Villanova - Game Thread

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 23, 2012, 08:06:36 AM

@Dave(too much to quote on phone)

The staff needs to do better character checks on these recruits. If Polee is a lazy headcase and his father is overbearing, the staff should have known this beforehand. Or maybe they did and just took a chance, which backfired and there are consequences. If guys on a message board can figure out  Pelle is a misguided individual, why can't the staff see that? Again, maybe they did and took a chance which didn't work out. Right now we need players, not Freud patients. IMO nows not the time to take chances,Been there done that. We have a good core 6 who are playing a ton of minutes and experience, time to build around them and keep the here. Guys like Goodman and Iverson, are we recruiting them? If so, why? Just my opinion

Baldi we got to go to a game together this year. Tickets are on me.

Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer?
We always knew Dave had a Baldi crush but to go this public only confirms it! LMAO!

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 06:04:57 PM

Please enlighten on how GG has regressed. I'd love to hear your analysis.

Perhaps you didn't see this question, IllWill. I don't want anyone to be mislead thinking you were ducking it.

I already answered it...he had one rebound against villanova. 

To further expand, There is no improvement on his ball-handeling or post moves.  If he's not progressing and staying the same, I consider that regressing.  He virtually disappears every other game.  Again, you can say he was doing that at the beginning of the year too, but again if you're not progressing in my mind you're regressing. 

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 22, 2012, 11:44:41 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 11:29:53 PM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 22, 2012, 09:03:16 PM

Staff sent them to Rise,staff asked Omari to leave along with Stith. Staff couldn't convince Polee or his father to stay. Staff chose not to pursue Ron Roberts. So whose fault is it that there were 9 scholarships available?

To be fair if you want to condem this staff then what did you think about Derwin Kitchen and Rob Thomas for Norm Robert's first class? Both deemed inelegible out of a 5 man class. Not to mention Q Calhoun transferred too. The %'s of inelegible's and transfers were greater than this year's class.

Fair is fair but I don't remember you being up in arms then.

Since Lavins been here the staff lost Omari,Roberts,Quincy,Polee,Sampson,Pelle,Nuri,JevonThomas and now Wood. I think he gets Gathers back but that might be just some Baldi "nonsense"

If you want to talk about guys Lavin lost then look at LeBryan Nash, Katin Reinhardt, & Kyle Anderson. If you want to talk about guys Norm Roberts' lost we could be here for a while. Like I said be fair. You're harping on issues you never touched with Norm Roberts so why are you now?

I think you're better than this Dave.  Saying he didn't chime in when this happened to Norm is really missing the point.  That's like complaining about the sound system in a mercedes and then the salesman saying, "you never complained about the sound system in the honda."  That's because there are different expectations, just as there are different expectations with Lavin compared to Norm.

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 23, 2012, 10:43:10 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 10:31:26 AM

Quote from: Marco Baldi on January 23, 2012, 09:57:00 AM

Oh for sure if the roster wasn't so depleted, you can take chances when you have a solid crew. Than I'd have to find something else to bitch about. I think Lavin stepped into a great situation, I just hate the ineligible crap.

Arguably he walked into a very poor situation in terms of recruiting.

Could be looked at both ways. Some coaches like their own guys.

He could have had 0 scholys  and have to ask 7 guys to leave

Having 1 scholarship player returning in your 2nd year of coaching? C'mon thats a daunting task.

It's a daunting task but many people here paint Lavin as the second coming so if we're going to sling praises left and right and kiss his feet he deserves some ridicule for the recruiting job he's done.  Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

Quote from: desco80 on January 23, 2012, 11:58:12 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 11:22:36 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 23, 2012, 11:00:29 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:10:14 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 23, 2012, 12:56:25 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 12:43:10 AM

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 23, 2012, 12:36:32 AM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 01:10:48 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 22, 2012, 12:00:47 PM

My main issue is I don't see this team winning more than two games the rest of the way, and I couldn't even tell you which two games we will win.  I seriously think we have a legit chance to not win a single game teh rest of the way.  And how will/would that affect the team moving forward?  Will kids transfer? Will recruits shy away? 

