Georgetown Game

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 11:11:38 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 12, 2013, 07:27:26 PM

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 07:23:19 PM

just back and the best thing I saw today was the women's team.  They scored 40 in 20 minutes while the men had 51 in 40.  They have an exciting Frosh who has stepped up due to an injury to one of the seniors.  I tought attendence wasn't bad for an 11AM start.  MSG has to learn to sell bagels for early start as Hotdogs before noon--yuck!  Phil must NOT start on Tuesday; Branch deserves it after today.  Harrison needs an attitude adjustment so he comes to play 40 and stops complaining to refs.  Despite Sir's shortcomings as noted on many comments, he was the only one to show fire on the court--start hin on Tuesday over Amir-he earned it today.  He played defense with great zeal; led in assists; had steals; even made a 3 but didn't continue to throw them up a la Phil.  Chris continues to rebound well and block shots--he looked like Bill Russell on a couple today; he must have read the comments made about him last game.  Other than than that--yuck!!!

Where did Harrison complain to the refs today?
Seriously?

I honestly hope Harrison leaves.  I wanna see these boards when he's gone.  Days like today would be the norm without him.  Enjoy!

look at the smirks and body language and any ref would tell him to go on and play.  he has to suck it up and not disappear because things are not going HIS way.  It's life--get over it-you can't change the call

Thats why he's been t'ed up how many times in his two years here?  Disappear?  He has turned away all year.  Your going off his rep and making him out to be worse than he is.

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 11:11:38 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 12, 2013, 07:27:26 PM

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 07:23:19 PM

just back and the best thing I saw today was the women's team.  They scored 40 in 20 minutes while the men had 51 in 40.  They have an exciting Frosh who has stepped up due to an injury to one of the seniors.  I tought attendence wasn't bad for an 11AM start.  MSG has to learn to sell bagels for early start as Hotdogs before noon--yuck!  Phil must NOT start on Tuesday; Branch deserves it after today.  Harrison needs an attitude adjustment so he comes to play 40 and stops complaining to refs.  Despite Sir's shortcomings as noted on many comments, he was the only one to show fire on the court--start hin on Tuesday over Amir-he earned it today.  He played defense with great zeal; led in assists; had steals; even made a 3 but didn't continue to throw them up a la Phil.  Chris continues to rebound well and block shots--he looked like Bill Russell on a couple today; he must have read the comments made about him last game.  Other than than that--yuck!!!

Where did Harrison complain to the refs today?
Seriously?

I honestly hope Harrison leaves.  I wanna see these boards when he's gone.  Days like today would be the norm without him.  Enjoy!

look at the smirks and body language and any ref would tell him to go on and play.  he has to suck it up and not disappear because things are not going HIS way.  It's life--get over it-you can't change the call

Thats why he's been t'ed up how many times in his two years here?  Disappear?  He has turned away all year.  Your going off his rep and making him out to be worse than he is.

Quote from: Moose on January 12, 2013, 11:13:30 PM

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 11:11:38 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 12, 2013, 07:27:26 PM

Quote from: redslope on January 12, 2013, 07:23:19 PM

just back and the best thing I saw today was the women's team.  They scored 40 in 20 minutes while the men had 51 in 40.  They have an exciting Frosh who has stepped up due to an injury to one of the seniors.  I tought attendence wasn't bad for an 11AM start.  MSG has to learn to sell bagels for early start as Hotdogs before noon--yuck!  Phil must NOT start on Tuesday; Branch deserves it after today.  Harrison needs an attitude adjustment so he comes to play 40 and stops complaining to refs.  Despite Sir's shortcomings as noted on many comments, he was the only one to show fire on the court--start hin on Tuesday over Amir-he earned it today.  He played defense with great zeal; led in assists; had steals; even made a 3 but didn't continue to throw them up a la Phil.  Chris continues to rebound well and block shots--he looked like Bill Russell on a couple today; he must have read the comments made about him last game.  Other than than that--yuck!!!

Where did Harrison complain to the refs today?
Seriously?

I honestly hope Harrison leaves.  I wanna see these boards when he's gone.  Days like today would be the norm without him.  Enjoy!

look at the smirks and body language and any ref would tell him to go on and play.  he has to suck it up and not disappear because things are not going HIS way.  It's life--get over it-you can't change the call

Thats why he's been t'ed up how many times in his two years here?  Disappear?  He has turned away all year.  Your going off his rep and making him out to be worse than he is.

Disappear--I am going on what I watched at MSG for the last 2 games; how does a 20 point per game scorer not score in the 1st 10 minutes of each half of RU game and goes the 1st 12 minutes of today's game without scoring.  He is a good player but the last 2 games are not an example of such nor of a leader and that is not by reputation; that is by simply watching what was going on the court at MSG in person and not on TV.

