Georgetown Game

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #180 on: January 12, 2013, 01:37:13 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.



[/quote

You are in denial.  Even Elmore just said that there is not any ball movement on St. johns. There are shooters, they just have to be put in a position to shoot.  Offensive sets, what offensive sets?  It's all one on one and create.

St. John's is statistically the worst shooting team in the conference. So no, the team doesn't have shooters.





I disagree.  If there was some semblence of an offense we would get better looks and more shots would be made.  Why do teams with far less talent shoot better than us, ask yourself that.  It's about the offensive sets.

You are clueless. Teams with far less talent?!?!?!? Do you see what we are shooting from the line? from the floor? The players' are getting good looks, Coach can't force players' to take and/or make shots.


 And you are in denial.  How many top 100 players did the mid major teams that we played who shot better then us have? Oh wait, all those kids that the staff wouldn't even look at shoot better then our players.  If you put our kids with a coach who had a legit offense, you bet your arse we would have better shooters.  And if this team as you say has no shooters, that is either The staffs fault for not bringing in shooters or the staffs fault for not developing shooters.  And foul shooting is directly on the staff.

Hahahaha....what legit offense is that? Name me an offense that the coach should be running? Unless there is an offense that removes the defensive players out of the paint and allows our players to get layups, not sure an offense exists. This is a process, our team is clearly flawed. But we have the foundation for success, we just need a couple more pieces.

If you watch many other teams you will notice better ball movement, pick and rolls, at least attempted back door plays etc.  perhaps a double screen to get open a shooter and far better passing, not all by a PG.  good teams will run a break sending a player to the wing to shoot a three.  We have D Lo who has been tabbed as one of the better shooters in the country.  Look, I want us to succeed as much as anyone but there are some serious issues which are not all related to our present line up.  It upsets me when everyone gets on Phil Green for his poor PG play when it's the staffs fault for putting him in that position.

In terms of your more pieces comment, didn't Lavin just state it doesn't matter if we sign anyone in the 2013 class.  I guess he has more faith in our current group of shooters then you guys do. ;)

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #181 on: January 12, 2013, 01:38:34 PM »
Bottom line their is a lot of imbalance on this team :-\
Non cohesive Offense, Horrid FT Shooting, Questionable Sub patterns, No Bench, No Top recruits on deck, 1 red shirt Senior?, 1 Orlando S.
Equals another Trip to the CIB BAY BEE!
 :'(
and Oh yeah no PG after 3 seasons of this regime.
 :buck2:

MCNPA

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #182 on: January 12, 2013, 01:48:33 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better. 

boo3

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #183 on: January 12, 2013, 01:55:15 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better.

 Don't let facts get in the way of a great Titanic story...
 
 Lets just blow the whole thing up again? Shit,  Greenberg is available, so is Matt Doherty...  We are...

SJUFAN

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #184 on: January 12, 2013, 02:06:58 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.



[/quote

You are in denial.  Even Elmore just said that there is not any ball movement on St. johns. There are shooters, they just have to be put in a position to shoot.  Offensive sets, what offensive sets?  It's all one on one and create.

St. John's is statistically the worst shooting team in the conference. So no, the team doesn't have shooters.





I disagree.  If there was some semblence of an offense we would get better looks and more shots would be made.  Why do teams with far less talent shoot better than us, ask yourself that.  It's about the offensive sets.

You are clueless. Teams with far less talent?!?!?!? Do you see what we are shooting from the line? from the floor? The players' are getting good looks, Coach can't force players' to take and/or make shots.


 And you are in denial.  How many top 100 players did the mid major teams that we played who shot better then us have? Oh wait, all those kids that the staff wouldn't even look at shoot better then our players.  If you put our kids with a coach who had a legit offense, you bet your arse we would have better shooters.  And if this team as you say has no shooters, that is either The staffs fault for not bringing in shooters or the staffs fault for not developing shooters.  And foul shooting is directly on the staff.

