Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - IONA

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #240 on: June 17, 2011, 09:59:44 PM »
Marcus, you forgot Rakeem Christmas on Syracuse but in essence you're right.  Big men are hard to come by in college hoops.   That said Sampson's supposedly not a true big either so I think what folks are saying is STJ is going into the season with two bigs and that can be tough.  Most BE teams have a few 6-7/8 guys like Sampson that can be used as bigs in a pinch and you're not counting them on the other teams.

Yank, I have news for you.  Jakarr is the same size as Christmas. 

That would be nice though everything I read has Rakeem 1-2 inches taller and 10-30 pounds heavier.  That said everything I read also lists Christmas as a C and Sampson as a SF and that's really the important point.

MCNPA

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #241 on: June 17, 2011, 11:16:42 PM »
Marcus, you forgot Rakeem Christmas on Syracuse but in essence you're right.  Big men are hard to come by in college hoops.   That said Sampson's supposedly not a true big either so I think what folks are saying is STJ is going into the season with two bigs and that can be tough.  Most BE teams have a few 6-7/8 guys like Sampson that can be used as bigs in a pinch and you're not counting them on the other teams.

Yank, I have news for you.  Jakarr is the same size as Christmas. 

That would be nice though everything I read has Rakeem 1-2 inches taller and 10-30 pounds heavier.  That said everything I read also lists Christmas as a C and Sampson as a SF and that's really the important point.

It's not and you're wrong.  Christmas is 6'8" and a PF.  Jakarr is 6'8" and a SF/PF.  I remember at one point I saw Khem birch reported at 6'11 when he first came on the scene, but he too is a PF at about 6'8".  I could care less who is 10lbs heavier.  Jakarr is the same size but has the ability to drive around guys like Christmas. 

crgreen

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #242 on: June 18, 2011, 02:02:02 AM »
Marcus, you forgot Rakeem Christmas on Syracuse but in essence you're right.  Big men are hard to come by in college hoops.   That said Sampson's supposedly not a true big either so I think what folks are saying is STJ is going into the season with two bigs and that can be tough.  Most BE teams have a few 6-7/8 guys like Sampson that can be used as bigs in a pinch and you're not counting them on the other teams.

Yank, I have news for you.  Jakarr is the same size as Christmas. 

That would be nice though everything I read has Rakeem 1-2 inches taller and 10-30 pounds heavier.  That said everything I read also lists Christmas as a C and Sampson as a SF and that's really the important point.

It's not and you're wrong.  Christmas is 6'8" and a PF.  Jakarr is 6'8" and a SF/PF.  I remember at one point I saw Khem birch reported at 6'11 when he first came on the scene, but he too is a PF at about 6'8".  I could care less who is 10lbs heavier.  Jakarr is the same size but has the ability to drive around guys like Christmas.

Just an old UCLA fan here - Jakarr is the exact same size as Ed 0'Bannon, and has TWO healthy legs (Ed had his ACL replaced by a tendon from a cadaver prior to his freshman year).  All Ed was able to do was carry the Bruins to the NCAA Championship, and win College Player of the year - as a 6'8  205 lb Power Forward.  He easily got the better of guys like "Big Nasty" Corliss Williamson in the finals, Shareef Abdur-Rahim in conference.  And that was a great year for 4's - Rasheed Wallace, Joe Smith, Antonio McDeyss, Kurt Thomas, Alan Henderson, Antoine Walker, John Wallace, Roy Rodgers, Jerome WIlliams, Malik Rose...

If Jakarr ends up as our PF (I have NO idea how this all shakes out in practice - I think Pelle starts for sure at the 5, but maybe Steve will want Norvell and GG on the court at the same time to get more experience in the lineup), I'm not the least bit worried about a size mismatch.  That's one of my greatest peeves - you play the guy with the talent, not the size.   If you've got a talented small guy, you don't sit him just cause the opponent is big - you let him take advantage of the bigger, slower, lESS TALENTED body.   And of course the same holds true the other way - you don't sit a bigger talented guy because smaller players might take advantage of him with their speed or quickness.

Once upon a time, a huge kid transferred in from JC - a true center.  The coach quit that year for an NBA job, and his assistant took over.  The new coach refused to play the kid, because, he said, "the smaller centers in the league woul have taken advantage of him with their speed and quickness".   Because of that, the Kid, who was healthy all year, was only put into 11 games his senior year, for a TOTAL of 41 minutes.   Three years later, 7'4 280 lb Mark Eaton was the NBA Defensive Player of the Year.  He'd win that award twice, and be voted All NBA defensive first or 2nd team 5 times in his 10 year NBA career.  He'd retire as the NBA's all time leading shot blocker.  18 years later he's still #5 on the all time list, and #1 all time in Blocks per Game.