My understanding from this board is that Harrison and Branch knew other before college, and that Harrison was part of bringing him here.  What strikes me as odd is that it seemed from watching on TV today that D-Lo does not necessarily like playing with him.  Does anyone else get that same vibe?  This could be just from me watching on TV and speculating at D-Lo's body language towards him during timeouts, etc, so I'm probably dead wrong about this from those who have a better idea about the inner-workings of the team.  If I were D-Lo, I'd want to play with Branch, the only true point on the roster, because I think if we can get the latter to play well, it will only help open things up for Harrison.

I'm sorry but I don't see 30 nba GM's passing on d'lo. He's a one man show right now, imagine how good he can be if you put some talent around him. He handles, can shoot and defends well ( dosent get enough credit for his defense). He has flaws but he has a nba skill ( shooting) and he's very crafty. Anybody complaining about d'lo should really get there head checked, without him were 2-15 right now

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 13, 2013, 12:20:18 AM

My understanding from this board is that Harrison and Branch knew other before college, and that Harrison was part of bringing him here.  What strikes me as odd is that it seemed from watching on TV today that D-Lo does not necessarily like playing with him.  Does anyone else get that same vibe?  This could be just from me watching on TV and speculating at D-Lo's body language towards him during timeouts, etc, so I'm probably dead wrong about this from those who have a better idea about the inner-workings of the team.  If I were D-Lo, I'd want to play with Branch, the only true point on the roster, because I think if we can get the latter to play well, it will only help open things up for Harrison.

I like Branch. But more I see him more I wonder if he's a true point

Quote from: Moose on January 13, 2013, 01:14:41 AM

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 13, 2013, 12:20:18 AM

My understanding from this board is that Harrison and Branch knew other before college, and that Harrison was part of bringing him here.  What strikes me as odd is that it seemed from watching on TV today that D-Lo does not necessarily like playing with him.  Does anyone else get that same vibe?  This could be just from me watching on TV and speculating at D-Lo's body language towards him during timeouts, etc, so I'm probably dead wrong about this from those who have a better idea about the inner-workings of the team.  If I were D-Lo, I'd want to play with Branch, the only true point on the roster, because I think if we can get the latter to play well, it will only help open things up for Harrison.

I like Branch. But more I see him more I wonder if he's a true point

I think he's a pointl. What I do love though, is that he also has a second gear to get by defenders.  When he's running the offense, he keeps his head up and looks for developing offense (even though yesterday there wasn't much).  He ended up having to go to his offensive ability, and he has more than I thought.  Only reason he didn't earn more assists yesterday is that nobody he passed it to could score even if they jumped through the net.  Branch looked a lot better yesterday and I think he'll get exponentially better with more court time.  Big difference between practicing with the team and playing against D1 competition.  Branch will be a good one if only the fans here give him some time to develop.  He just started his collegiate career a few games ago.

Quote from: MCNPA on January 13, 2013, 09:15:15 AM

Quote from: Moose on January 13, 2013, 01:14:41 AM

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 13, 2013, 12:20:18 AM

My understanding from this board is that Harrison and Branch knew other before college, and that Harrison was part of bringing him here.  What strikes me as odd is that it seemed from watching on TV today that D-Lo does not necessarily like playing with him.  Does anyone else get that same vibe?  This could be just from me watching on TV and speculating at D-Lo's body language towards him during timeouts, etc, so I'm probably dead wrong about this from those who have a better idea about the inner-workings of the team.  If I were D-Lo, I'd want to play with Branch, the only true point on the roster, because I think if we can get the latter to play well, it will only help open things up for Harrison.

I like Branch. But more I see him more I wonder if he's a true point

I think he's a pointl. What I do love though, is that he also has a second gear to get by defenders.  When he's running the offense, he keeps his head up and looks for developing offense (even though yesterday there wasn't much).  He ended up having to go to his offensive ability, and he has more than I thought.  Only reason he didn't earn more assists yesterday is that nobody he passed it to could score even if they jumped through the net.  Branch looked a lot better yesterday and I think he'll get exponentially better with more court time.  Big difference between practicing with the team and playing against D1 competition.  Branch will be a good one if only the fans here give him some time to develop.  He just started his collegiate career a few games ago.

He only got descent minutes during the Gtown game and he demonstrated he could score. It is true its hard to get an assist if nobody can make a shot. Give him time then see how he is.

