Moe and the 2012 Draft

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:15:25 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 10, 2012, 09:09:57 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:05:48 PM

It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.

 $$$

That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.

 How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did?  How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward?  Apples to oranges.

What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.

Quote from: boo3 on March 10, 2012, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:15:25 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 10, 2012, 09:09:57 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:05:48 PM

It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.

 $$$

That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.

 How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did?  How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward?  Apples to oranges.

What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.

  It's been a decade since someone left early.  Guess what, this is what real programs have to deal with.  Lavin will deal with it and the sun will rise again. Lets not act like this is the end of the world.  It sucks, but this is reality.

Moe and Nate have said they are rumors and that a decision hasn't been made yet and you guys are talking about him like he's out the door already. I'll take Moe's word over Lenn or anyone else any day of the week.

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:28:30 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 10, 2012, 09:17:52 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:15:25 PM

Quote from: boo3 on March 10, 2012, 09:09:57 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 09:05:48 PM

It's sad that Harkless would rather sit on an NBA bench, or duke it out in the NBDL than go to college for than one year.

 $$$

That's why Cook left. And Cook was better.

 How much you wanna bet Moe gets drafted higher than Cook did?  How can you compare a 5'10" PG with no outside shot to a 6'8" small forward?  Apples to oranges.

What I am really comparing is what they do have in common. They want to leave this school and this program immediately. That's an ugly concept, but sadly true. Harkless isn't any more ready for the NBA than Cook was. As a program we wasted this season. It's hard to swallow.

  It's been a decade since someone left early.  Guess what, this is what real programs have to deal with.  Lavin will deal with it and the sun will rise again. Lets not act like this is the end of the world.  It sucks, but this is reality.

Real programs lose players to the league but we would be losing a player from a 13-19 team. That would be a lost season, and a lost player.

To put things in perspective Kawhi Leonard was picked 15th last year.  Here is his contract.

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/san-antonio-spurs/kawhi-leonard/

How do you like Jim Boeheim now?

"He needs to stay in school and get better,’’ Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim told The Post’s Steve Serby. “The [NBA] Developmental League is littered with guys 6-7 or 6-8. You’ve got to really be good. He’s a really talented player, but he needs another year.’’

A former SJ star player told me the EXACT same thing two weeks ago. And he wasn't nearly as nice about it.

This would be very rash, he needs another season.

This would be very rash, he needs another season.

I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.

Quote from: Dan on March 10, 2012, 10:07:31 PM

This would be very rash, he needs another season.

I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.

A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA.  Kind of blows up that logic.

Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 10:12:37 PM

Quote from: Dan on March 10, 2012, 10:07:31 PM

This would be very rash, he needs another season.

I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there
 should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.

A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA.  Kind of blows up that logic.

I'm not saying its cut and dry, but I think it's presumptuous for any of us to say that if he stays one more year, and then leaves he'd be a guaranteed lottery pick. Maybe he needs more than two years? Is it possible that players can come out of nowhere? Sure. If you're Moe Harkless, and you have your head on straight, and it feels like he does, why would you risk
your career?

Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.

Possible? Certainly. Likely?

Quote from: Moose on March 10, 2012, 10:14:54 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 10:12:37 PM

Quote from: Dan on March 10, 2012, 10:07:31 PM

This would be very rash, he needs another season.

I don't know how anyone could say that after another season he'd be ready. You have win at the college level before there
 should be any reason to believe that you're ready for the next level. I'm not saying it's never happened, but I don't recall any player coming out after a 13 win season and making it anywhere.

A lot of players never played at college and made it in the NBA.  Kind of blows up that logic.

I'm not saying its cut and dry, but I think it's presumptuous for any of us to say that if he stays one more year, and then leaves he'd be a guaranteed lottery pick. Maybe he needs more than two years? Is it possible that players can come out of nowhere? Sure. If you're Moe Harkless, and you have your head on straight, and it feels like he does, why would you risk
your career?