In his two seasons  of College, Mark was allowed to play a total of 196 minutes.  It's not like the talent wasn't evident - with what he did in his incredibly limited time on the court (27 blocks, 71 rebs), had he gotten startrs minutes, say 35 a game, that would have worked out to 4.8 blocks per game, and 12.7 rebs per game.

So I always cringe when someone says "too Small"  or "too Big" to play a certain position.  All I want to know is if he's Talented enuf to play the position.

As big of a Steve Lavin honk as I am, he's not beyond the same kind of prejudice.  At UCLA he once passed on a kid who DESPARATELY wanted to come to Westwood - but the kid was only a 6'6 high school center, and Steve didn't think he was big enuf to play PF, let alone center at the high D-1 level.  So he never offered the kid, who then signed with Kentucky.  If you follow the NBA, in 2010 with Yao Ming injured for the season, the Houston Rockets started Luis Scola for 82 games at PF.  started Trevor Ariza for 72 games at SF....and gave all 82 starts as the nominal center to 6'6 Chuck Hayes  (he also started 63 game there this past season)....Chuck MAY BE Lav's biggest screw-up in recruiting so far (even tho the move "looked good on paper) - passing on Hayes to sign 7-0 250 Mike Fey....

ras

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #243 on: June 18, 2011, 10:21:48 AM »
Dont worry Lavin Knows to play talent first, if he didnt he would of played Coker more. Good post,however.   Its not the size of the dog in the fight , but the size of the fight in the dog.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #244 on: June 18, 2011, 01:38:08 PM »
Marcus, you forgot Rakeem Christmas on Syracuse but in essence you're right.  Big men are hard to come by in college hoops.   That said Sampson's supposedly not a true big either so I think what folks are saying is STJ is going into the season with two bigs and that can be tough.  Most BE teams have a few 6-7/8 guys like Sampson that can be used as bigs in a pinch and you're not counting them on the other teams.

Yank, I have news for you.  Jakarr is the same size as Christmas. 

That would be nice though everything I read has Rakeem 1-2 inches taller and 10-30 pounds heavier.  That said everything I read also lists Christmas as a C and Sampson as a SF and that's really the important point.

It's not and you're wrong.  Christmas is 6'8" and a PF.  Jakarr is 6'8" and a SF/PF.  I remember at one point I saw Khem birch reported at 6'11 when he first came on the scene, but he too is a PF at about 6'8".  I could care less who is 10lbs heavier.  Jakarr is the same size but has the ability to drive around guys like Christmas. 

First, I'm not wrong.  ESPN/Telep, Rivals and Scout are wrong if as you claim Sampson is the same size as Christmas.  In my post I said if they were the same size that's great though"cuz Marcus says so" was not necessarily the proof I was looking for. 

And what position they play is important even if you think it's not.  Jakarr's ability to drive around guys like Christmas is further indication that he's more a 3/4, while Christmas, like his brother, is 4/5.  Not evidence supporting your point that they play the same position.  FWIW I don't think Christmas could return the favor.

Note I'm not saying that either is better than the other, just that they're different types of players and you can't just throw Sampson in there as proof of SJU's depth at big vs. other teams while ignoring similar guys on other teams that might be forced at times to play big out of position on other teams. 

Gumby

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #245 on: June 18, 2011, 05:39:26 PM »
And now back to Norvel!

Dave and Dan, why do you still have the rumor headline story on Norvel's eligibility on JJ?  I believe Norvel will be on campus very soon, so why is that negative stuff still out there?  Besides which, the original story said there would be updates.  Not to sound flip (or at least too flip), when will be the next update, when he graduates from St. John's or turns pro after this junior year.

I think we are past the point of this ugly rumors being so predominantly displayed on JJ.  Time to update, and hopefully, take it down.

I can see why SH and RU posters are spreading the ineligible rumors on our incoming class.  They get some of that stuff from our own website.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #246 on: June 19, 2011, 12:23:39 AM »
Because I don't believe that Norvel has DEFINITELY qualified yet.  I hope that's not the case though, but I think it still is.

Gumby

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #247 on: June 19, 2011, 05:01:12 PM »
Because I don't believe that Norvel has DEFINITELY qualified yet.  I hope that's not the case though, but I think it still is.