I'm sorry but I don't see 30 nba GM's passing on d'lo. He's a one man show right now, imagine how good he can be if you put some talent around him. He handles, can shoot and defends well ( dosent get enough credit for his defense). He has flaws but he has a nba skill ( shooting) and he's very crafty. Anybody complaining about d'lo should really get there head checked, without him were 2-15 right now

Quote from: MCNPA on January 12, 2013, 08:22:06 PM

I'll say it again.  It's not the offense as much as it is the fact that we are still missing certain parts of the offense.  The biggest think we are missing is a low post scorer.  A guy like Gathers that Lavin was trying to land was supposed to be in that mold.  Now we are also without Sanchez which compounds the issue.  The other thing we don't have a shooters beside D'Angelo.   One last thing is that we haven't had Branch ie. a PG until now.  He will be good at the PG spot, but is just getting his feet wet.

1) new PG
2). Very young team with limited shooters
3) no low-post scoring threat

All three things are surefire recipe for stalled offense.  Why is there not as much motion in the offense as we'd like?  Simple.  Everybody besides D'Angelo is afraid to shoot.  Nobody wants to come off a screen and shoot because they know they'll have to if the ball comes to them.  Jakarr doesn't mind shooting but he has become very hesitant and lost his mojo a bit.

I think people complicate the issues.  Lavin had success with this offense with Norm's guys because we had s lot of upperclassmen but we also had guys that could do the things we are missing now.  It took adding JC players like hardy and brownlee to do it.  We had several guys like hardy, Horne, brownlee and DJ who could hit shots and developed their game over 4 years.  We could play hi-low with Burrell, Evans and Brownlee.

We might not have had as much overall talent but we had a few years of experience under our belts as well as added players to the mix like Lavin will undoubtedly do over next 2 years. Need our personnel to get experience over the next few and add some shooters and low post guys.

It's more fun to just say Lavin can't coach and is an idiot with no plan.

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 12, 2013, 08:29:13 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on January 12, 2013, 08:22:06 PM

I'll say it again.  It's not the offense as much as it is the fact that we are still missing certain parts of the offense.  The biggest think we are missing is a low post scorer.  A guy like Gathers that Lavin was trying to land was supposed to be in that mold.  Now we are also without Sanchez which compounds the issue.  The other thing we don't have a shooters beside D'Angelo.   One last thing is that we haven't had Branch ie. a PG until now.  He will be good at the PG spot, but is just getting his feet wet.

1) new PG
2). Very young team with limited shooters
3) no low-post scoring threat

All three things are surefire recipe for stalled offense.  Why is there not as much motion in the offense as we'd like?  Simple.  Everybody besides D'Angelo is afraid to shoot.  Nobody wants to come off a screen and shoot because they know they'll have to if the ball comes to them.  Jakarr doesn't mind shooting but he has become very hesitant and lost his mojo a bit.

I think people complicate the issues.  Lavin had success with this offense with Norm's guys because we had s lot of upperclassmen but we also had guys that could do the things we are missing now.  It took adding JC players like hardy and brownlee to do it.  We had several guys like hardy, Horne, brownlee and DJ who could hit shots and developed their game over 4 years.  We could play hi-low with Burrell, Evans and Brownlee.

We might not have had as much overall talent but we had a few years of experience under our belts as well as added players to the mix like Lavin will undoubtedly do over next 2 years. Need our personnel to get experience over the next few and add some shooters and low post guys.

It's more fun to just say Lavin can't coach and is an idiot with no plan.

If we have no post players, and no shooters .. What does that tell you about the recruiting job coach did?
Those aren't missing pieces..., that's a huge chunk of your team!
A third wr in football might be a missing piece, but literally no one who can play with their back to the basket, or score (besides Dangelo) .... Perimeter scorers and post players are basically the whole freaking team in basketball, how do we have none?

I agree with you that all our problems aren't strategic coaching decisions, that's being overblown.  Do I like our defense? No.   and I haven't made up my mine on the offense, I could take it or leave it at this point.  But I'll agree the reason were not winning is not all coaching.   Certainly not.

But I can't be giving coach a pat on the back right now for 2 reason:
1) some of our troubles are coaching related.  Not playing Branch at the end of Villanova, not having a better play than Phil dribbling at the end of Nova, or Dangelos isolation 3 at the end of Rutgers? Those are coaching decisions.   Bad ones in my mind.
And 2) he recruited these guys and they are woefully deficient in some areas of the game.   Mcn you say we're a few pieces short, that makes it sound like we need supplemental pieces, but only 5 guys can play at a time.  If we're missing scoring and post play than that means we need at least 2 starters who currently aren't here. 
Missing 2/5s of a team is shitty composition of a team.   
Remember Noah's ark? How we were going to get two of everything?  Where's that second center?  Where's that second point guard?   Is there a real second power forward behind Jakarr?   How come none of our shooting guards or forwards can score? 


You can't argue that coach did a great job assembling this team AND has done a good job coaching them.   If that we're the case we'd be winning.   I lean more towards criticizing how this team was assembled.  I think the coaching is being overrated (although there clearly are things an observer could rationally criticize).

