The Glories of Avery Patterson, by Carmine

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Quote from: peter on May 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Yeah... that one is wildly, wildly off.  It would read like this: For a tall guard whose best offensive move was "stand in the corner and wait to shoot a spot-up jumper" he was pretty awful at it, especially against Big East defenses.  And he shot something like 30-35% INSIDE the arc on the few 2-pointers he took.  He had no touch, the team won a couple of games (and lost many) despite his turdtacular shooting, he had no moves, and he should have given his time to Larry Wright, telling the team "I let you down and should be sued for my theft of a scholarship." 

Ok, not that harsh, but he was an egregiously bad player.  At least he hit his free throws...

I think he could have been better with another year, and I think having another experienced player would have helped Norm and the belief that he could keep players happy... but Avery wasn't very good.

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on May 17, 2010, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: peter on May 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Yeah... that one is wildly, wildly off.  It would read like this: For a tall guard whose best offensive move was "stand in the corner and wait to shoot a spot-up jumper" he was pretty awful at it, especially against Big East defenses.  And he shot something like 30-35% INSIDE the arc on the few 2-pointers he took.  He had no touch, the team won a couple of games (and lost many) despite his turdtacular shooting, he had no moves, and he should have given his time to Larry Wright, telling the team "I let you down and should be sued for my theft of a scholarship." 

Ok, not that harsh, but he was an egregiously bad player.  At least he hit his free throws...

I think he could have been better with another year, and I think having another experienced player would have helped Norm and the belief that he could keep players happy... but Avery wasn't very good.

He holds the single season St. John's record for most three pointers EVER.  Look it up.

He should be praised, not villified.

Quote from: peter on May 17, 2010, 10:49:47 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on May 17, 2010, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: peter on May 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Yeah... that one is wildly, wildly off.  It would read like this: For a tall guard whose best offensive move was "stand in the corner and wait to shoot a spot-up jumper" he was pretty awful at it, especially against Big East defenses.  And he shot something like 30-35% INSIDE the arc on the few 2-pointers he took.  He had no touch, the team won a couple of games (and lost many) despite his turdtacular shooting, he had no moves, and he should have given his time to Larry Wright, telling the team "I let you down and should be sued for my theft of a scholarship." 

Ok, not that harsh, but he was an egregiously bad player.  At least he hit his free throws...

I think he could have been better with another year, and I think having another experienced player would have helped Norm and the belief that he could keep players happy... but Avery wasn't very good.

He holds the single season St. John's record for most three pointers EVER.  Look it up.

He should be praised, not villified.

Have you ever coached or played organized basketball, carmine?

Quote from: peter on May 17, 2010, 10:49:47 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on May 17, 2010, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: peter on May 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Yeah... that one is wildly, wildly off.  It would read like this: For a tall guard whose best offensive move was "stand in the corner and wait to shoot a spot-up jumper" he was pretty awful at it, especially against Big East defenses.  And he shot something like 30-35% INSIDE the arc on the few 2-pointers he took.  He had no touch, the team won a couple of games (and lost many) despite his turdtacular shooting, he had no moves, and he should have given his time to Larry Wright, telling the team "I let you down and should be sued for my theft of a scholarship." 

Ok, not that harsh, but he was an egregiously bad player.  At least he hit his free throws...

I think he could have been better with another year, and I think having another experienced player would have helped Norm and the belief that he could keep players happy... but Avery wasn't very good.

He holds the single season St. John's record for most three pointers EVER.  Look it up.

He should be praised, not villified.

Patterson wasnt efficient.  He threw it up 220 (abt 7 a game)from three and made 72.  If you chuck it up enough anyone could get that record. 

Horne and Hardy combined last year only Shot it 260 times from three and made 98 total, big difference. 

And that is just talking about outside shooting, the only thing Avery Patterson focused on.
   

Patterson could do it against a BE team. The guy was good spot up
shooter, but he was too much of a liabilty in every other aspect of the game.

He was lazy, arrogant and soft. A bad recipe for the BE.

Norm Roberts clearly never should have pushed Cedric Jackson out.
We could have really used him. Might have made the NIT with him and Gray still on the team.

Patterson left SJU, and where did he go? What great programs were after him?

