didn't pan out? That's two. Wright could be considered three I suppose but we'll never know what sort of player he might have become under Mullin and Richmond's masterful tutelage.

Ponds and Heron were coming here regardless of Matt ....he put together a C/C+ team at best

A C/C+ meaning average team that won 20 games and made the tournament? That's coach of the year stuff right there.

You pointed out this "We lose the pre-season BE player of the year candidate, the BE defensive player of the year" and said this " The players were good".  Now you want to point to recruiting deficiencies?  You can't have it both ways.  Make up your mind.

I pointed to what YOU said. YOU said we had no bigs and no bench. Which according to what YOU said is “recruiting deficiencies”. YOU said an important element of coaching is acquiring players. Sounds like you believe the staff didn’t do well but refuse to say it.

Other than Keita and Dixon can you name these sit out transfers who didn't pan out? That's two. Wright could be considered three I suppose but we'll never know what sort of player he might have become under Mullin and Richmond's masterful tutelage.

A C/C+ meaning average team that won 20 games and made the tournament? That's coach of the year stuff right there.

The heart of the problem was the lack of continuity. Whether they were a sit out a transfer, a Euro, a local talent etc. doesn’t matter.

Too many kids didn’t stick around long enough to improve. Continuity is something a college basketball program can’t live without.

The heart of the problem was the lack of continuity. Whether they were a sit out a transfer, a Euro, a local talent etc. doesn’t matter.

Too many kids didn’t stick around long enough to improve. Continuity is something a college basketball program can’t live without.

I don't disagree with the larger point (the importance of continuity) but my comment was directed specifically to the fiction that sit out transfers were a big problem, because they weren't.

A vaguely interesting point is that none of the players who left did better where they went than when they were at SJU. Ellison became a worse player at a worse program. Sima was a non factor at OSU, as was Yawke at UConn, as was Darien Williams at Nevada. Even Elijah Holifield was less productive. The exception is Tarik Owens - who graduated - only because he bought into what the staff at TT was selling, that is, rebound and play defense, as opposed to what Renard sells houses was selling, which was Tarik should shoot as often as he touched the ball.

I don't disagree with the larger point (the importance of continuity) but my comment was directed specifically to the fiction that sit out transfers were a big problem, because they weren't.

A vaguely interesting point is that none of the players who left did better where they went than when they were at SJU. Ellison became a worse player at a worse program. Sima was a non factor at OSU, as was Yawke at UConn, as was Darien Williams at Nevada. Even Elijah Holifield was less productive. The exception is Tarik Owens - who graduated - only because he bought into what the staff at TT was selling, that is, rebound and play defense, as opposed to what Renard sells houses was selling, which was Tarik should shoot as often as he touched the ball.

There wasn’t one single recruiting strategy that was THE problem. Certainly not sit out transfers. Mikey Dixon for example, was a good player. His talent wasn’t the problem. He didn’t stick around. That’s what he has in common with at least a dozen other players that Mullin could have developed into better basketball players, but they took off.

nice

Old man. Your so senile that you still think coach Mullins wasn’t a lazy bum.

I pointed to what YOU said. YOU said we had no bigs and no bench. Which according to what YOU said is “recruiting deficiencies”. YOU said an important element of coaching is acquiring players. Sounds like you believe the staff didn’t do well but refuse to say it.

I don't refuse to say anything. I post facts and truth. I've never said that Mullin and staff were perfect nor that his tenure here was a runaway success.

Yes, unlike you I feel that the staffs failure to recruit enough quality players in general and bigs in particular was a major shortcoming.

In contrast, you feel that "The players were good" and point out that "We lose the pre-season BE player of the year candidate, the BE defensive player of the year".

My points are consistent.  You want to waffle argue that the players were good, the coaches were bad while ignoring the obvious that getting good players is a large part of what makes coaches good.