So you can't say which games they'll be but you boldly make a prediction? C'mon this is why you get killed by people as being negative. If actually added some substance to your statement then people might take your opinion as valid, might not agree with it, but they could at least understand your logic.

I'd set the bar at a realistic 5 for the under/over with 12 games remaining. Duke and Syracuse are the only guaranteed losses in my opinion while the other games are all winnable.

Duke is obviously better than us, but with that said they arent a terrible match up for us either. I Dont think they will beat us that badly

St. John's defense forces teams to shoot and that's Duke's bread and butter shoot 20 three's a game. Duke is deep and Plumlees will be relentless on the glass. I can't see how you feel that's favorable at all.

They play man to man defense, and their big's are not that great. Personally I think the Plumlees are really overrated and that Mason is the only one that is any good at all.

We don't have many favorable match ups for us remaining this year. I'm just saying out of all of them, duke isn't the worst. Syracuse is the worst match up for us IMO.

Cuse is 1, Duke is 2, and they are both miles apart from the rest of schedule. It's a tough game and calling the Plumlees overrated is silly.

Mason has 8 double doubles on the year and is extremely efficient on offense while producing. Miles is clearly a role player for Duke but thrives in his role. Averages 6rpg in 18 min a game and to put that in perspective Moe Harkless averages 8rpg in 35min. He also shoots 70% from the floor while Mason shoots over 60%. They are both 6'10.

Moe harkless is also a 6'8 small forward playing out of position. Agree do disagree here but I think he is overrated

I would have said GG but his rebounding totals aren't even as good as Harkless. What makes you say they are overrated?

They score at efficient rates, rebound at high rates, don't foul, don't turnover the ball, and strong bodied. They aren't focal point of Duke's team or hyped to be either.

I gotta agree with Dave on this one.  Duke is a terrible match up for us this year.  And it's not just the Plumlees you have to worry about, they also play 6-11 Ryan Kelly, who can shoot from the outside.   Too much size, too good a shooting team, and Duke is too fundamentally sound to turn the ball over or miss foul shots that can keep us hanging around.

It will be a tougher game for us than Kentucky IMHO

I definitely think Kentucky was a worse match up for us. They were way to athletic for our guards, and had a 6'11 freak to defend the hoop in case they missed on their gambling attempts. Well be able to score more easily against duke IMO.

I think the plumlees are overrated in the sense that their not as good as they were and are advertised to be. Every time I watch duke play I see Miles get called for a travel, and I don't think hes particularly smart as a player. As for Ryan Kelly I think he is their best big man.

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach stricken wit cancer that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach that's stricken wit cancer, forced into bed rest after massive surgery that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach that's stricken wit cancer, forced into bed rest after massive surgery and its out recruiting all over the country still working to replace a whole team?

I have.

And his name is Steve Lavin.

I am not sure about the loyalty of a few of the posters here because I have no idea if they are actually alums or some guys who adopted St. John's as their basketball team. 

Many of OUR most loyal fans are not actually alums but are just "some guys who adopted St. John's as their basketball team",  including yours truly.  I resemble this remark.

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach stricken wit cancer that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach that's stricken wit cancer, forced into bed rest after massive surgery that's gotta replace a whole team?

You ever see a coach that's stricken wit cancer, forced into bed rest after massive surgery and its out recruiting all over the country still working to replace a whole team?

I have.

And his name is Steve Lavin.

Tell it like it is Choz.  Tell it like it is.

If ever a coach deserves leniance from the fanbase...it's this one.  He's sick and doing his best, plus guided us to our best season in 10 years and just recruited not one but two all BE freshman team members.  He ain't captain of the Costa Concordia.

Anybody criticizing this coach is ... well just plain stupid.

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 11:34:25 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 06:04:57 PM

Please enlighten on how GG has regressed. I'd love to hear your analysis.

Perhaps you didn't see this question, IllWill. I don't want anyone to be mislead thinking you were ducking it.

I already answered it...he had one rebound against villanova. 

To further expand, There is no improvement on his ball-handeling or post moves.  If he's not progressing and staying the same, I consider that regressing.  He virtually disappears every other game.  Again, you can say he was doing that at the beginning of the year too, but again if you're not progressing in my mind you're regressing. 