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on May 17, 2010, 11:02:36 PM

Quote from: peter on May 17, 2010, 10:49:47 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on May 17, 2010, 10:25:28 AM

Quote from: peter on May 14, 2010, 02:29:36 PM

http://johnnyjungle.com/calm-before-the-storm/2010-position-review-sg/

I think Carmine's got a point here, folks.  Hardy was awesome in the non-conference... then he was not.  He wasn't bad like Avery Patterson, but... well, read the link above.

Wow.  I come out with one of my insane postions and I get a full, unbelievably so detailed statistical analysis of why I'm correct?  What a country.

For your next project, please provide this type of analysis proving once and for all that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson is the greatest Johnny bomber of all-time.

Yeah... that one is wildly, wildly off.  It would read like this: For a tall guard whose best offensive move was "stand in the corner and wait to shoot a spot-up jumper" he was pretty awful at it, especially against Big East defenses.  And he shot something like 30-35% INSIDE the arc on the few 2-pointers he took.  He had no touch, the team won a couple of games (and lost many) despite his turdtacular shooting, he had no moves, and he should have given his time to Larry Wright, telling the team "I let you down and should be sued for my theft of a scholarship." 

Ok, not that harsh, but he was an egregiously bad player.  At least he hit his free throws...

I think he could have been better with another year, and I think having another experienced player would have helped Norm and the belief that he could keep players happy... but Avery wasn't very good.

He holds the single season St. John's record for most three pointers EVER.  Look it up.

He should be praised, not villified.

Have you ever coached or played organized basketball, carmine?

That's a very odd off topic question?

Carmine is just messing with us. Calm down guys!

Not off topic at all.  I just think your opinion re: patterson's alleged greatness would make sense if you had never played nor coached organized ball. You may not realize quite as much how an inefficient chucker can hurt the team despite breaking records.

Not off topic at all.  I just think your opinion re: patterson's alleged greatness would make sense if you had never played nor coached organized ball. You wouldn't realize quite as much how an inefficient chucker can hurt the team despite breaking records.

Stop that.  That's silly talk.  I didn't play or coach organized ball (played some disorganized ball and my sports were different), but I know how an inefficient chucker can hurt the team.  A layman knows that.  A stathead knows that.  My wife knows that (and she's never been an athlete at all). 

Carmine's opinion is either a) a half joke (though the ability to get shots off is sometimes a very good skill; but behind the 3-point line, it just means the team's looking for you or b) a full joke. 

Quote from: Tha Kid on May 19, 2010, 08:49:02 AM

Not off topic at all.  I just think your opinion re: patterson's alleged greatness would make sense if you had never played nor coached organized ball. You wouldn't realize quite as much how an inefficient chucker can hurt the team despite breaking records.

Stop that.  That's silly talk.  I didn't play or coach organized ball (played some disorganized ball and my sports were different), but I know how an inefficient chucker can hurt the team.  A layman knows that.  A stathead knows that.  My wife knows that (and she's never been an athlete at all). 

Carmine's opinion is either a) a half joke (though the ability to get shots off is sometimes a very good skill; but behind the 3-point line, it just means the team's looking for you or b) a full joke. 

Peter this is like the old a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square argument.

I did not mean to imply that someone who did not play or coach organized ball would not know as well.

I meant to emphasize, given Carmine's absolutely ridiculous opinion, I would be LESS surprised if he had never played or coached before.  Because ANYONE who has played or coached would know that Patterson's 3s while being a chucker and playing no D does not make him a "better shooter."

P Was not intending to, put down those who have not played or coached organized ball before.

Peter this is like the old a square is always a rectangle but a rectangle is not always a square argument.

I did not mean to imply that someone who did not play or coach organized ball would not know as well.

I meant to emphasize, given Carmine's absolutely ridiculous opinion, I would be LESS surprised if he had never played or coached before.  Because ANYONE who has played or coached would know that Patterson's 3s while being a chucker and playing no D does not make him a "better shooter."

P Was not intending to, put down those who have not played or coached organized ball before.

That's cool.

Man, Avery... he had a terrible year.

It is my allegedly ridiculous opinion that Avery "3 point record holder" Patterson holds the single season record for most 3 pointers ever by a St. John's player with 72.

More than D-buckets, Prez, Hilton, Shaw, Boo, Porter, Hatten, Show, Cook, Luyk and any other player that's put on the uniform.

He did this all under an offensively challanged coach, a major understatement, still in his formative? years with a point guard in his freshman/soph? year who's ineptitude had to be seen to be believed.