Hahahaha....what legit offense is that? Name me an offense that the coach should be running? Unless there is an offense that removes the defensive players out of the paint and allows our players to get layups, not sure an offense exists. This is a process, our team is clearly flawed. But we have the foundation for success, we just need a couple more pieces.

If you watch many other teams you will notice better ball movement, pick and rolls, at least attempted back door plays etc.  perhaps a double screen to get open a shooter and far better passing, not all by a PG.  good teams will run a break sending a player to the wing to shoot a three.  We have D Lo who has been tabbed as one of the better shooters in the country.  Look, I want us to succeed as much as anyone but there are some serious issues which are not all related to our present line up.  It upsets me when everyone gets on Phil Green for his poor PG play when it's the staffs fault for putting him in that position.

In terms of your more pieces comment, didn't Lavin just state it doesn't matter if we sign anyone in the 2013 class.  I guess he has more faith in our current group of shooters then you guys do. ;)

I see pleanty of movement. But basically ur saying Coach should send Amir, Dom, or Sampson to the wing on a break to shoot a three because that's what good teams do.

tnice

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2013, 02:08:03 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.

  My perspective as well, MCNPA. 

     If you actually watch the game, instead of trying to prove your crazy theories correct, you will actually see that.  Gtwn is playing good D, a zone defense. We can't shoot at all.  Therefore we are down big. We can get back in the game, but only if we shoot 60%+ in the second half.  If you shoot 20% you will lose every single time.

With all due respect, you guys are just lost. First off Boo, G'town played man for 90% of the game, not zone, so dont go lecturing people about actually watching the game. Second, it has everything to do with the offensive sets, or lack thereof. MCNPA, you want to have them run any offense in the country? Please do, because as I have stated over and over THEY ARENT RUNNING AN OFFENSE AT ALL.

Whenever Gtown played man today, we set a high screen on the ball and then....NOTHING. If it was Harrison with the ball, they doubled him. If it was anyone else, they either switched or fought through the screen and then...NOTHING. No movement away from the ball. No cutter. No roll by the screener. NOTHING. Just schoolyard ball until the shot clock runs down and a poor, highly contested shot. I've never seen anything like it in my life. What made it even worse is that we played a team who is doing exactly what we should be doing...running an offense which is tailor made for an athletic team which doesnt shoot the three that well. Spread the other team out and use your superior athleticism to create easy TWO's and lets the threes come when they may. G'town must've gotten 12 shots today off naked back cuts- no screen, just a back cut- just because the cutter executed and the passer was actually looking for him. Guys like Amir, Dom, Balamou, even Karr would thrive in an offense like that and DLo would still get his shots in the flow without having to force everything. They way you shoot 45%+ is to get a certain number of easy buckets whether its in transition (ideally) or out of your offense. When every freakin shot you take is contested, of course you're going to shoot in the 30%.

I'm sorry, this is on the staff. Not at the tactical level, but on the strategic, philosophical level. You want to recruit a bunch of rangy,slashing wing players, then run an offense where they can slash, not stand around watching the two man game at the top of the key. If the players are being asked to do something which doesnt match their skill set and they dont do it well, its not their faults, its the staff's fault.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2013, 02:09:24 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better.

Agree, he was a good partof what little positive there was.  Am a bit concerned about Lavins comment about not being concerned if no one from the 2013 class signs. I guess he believes that all the teams defiencies can be addressed from within as in " who needs more shooters anyway", unless there is a Juco player or two in hiding somewhere?  Me never knows.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #187 on: January 12, 2013, 02:13:29 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.

  My perspective as well, MCNPA. 

     If you actually watch the game, instead of trying to prove your crazy theories correct, you will actually see that.  Gtwn is playing good D, a zone defense. We can't shoot at all.  Therefore we are down big. We can get back in the game, but only if we shoot 60%+ in the second half.  If you shoot 20% you will lose every single time.