So you're saying because he had a poor output in rebounding in 1 game this season therefore he's regressed? Clearly looking at 1 out of 19 games is an accurate measurement of one's overall worth.

Kobe Bryant had a poor shooting game this weekend. Has he regressed?

He's shot 50% or better in half of Big East games this season. He's shown expanded range on his shooting, he shoots over 70% from the FT line, and if you want to have a knock on him then sure he could value the basketball better. He has too many turnovers for a player with the amount of touches he gets per game.

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

You ever see a coach stricken wit cancer that's gotta replace a whole team?

Don't see what the cancer has to do with his recruiting.  He was able to get players, just not ones that were all eligible.  Clearly the cancer didn't affect his recruiting. 

You ever see a coach that's stricken wit cancer, forced into bed rest after massive surgery that's gotta replace a whole team?

See above...you're starting to reach. 

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:15:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 11:34:25 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 06:04:57 PM

Please enlighten on how GG has regressed. I'd love to hear your analysis.

Perhaps you didn't see this question, IllWill. I don't want anyone to be mislead thinking you were ducking it.

I already answered it...he had one rebound against villanova. 

To further expand, There is no improvement on his ball-handeling or post moves.  If he's not progressing and staying the same, I consider that regressing.  He virtually disappears every other game.  Again, you can say he was doing that at the beginning of the year too, but again if you're not progressing in my mind you're regressing. 

So you're saying because he had a poor output in rebounding in 1 game this season therefore he's regressed? Clearly looking at 1 out of 19 games is an accurate measurement of one's overall worth.

Kobe Bryant had a poor shooting game this weekend. Has he regressed?

He's shot 50% or better in half of Big East games this season. He's shown expanded range on his shooting, he shoots over 70% from the FT line, and if you want to have a knock on him then sure he could value the basketball better. He has too many turnovers for a player with the amount of touches he gets per game.

The villanova game served as a microcosm for his season.  He just disappears...

I think he's serviceable, but are you really happy with where he's at right now? 

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Anybody criticizing this coach is ... well just plain stupid.

Yeah, you're right.  this coaching staff has come up all roses.  We have 6 scholarship players (stith shouldn't count.)   They've all done the best job they could....excuse me for over-reacting.


 

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Well, I don't get paid to recruit so I can sit back and critique. 

What should Lavin do?  Keep getting healthy.  We need him back.

I just hope that our dysmal record this season doesn't hurt our future via transfers and missing out on key recruits.

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:37:39 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:15:35 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 11:34:25 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 22, 2012, 06:04:57 PM

Please enlighten on how GG has regressed. I'd love to hear your analysis.

Perhaps you didn't see this question, IllWill. I don't want anyone to be mislead thinking you were ducking it.

I already answered it...he had one rebound against villanova. 

To further expand, There is no improvement on his ball-handeling or post moves.  If he's not progressing and staying the same, I consider that regressing.  He virtually disappears every other game.  Again, you can say he was doing that at the beginning of the year too, but again if you're not progressing in my mind you're regressing. 

So you're saying because he had a poor output in rebounding in 1 game this season therefore he's regressed? Clearly looking at 1 out of 19 games is an accurate measurement of one's overall worth.

Kobe Bryant had a poor shooting game this weekend. Has he regressed?

He's shot 50% or better in half of Big East games this season. He's shown expanded range on his shooting, he shoots over 70% from the FT line, and if you want to have a knock on him then sure he could value the basketball better. He has too many turnovers for a player with the amount of touches he gets per game.

The villanova game served as a microcosm for his season.  He just disappears...

I think he's serviceable, but are you really happy with where he's at right now? 

Considering GG was supposed to be no more than just a capable Big East body he's certainly been a pleasant surprise in my eyes.

-He hasn't fouled out once this year and he's very disciplined on defense. He must take 1 or 2 charges every game.

-He runs the floor rim to rim just as good if not better than any big in the country.

-He establishes post position very well.