Yes, his shooting percentage was not great.(totals and percentages would have been better if not for NR's mishandling of the PC headband incident) However, just to get that many shots off on this team with this point and this offense is an accomplishment all to itself.

This amazing season from this great Johnny will stand in the record books forever as a constant reminder to you "that there are none so blind as those that will not see".

As to my personal basketball history,  I coached a grand total of 2 Pal games and played dis-organized basketball for years.  I am currently an active basketball official that sees many, many basketball games.  More than enough to spot a stud when I see one and certaintly enough to render my opinion more valuable than yours.

CA

you realize 72 3's isnt even that good, and wouldn't be the st johns record if there was a 3 point line when Mullin was in college, right?  Jacob Pullen and Jon Scheyer both had over 100 3s this year...and I don't think anyone considers them extremely prolific 3 point shooters...


So basically Avery has the record for most 3's in the worst stretch of basketball in the history of st. john's, and did it on one of the worst teams of all time who had no real scoring options, which allowed him to go nuts.

This dismal record says more about the total lack of st. john's in having 3 point specialists, than saying ANYTHING positive about Avery Patterson.

And it is scary that you havent picked up more knowledge by being a ref....lucky for you, refereeing just means you know the rules of basketball well...says/shows NOTHING about your eye for assessig talent.

He did this all under an offensively challanged coach, a major understatement, still in his formative? years with a point guard in his freshman/soph? year who's ineptitude had to be seen to be believed.

Besides the fact that headband throwing is not acceptable, Patterson played with the junior Eugene Lawrence, who enjoyed arguably his best year in the Red Storm uniform.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on May 07, 2010, 10:51:06 AM

Does he look like the odd man out here? Hardy should start, with Paris battling for bench minutes. Thoughts?

Depends on how many thousand free throws a day he takes over the summer.

idk if its anything but his head...55% for him last year is just puzzling...his other shooting numbers werent bad...but i say leave the shooter on the floor, bring in horne off the bench...i think hardy more than any other player, changed the game in a positive way, for us last year...he has the ability to get hot and put together stretches of play that can put teams away...idr even seeing that from dj much last year...its nice that loyal norm is gone and we are gonna see playing time distributed honestly this year

Patterson played with the junior Eugene Lawrence, who enjoyed arguably his best year in the Red Storm uniform.

This is akin to saying in (fill in the blank) year, George W. Bush enjoyed arguably his best year in the White House.  Geno stunk every year of his career as did Bush.  None of it was arguably enjoyable.

72 threes on that team with that coach/point guard tandem is a freakin miracle.  If Avery "three point record holder" Patterson had the priviledge of playing with Omar under the "Program Destroyer",  he would have gone off for 100.

I have this image of Matt Brust in my mind from the Duke game in 07.
He was screaming at Patterson.

Henderson was guarding Patterson, and it felt like he wasn't even trying on defense. There was really no need to try. Patterson was hopping along like a dainty butterfly. Never once breaking free from Henderson.

Brust just kept yelling the same thing. "Move. Move. Move" Yet Patterson just stood there, and then didn't get back on defense.

Perhaps if we were playing Navy, or North Florida, A Patt could have gone off in the Garden. But he was softer than Charmin. Clearly. How anyone can't see that is truly amazing.

you realize 72 3's isnt even that good

And you realize that 72 3's isnt even that bad.  In fact, it's more 3's than any other player has made in a single season in the entire history of our beloved franchise.

So basically Avery has the record for most 3's in the worst stretch of basketball in the history of st. john's,
and did it on one of the worst teams of all time who had no real scoring options

Now your starting to come around to my side of it.

This dismal record says more about the total lack of st. john's in having 3 point specialists, than saying ANYTHING positive about Avery Patterson.

You guys all act like he broke the record for most turnovers in a season.  Hitting many 3's is a good thing and to hold a record at it is certainly SOMETHING positive.

refereeing just means you know the rules of basketball well

Many coaches have thought otherwise.

...says/shows NOTHING about your eye for assessig talent.

My eye for assessing talent is keen.  You should see me in a Pittsburgh strip club.

Patterson helped us beat the worst Syracuse team Jim Boeheim has ever coached. He threw a couple of lucky shots late. For that, I applaud him. It was great to be there.

However, maybe you should look at his stats against real teams.
Destroying bad teams doesn't make you great, or even good.

If he was any good, how did he wind up
playing D3 ball the next year?