With all due respect, you guys are just lost. First off Boo, G'town played man for 90% of the game, not zone, so dont go lecturing people about actually watching the game. Second, it has everything to do with the offensive sets, or lack thereof. MCNPA, you want to have them run any offense in the country? Please do, because as I have stated over and over THEY ARENT RUNNING AN OFFENSE AT ALL.

Whenever Gtown played man today, we set a high screen on the ball and then....NOTHING. If it was Harrison with the ball, they doubled him. If it was anyone else, they either switched or fought through the screen and then...NOTHING. No movement away from the ball. No cutter. No roll by the screener. NOTHING. Just schoolyard ball until the shot clock runs down and a poor, highly contested shot. I've never seen anything like it in my life. What made it even worse is that we played a team who is doing exactly what we should be doing...running an offense which is tailor made for an athletic team which doesnt shoot the three that well. Spread the other team out and use your superior athleticism to create easy TWO's and lets the threes come when they may. G'town must've gotten 12 shots today off naked back cuts- no screen, just a back cut- just because the cutter executed and the passer was actually looking for him. Guys like Amir, Dom, Balamou, even Karr would thrive in an offense like that and DLo would still get his shots in the flow without having to force everything. They way you shoot 45%+ is to get a certain number of easy buckets whether its in transition (ideally) or out of your offense. When every freakin shot you take is contested, of course you're going to shoot in the 30%.

I'm sorry, this is on the staff. Not at the tactical level, but on the strategic, philosophical level. You want to recruit a bunch of rangy,slashing wing players, then run an offense where they can slash, not stand around watching the two man game at the top of the key. If the players are being asked to do something which doesnt match their skill set and they dont do it well, its not their faults, its the staff's fault.


+1,000,000.   Finally a post that makes sense.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #188 on: January 12, 2013, 02:16:35 PM »
The women's game is enjoyable

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #189 on: January 12, 2013, 02:23:12 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better.
What about Good old Dwayne Polee jr? :2funny:
and..... I said it before I'll say it again! :crazy2:
Branch at best is a back up or we wouldnt be recruiting a PG out of Vaux HS(in Philly), Branch was already on the team. :uglystupid2:

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #190 on: January 12, 2013, 02:27:39 PM »
The women's game is enjoyable

Not realy.  ;D

desco80

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #191 on: January 12, 2013, 02:37:38 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better.
What about Good old Dwayne Polee jr? :2funny:
and..... I said it before I'll say it again! :crazy2:
Branch at best is a back up or we wouldnt be recruiting a PG out of Vaux HS(in Philly), Branch was already on the team. :uglystupid2:

we can't have more than 1 pg?   
Branch will be a junior next year... there's two years between them, that's perfect.   
If branch was at best a backup we would be recruiting more than one pg!  Jordan is seen as a bonus precisely bc they feel safe with Branch. 

boo3

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #192 on: January 12, 2013, 02:38:45 PM »
 They played 3-2 zone in the first half when they built a 20 point lead, for a good portion.  What happened in the other 20 minutes doesn't matter, the game was over.   I must be blind, because thats what I saw.

SJUFAN

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #193 on: January 12, 2013, 02:39:09 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.

  My perspective as well, MCNPA. 

     If you actually watch the game, instead of trying to prove your crazy theories correct, you will actually see that.  Gtwn is playing good D, a zone defense. We can't shoot at all.  Therefore we are down big. We can get back in the game, but only if we shoot 60%+ in the second half.  If you shoot 20% you will lose every single time.

With all due respect, you guys are just lost. First off Boo, G'town played man for 90% of the game, not zone, so dont go lecturing people about actually watching the game. Second, it has everything to do with the offensive sets, or lack thereof. MCNPA, you want to have them run any offense in the country? Please do, because as I have stated over and over THEY ARENT RUNNING AN OFFENSE AT ALL.