Dan,  so either confirm your rumor or take it off the site.  It has been three weeks. Your title states something about updates.  Where are the updates?  Bring it back once you have followed through.

Norvel's own recruiting history on JJ is a good enough place for eligibility rumors, not main headlines.

I have taught a good number of student-athletes (or is it athlete-students). Any student not making the grade would have been reported to his/her coach by now. 

So Norvel's status is known by Coach Lavin.  So get a scoop from Coach!

We know that Norvel is not going the prep route, so he is either qualified now, or needs a summer course, which is no big deal.  Coach should have that information.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #248 on: June 19, 2011, 06:07:28 PM »
And now back to Norvel!

Dave and Dan, why do you still have the rumor headline story on Norvel's eligibility on JJ?  I believe Norvel will be on campus very soon, so why is that negative stuff still out there?  Besides which, the original story said there would be updates.  Not to sound flip (or at least too flip), when will be the next update, when he graduates from St. John's or turns pro after this junior year.

I think we are past the point of this ugly rumors being so predominantly displayed on JJ.  Time to update, and hopefully, take it down.

I can see why SH and RU posters are spreading the ineligible rumors on our incoming class.  They get some of that stuff from our own website.


If you read the article it dispels the rumors with a quote from Norvel. There is nothing negative about it.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #249 on: June 19, 2011, 06:08:33 PM »
Because I don't believe that Norvel has DEFINITELY qualified yet.  I hope that's not the case though, but I think it still is.

Dan,  so either confirm your rumor or take it off the site.  It has been three weeks. Your title states something about updates.  Where are the updates?  Bring it back once you have followed through.

Norvel's own recruiting history on JJ is a good enough place for eligibility rumors, not main headlines.

I have taught a good number of student-athletes (or is it athlete-students). Any student not making the grade would have been reported to his/her coach by now. 

So Norvel's status is known by Coach Lavin.  So get a scoop from Coach!

We know that Norvel is not going the prep route, so he is either qualified now, or needs a summer course, which is no big deal.  Coach should have that information.

There is nothing to update on at this point in time. No news is good news.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Gumby

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #250 on: June 19, 2011, 10:50:49 PM »
Dave,

Please forgive this rather basic question, but should not our SID know the status of Norvel?  The dye has been cast, as the grades are in, school is out.  Why the mystery?

I do not think there is any privacy issues, as we are not asking for any one's grades.  Just who is academically eligible now and who may need some summer help.

Gumby

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #251 on: June 19, 2011, 10:58:56 PM »
And now back to Norvel!

Dave and Dan, why do you still have the rumor headline story on Norvel's eligibility on JJ?  I believe Norvel will be on campus very soon, so why is that negative stuff still out there?  Besides which, the original story said there would be updates.  Not to sound flip (or at least too flip), when will be the next update, when he graduates from St. John's or turns pro after this junior year.

I think we are past the point of this ugly rumors being so predominantly displayed on JJ.  Time to update, and hopefully, take it down.

I can see why SH and RU posters are spreading the ineligible rumors on our incoming class.  They get some of that stuff from our own website.


If you read the article it dispels the rumors with a quote from Norvel. There is nothing negative about it.

The title bothers me.  So perhaps change the title of the article to "Norvel Pelle squashes rumors of his being ineligible!"  Remember, folks tend to read just headlines and not the follow up stories.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #252 on: June 19, 2011, 11:11:51 PM »
Dave,

Please forgive this rather basic question, but should not our SID know the status of Norvel?  The dye has been cast, as the grades are in, school is out.  Why the mystery?

I do not think there is any privacy issues, as we are not asking for any one's grades.  Just who is academically eligible now and who may need some summer help.

There is a public statement in there from the SID in response to the rumors. The mystery is the NCAA clearinghouse. Some guys need classes, or scores on the boards, and it takes longer to clear them. I wouldn't worry about it.

As for the title. People tend to read articles due to titles in addition to finding them on google. Generally JohnnyJungle.com is #1 or close to #1 result that comes up.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

MCNPA

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #253 on: June 20, 2011, 04:16:03 PM »
I'll supplement Dave's info with the fact that SID's rarely give updates on the eligibility of these kids.  One statement already made expresses confidence that these kids are/will be eligible, sans curveballs from the NCAA clearinghouse.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #254 on: June 20, 2011, 05:28:52 PM »
It should be pointed out that according to Nieves (and I think I'd seen this independently), Polee and Pelle are good friends. For what it's worth.