I have no problem with his decision.  He is not transferring to Rider or quitting the team midseason to go play for Coach Casey at CW Post.  He's going to the NBA.  He will get picked in Rd 1 and he won't be Omar Cook.  He opened the gates for our recruiting and city kids look up to him.  That can go a long way in a kid maybe sticking around NYC as opposed to leaving down the road.

Quote from: red_light2 on March 10, 2012, 10:17:54 PM

Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.

Possible? Certainly. Likely?

$17 million later.

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 10:22:00 PM

Quote from: red_light2 on March 10, 2012, 10:17:54 PM

Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.

Possible? Certainly. Likely?

$17 million later.

It does happen. It does not happen often. For every Kris Humphries, there are 25 guys every year who think they're great and wind up in Asia or who knows where. Jeremi Richmond. Remember him? Will anyone?

Quote from: Moose on March 10, 2012, 10:28:41 PM

Quote from: Poison on March 10, 2012, 10:22:00 PM

Quote from: red_light2 on March 10, 2012, 10:17:54 PM

Kris Humphries left Minnesota (12-18 record) after one year and has had a nice NBA career.

Possible? Certainly. Likely?

$17 million later.

It does happen. It does not happen often. For every Kris Humphries, there are 25 guys every year who think they're great and wind up in Asia or who knows where. Jeremi Richmond. Remember him? Will anyone?

All true.  He will get picked in the 1st round.  That gets your foot in the door.  Then it depends where you end up, who is ahead of you on the depth chart, who you teammates are and who is coaching you.  Can go MANY directions from there.

Moe and Nate have said they are rumors and that a decision hasn't been made yet and you guys are talking about him like he's out the door already. I'll take Moe's word over Lenn or anyone else any day of the week.

So will I damn have you ever seen a panic like this?

Quote from: Marillac on March 10, 2012, 12:06:30 AM

Moe is coming back.  It just doesn't make sense to leave.  You don't develop at the end of the bench on an NBA team, and that is where he'll be for two years with his frame and shooting ability.  He might slip into the second round with all of the NBA ready upperclassmen and the incredible amount of young, lengthy talent this year.

I think Lav is just being a master recruiter.  Honestly, this is win-win from a recruit's standpoint:  Lavin produces yet another NBA player or more minutes to be had

I want Moe back too.  But I don't think that's true at all.   Think about it:  are you going to improve more when you have to split time between classes and basketball or when you work on your game and body 8 hours a day?     When you have access to coaches 24/7 all year round, or when the NCAA limits you to 2hrs of practice a day from November till March and prevents you from practicing with coaches all summer?
We rightfully brag that 3 of our coaches have NBA experience; guess what... every coach on an NBA staff has NBA experience.
At the end of the day it's the equivalent of working at basketball full-time versus part-time.  To me there's no question you improve more as a player in the NBA, whether you're starting or not.
Would this even be a question in other sports?   Nobody doubts that prospects improve more with the Yankees pitching coaches in the minor leagues, or the Giants O-line staff, then they would've with their colleges.   The nba is no different.  Part-time athletics v. full-time.

Now there's still a huge difference in guaranteed money between the bottom of the 1st round and the lottery.  So for that reason I think it makes sense for Moe to return, unless he knows he'll be drafted 15 or above.

Preach on only a fan can't see that. The less you play in college the better the NBA player IMO. Tyreke Evans high school coach said Evans became a worst shooter from playing under Calipari.Darius Rice said the longer you stay in college the more scouts over analyze and he should of left as a Frosh.Torin Francis of ND said the same.Darius Washington of Memphis said he should of never went to college he should of went straight to the NBA like Telfair.  Kyrie played 11 games at Duke and is the top NBA rookie. KD is the youngest scoring champ of all time 1 year of college , Rose the youngest MVP of all time 1 year of college. I just don't see the proof college makes you a better basketball. If that was the case more 3 or 4 year players would be dominating the league but I just don't see them on all star rosters.

From Nate Blue's twitter

"The fact that lenn robbins can just run without us making a decision makes me wonder about dealing with him in the future or next season."