Whenever Gtown played man today, we set a high screen on the ball and then....NOTHING. If it was Harrison with the ball, they doubled him. If it was anyone else, they either switched or fought through the screen and then...NOTHING. No movement away from the ball. No cutter. No roll by the screener. NOTHING. Just schoolyard ball until the shot clock runs down and a poor, highly contested shot. I've never seen anything like it in my life. What made it even worse is that we played a team who is doing exactly what we should be doing...running an offense which is tailor made for an athletic team which doesnt shoot the three that well. Spread the other team out and use your superior athleticism to create easy TWO's and lets the threes come when they may. G'town must've gotten 12 shots today off naked back cuts- no screen, just a back cut- just because the cutter executed and the passer was actually looking for him. Guys like Amir, Dom, Balamou, even Karr would thrive in an offense like that and DLo would still get his shots in the flow without having to force everything. They way you shoot 45%+ is to get a certain number of easy buckets whether its in transition (ideally) or out of your offense. When every freakin shot you take is contested, of course you're going to shoot in the 30%.

I'm sorry, this is on the staff. Not at the tactical level, but on the strategic, philosophical level. You want to recruit a bunch of rangy,slashing wing players, then run an offense where they can slash, not stand around watching the two man game at the top of the key. If the players are being asked to do something which doesnt match their skill set and they dont do it well, its not their faults, its the staff's fault.


+1,000,000.   Finally a post that makes sense.

GT offense has struggled to score all year and now that is the offense we should be running, yeah that makes sense. This is the same offense we ran three years ago, I don't remember anyone complaining about it then. The players need to execute. The issue is, and has always been, our defense. That is on the staff. If we stop the other team and rebound the ball, it will give our our players the chance to run. I just don't think the players' as a whole make good decisions on both sides of the floor.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #194 on: January 12, 2013, 02:43:45 PM »
Press needs to go. Does nothing but weakens our half court d. Get back, set up the d, rebound the basketball. That will allow us to run, and unfortunately that is the only way we can score.
*wipes ketchup from his eyes* - I guess Heinz sight isn’t 20/20.

desco80

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #195 on: January 12, 2013, 02:50:08 PM »
And, as for the criticism from the game...
it really pains me to say this but you're both right. 
Our offensive system has been dysfunctional for 2+ years now, and lets not kid ourselves.. it wasn't great in 2010, but we made it look acceptable in some guys.   
But, Linda idk how you can say with a straight face that we have shooters on this team!  Of course we don't.
And some of the blame has to go on coach, he recruited 13 scholarships and at least 8 of them are bad shooters. 
if you're going to recruit all athletic  wings then you need to put them in potions to score. 

the gameplan stinks in my opinion, and the team has inherent offensive deficiencies.
Will we get better?  Im sure they will.   But were starting from such a low baseline that even if the guys improve with experience.. how much better can we be?   
if we were a bubble team this year u could argue with seasoning and everyone back, we could make a descent run next.   maybe have sweet 16 as a goal.
But if we're in cellar this year... how much better can we be?   its looking like our ceiling next year is a tournament bid at best.

that's disappointing.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #196 on: January 12, 2013, 02:51:03 PM »
Unfortunately when our offense plays so poorly, we have almost 0 chance to win. Branch is really the only one on the team besides Harrison with natural scoring abilities. He needs to be out there as much as Harrison. Greene should be 2nd off the bench after Amir or Sir'Dom. Greene's career at PG should be over at this point. I'd rather see it split between Harrison and Branch exclusively. I would also like to see more Balamou on the court.

desco80

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Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #197 on: January 12, 2013, 02:53:46 PM »
Not about coaching here.  We just can't shoot.  I could have them run any offense in the country.  None of them work if there are no shooters/scorers except one.  There is no problem with the offensive sets not coaching here.  Guys are slow moving the ball and all have to defer to Harrison because he's in an island out there.  Lavs needs to recruit more guys who can shoot and score.  It's nothing else.  Georgetown hasn't been impressive.   We finally started hustling and coming back only to be stifled by missing very single free throw we take.

  My perspective as well, MCNPA. 