Ok but where can Pelle go?  He signed an LOI. 
True. But he COULD, theoretically, go prep or JUCO (or transfer after a year). Can't force a kid to make it to school. Not at all saying that could happen.

Yeah but I just can't see him being upset over Polee leaving.  At least so much so that he doesn't qualify as a result.  I know you werent implying that.  But either he has the grades or he doesnt.  He claims he does.

I'm in the camp that believes Norvel's tweet but nowhere did Nieves say the prepping was due to grades.  That was an assumption made on this board only.
It's about academics. (as much as it's about anything)
FWIW, Nieves said the same thing two weeks ago. He's close with Etop and the Compton Magic (Pelle's AAU team) people. We'll see if he's right. Polee leaving may give Pelle the excuse to head to prep school.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #255 on: June 20, 2011, 09:30:19 PM »
It should be pointed out that according to Nieves (and I think I'd seen this independently), Polee and Pelle are good friends. For what it's worth.

Ok but where can Pelle go?  He signed an LOI. 
True. But he COULD, theoretically, go prep or JUCO (or transfer after a year). Can't force a kid to make it to school. Not at all saying that could happen.

Yeah but I just can't see him being upset over Polee leaving.  At least so much so that he doesn't qualify as a result.  I know you werent implying that.  But either he has the grades or he doesnt.  He claims he does.

I'm in the camp that believes Norvel's tweet but nowhere did Nieves say the prepping was due to grades.  That was an assumption made on this board only.
It's about academics. (as much as it's about anything)
FWIW, Nieves said the same thing two weeks ago. He's close with Etop and the Compton Magic (Pelle's AAU team) people. We'll see if he's right. Polee leaving may give Pelle the excuse to head to prep school.

It's complicated. Everything should work out as both sides are doing everything possible.
Follow Johnny Jungle on Twitter at @Johnny_Jungle

Moose

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Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #256 on: June 20, 2011, 09:50:23 PM »
It should be pointed out that according to Nieves (and I think I'd seen this independently), Polee and Pelle are good friends. For what it's worth.

Ok but where can Pelle go?  He signed an LOI. 
True. But he COULD, theoretically, go prep or JUCO (or transfer after a year). Can't force a kid to make it to school. Not at all saying that could happen.

Yeah but I just can't see him being upset over Polee leaving.  At least so much so that he doesn't qualify as a result.  I know you werent implying that.  But either he has the grades or he doesnt.  He claims he does.

I'm in the camp that believes Norvel's tweet but nowhere did Nieves say the prepping was due to grades.  That was an assumption made on this board only.
It's about academics. (as much as it's about anything)
FWIW, Nieves said the same thing two weeks ago. He's close with Etop and the Compton Magic (Pelle's AAU team) people. We'll see if he's right. Polee leaving may give Pelle the excuse to head to prep school.

It's complicated. Everything should work out as both sides are doing everything possible.

Well that sure doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.
Remember who broke the Slice news

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #257 on: June 20, 2011, 09:57:04 PM »
It should be pointed out that according to Nieves (and I think I'd seen this independently), Polee and Pelle are good friends. For what it's worth.

Ok but where can Pelle go?  He signed an LOI. 
True. But he COULD, theoretically, go prep or JUCO (or transfer after a year). Can't force a kid to make it to school. Not at all saying that could happen.

Yeah but I just can't see him being upset over Polee leaving.  At least so much so that he doesn't qualify as a result.  I know you werent implying that.  But either he has the grades or he doesnt.  He claims he does.

I'm in the camp that believes Norvel's tweet but nowhere did Nieves say the prepping was due to grades.  That was an assumption made on this board only.
It's about academics. (as much as it's about anything)
FWIW, Nieves said the same thing two weeks ago. He's close with Etop and the Compton Magic (Pelle's AAU team) people. We'll see if he's right. Polee leaving may give Pelle the excuse to head to prep school.

It's complicated. Everything should work out as both sides are doing everything possible.

Well that sure doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

Maybe this is why they want Gathers on campus now?

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #258 on: June 20, 2011, 10:07:51 PM »
Well that sure doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies.

Maybe this is why they want Gathers on campus now?

Ditto, Moose.   I was thinking the same thing, Baldi.

Re: Norvel Pelle - C - Price High School - Long Beach, CA - ST. JOHN'S
« Reply #259 on: June 20, 2011, 11:38:18 PM »
This doesn't sound very good at all.