-His footwork is improving. He opens to face up extremely well after he receives the ball. He has a pretty good first step and his jab step is good too. He gets a few guys to bite on his pumps and sometimes he drills J's in their face. He plays with confidence.

-He knocks down free throws at a high rate especially for a big.

-I think he can be tougher at times but without a capable backup its hard to play over agressive because of fouls.

-He can value the basketball better. He makes errant passes and bounces the ball off his foot sometimes. Its bound to happen but needs to focus to make it happen less often.

-One flaw defensively is he loses track of weak side defense in the zone. He's looking to help so often he forgets their is a guy behind him. Leads to a lot of alley-oop opportunities.

I've come to these conclusions watching him over 18 games (I didn't see the nova game).

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:49:15 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Well, I don't get paid to recruit so I can sit back and critique. 

What should Lavin do?  Keep getting healthy.  We need him back.

I just hope that our dysmal record this season doesn't hurt our future via transfers and missing out on key recruits.

See it doesn't work like that here.

You can't point out problems exclusively without offering solutions.

We're all here to discuss, debate, and analyze. Not complain and rant. If you want to do that than I'd be more than happy to give you information on how to start your own website.

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:49:15 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Well, I don't get paid to recruit so I can sit back and critique. 

What should Lavin do?  Keep getting healthy.  We need him back.

I just hope that our dysmal record this season doesn't hurt our future via transfers and missing out on key recruits.

there are 4 components to the questions about the program: lavin's return date, recruits coming in, current players leaving, performance this season.

using what most would consider conservative estimates for each component, does the below scenario change your perception?

1.  lavin sits out this season entirely, returns to the bench day 1 of the 2012-13 season

2.  lavin secures 2 of the following recruits for 2012: Gathers, Obekpa, Sampson, Sanchez, Shepard

3.  no current players leave.  next years 10 man rotation = harkless gg harrison pointer garrett branch greene stith +2 of the above.  that's either 6 top 100s/2 juco AAs or 7 top 100s/1 juco AA

4.  11 wins total this year. no post-season tournament

the likelihood of this combination, or some better combination, is definitely probable based on all known information. 

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:51:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:49:15 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Well, I don't get paid to recruit so I can sit back and critique. 

What should Lavin do?  Keep getting healthy.  We need him back.

I just hope that our dysmal record this season doesn't hurt our future via transfers and missing out on key recruits.

See it doesn't work like that here.

You can't point out problems exclusively without offering solutions.

We're all here to discuss, debate, and analyze. Not complain and rant. If you want to do that than I'd be more than happy to give you information on how to start your own website.

Are you really this dense?  The obvious solution is we need more bodies...we need another big...we need two outside shooters. 

My issues with Lavin and the staff mainly revolve around only having 6 capable bodies right now.  And there's nothing we can do about that right now.  No answers, no solutions for this season. 

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 02:08:08 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:51:55 PM

Quote from: Dave on January 23, 2012, 01:49:15 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 01:46:06 PM

Quote from: Choz4Life on January 23, 2012, 12:56:24 PM

Quote from: IllWill on January 23, 2012, 12:23:00 PM

Don't have time to do the exact math, but I think we have had more recruits ineligible, decommit and/or transfer than current scholarship players on the roster.  Do you not see something wrong with that?

You ever see a coach that's gotta replace a whole team?

Lavin took chances he shouldn't have took. 

Your hindsight seems to be 20/20. How about your foresight? What should he do?

Well, I don't get paid to recruit so I can sit back and critique. 

What should Lavin do?  Keep getting healthy.  We need him back.

I just hope that our dysmal record this season doesn't hurt our future via transfers and missing out on key recruits.

See it doesn't work like that here.

You can't point out problems exclusively without offering solutions.

We're all here to discuss, debate, and analyze. Not complain and rant. If you want to do that than I'd be more than happy to give you information on how to start your own website.

Are you really this dense?  The obvious solution is we need more bodies...we need another big...we need two outside shooters. 

My issues with Lavin and the staff mainly revolve around only having 6 capable bodies right now.  And there's nothing we can do about that right now.  No answers, no solutions for this season. 

Finally you made an actual point with specific details. Thank you.