     If you actually watch the game, instead of trying to prove your crazy theories correct, you will actually see that.  Gtwn is playing good D, a zone defense. We can't shoot at all.  Therefore we are down big. We can get back in the game, but only if we shoot 60%+ in the second half.  If you shoot 20% you will lose every single time.

With all due respect, you guys are just lost. First off Boo, G'town played man for 90% of the game, not zone, so dont go lecturing people about actually watching the game. Second, it has everything to do with the offensive sets, or lack thereof. MCNPA, you want to have them run any offense in the country? Please do, because as I have stated over and over THEY ARENT RUNNING AN OFFENSE AT ALL.

Whenever Gtown played man today, we set a high screen on the ball and then....NOTHING. If it was Harrison with the ball, they doubled him. If it was anyone else, they either switched or fought through the screen and then...NOTHING. No movement away from the ball. No cutter. No roll by the screener. NOTHING. Just schoolyard ball until the shot clock runs down and a poor, highly contested shot. I've never seen anything like it in my life. What made it even worse is that we played a team who is doing exactly what we should be doing...running an offense which is tailor made for an athletic team which doesnt shoot the three that well. Spread the other team out and use your superior athleticism to create easy TWO's and lets the threes come when they may. G'town must've gotten 12 shots today off naked back cuts- no screen, just a back cut- just because the cutter executed and the passer was actually looking for him. Guys like Amir, Dom, Balamou, even Karr would thrive in an offense like that and DLo would still get his shots in the flow without having to force everything. They way you shoot 45%+ is to get a certain number of easy buckets whether its in transition (ideally) or out of your offense. When every freakin shot you take is contested, of course you're going to shoot in the 30%.

I'm sorry, this is on the staff. Not at the tactical level, but on the strategic, philosophical level. You want to recruit a bunch of rangy,slashing wing players, then run an offense where they can slash, not stand around watching the two man game at the top of the key. If the players are being asked to do something which doesnt match their skill set and they dont do it well, its not their faults, its the staff's fault.
+1,000,000.   Finally a post that makes sense.
GT offense has struggled to score all year and now that is the offense we should be running, yeah that makes sense. This is the same offense we ran three years ago, I don't remember anyone complaining about it then. The players need to execute. The issue is, and has always been, our defense. That is on the staff. If we stop the other team and rebound the ball, it will give our our players the chance to run. I just don't think the players' as a whole make good decisions on both sides of the floor.

not true.  it was frustrating 3 years ago too... bc we passed it around the perimeter and did the weave then as well.   only late in the year did we start to make it look better.   
but plenty of people complained about the shot clock killing offense that year.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #198 on: January 12, 2013, 02:54:34 PM »
Sat couple rows behind SJU bench. Going to get worse before it gets better. Players quitting on Lavin. I expect some pretty big blowouts coming up. Harrison, Garrett, Pointer, Branch, Sampson, Felix and Bourgalt all did the eye roll, tune out dance to Lavin upon being taken out. I am not as big a fan of Felix as some but Lavin was putting him and taking out for no particular reason.

Re: Georgetown Game
« Reply #199 on: January 12, 2013, 02:59:19 PM »
Actually it's only 2 seasons of recruiting for this regime and Branch is a pg.  he played well and will only get better.
What about Good old Dwayne Polee jr? :2funny:
and..... I said it before I'll say it again! :crazy2:
Branch at best is a back up or we wouldnt be recruiting a PG out of Vaux HS(in Philly), Branch was already on the team. :uglystupid2:

we can't have more than 1 pg?   
Branch will be a junior next year... there's two years between them, that's perfect.   
If branch was at best a backup we would be recruiting more than one pg!  Jordan is seen as a bonus precisely bc they feel safe with Branch.
Branch will still have sophomore eligibility no?
Phil is a combo/more of a 2
New Recruit would be a total of 2.5-3 PG's
When I look at teams like missouri I don't even know who the back up is let alone recruits?
I'm just Sayin ::)