Quote from: desco80 on January 13, 2013, 10:27:05 AM

Quote from: redstorm212 on January 12, 2013, 08:29:13 PM

Quote from: MCNPA on January 12, 2013, 08:22:06 PM

I'll say it again.  It's not the offense as much as it is the fact that we are still missing certain parts of the offense.  The biggest think we are missing is a low post scorer.  A guy like Gathers that Lavin was trying to land was supposed to be in that mold.  Now we are also without Sanchez which compounds the issue.  The other thing we don't have a shooters beside D'Angelo.   One last thing is that we haven't had Branch ie. a PG until now.  He will be good at the PG spot, but is just getting his feet wet.

1) new PG
2). Very young team with limited shooters
3) no low-post scoring threat

All three things are surefire recipe for stalled offense.  Why is there not as much motion in the offense as we'd like?  Simple.  Everybody besides D'Angelo is afraid to shoot.  Nobody wants to come off a screen and shoot because they know they'll have to if the ball comes to them.  Jakarr doesn't mind shooting but he has become very hesitant and lost his mojo a bit.

I think people complicate the issues.  Lavin had success with this offense with Norm's guys because we had s lot of upperclassmen but we also had guys that could do the things we are missing now.  It took adding JC players like hardy and brownlee to do it.  We had several guys like hardy, Horne, brownlee and DJ who could hit shots and developed their game over 4 years.  We could play hi-low with Burrell, Evans and Brownlee.

We might not have had as much overall talent but we had a few years of experience under our belts as well as added players to the mix like Lavin will undoubtedly do over next 2 years. Need our personnel to get experience over the next few and add some shooters and low post guys.

It's more fun to just say Lavin can't coach and is an idiot with no plan.

If we have no post players, and no shooters .. What does that tell you about the recruiting job coach did?
Those aren't missing pieces..., that's a huge chunk of your team!
A third wr in football might be a missing piece, but literally no one who can play with their back to the basket, or score (besides Dangelo) .... Perimeter scorers and post players are basically the whole freaking team in basketball, how do we have none?

I agree with you that all our problems aren't strategic coaching decisions, that's being overblown.  Do I like our defense? No.   and I haven't made up my mine on the offense, I could take it or leave it at this point.  But I'll agree the reason were not winning is not all coaching.   Certainly not.

But I can't be giving coach a pat on the back right now for 2 reason:
1) some of our troubles are coaching related.  Not playing Branch at the end of Villanova, not having a better play than Phil dribbling at the end of Nova, or Dangelos isolation 3 at the end of Rutgers? Those are coaching decisions.   Bad ones in my mind.
And 2) he recruited these guys and they are woefully deficient in some areas of the game.   Mcn you say we're a few pieces short, that makes it sound like we need supplemental pieces, but only 5 guys can play at a time.  If we're missing scoring and post play than that means we need at least 2 starters who currently aren't here. 
Missing 2/5s of a team is shitty composition of a team.   
Remember Noah's ark? How we were going to get two of everything?  Where's that second center?  Where's that second point guard?   Is there a real second power forward behind Jakarr?   How come none of our shooting guards or forwards can score? 


You can't argue that coach did a great job assembling this team AND has done a good job coaching them.   If that we're the case we'd be winning.   I lean more towards criticizing how this team was assembled.  I think the coaching is being overrated (although there clearly are things an observer could rationally criticize).

While I agree with you that the team is not ideally assembled right now, I think the difference between us is that I'm not killing coach for it because I understand why we're in this situation. I think it's unreasonable to have expected Lavin to have kick-ass team in year 2. And If you're going to bring up quotes from Lavin, how about the one where he said this was going to be a 3-4 year process?

Sure, you can nit-pick calls here and there from each loss, but you can literally do that with any team who has lost a game in college basketball this year. "If [insert coach's name here] had done this we woulda won that game." I too question decisions but I think I would do that with any coach.

While it is quite obvious to us fans that this year has been a major disappointment thus far i would keep this in mind.

 No one, besides the Mensa members on this board, had any real optimistic tone for this season. What was our consensus pre season rank in the BE this season? 10? 12? Dead last?

 I'm not making excuses for anyone, coaches , players, fans..no one....but the reality is, no one had this team pegged to go anywhere this season except for posters on these sites, not all, but a lot.  Remember people picking us to win 20+ games?  Lol.

 Perhaps our expectations are a little out of whack?

 Enjoy reading our preseason predictions.

 Baldi had us 4th in the BE.... I had 20 wins... 

 http://johnnyjungle.com/forum/index.php?topic=7182.0

Quote from: Chilleb on January 12, 2013, 09:10:03 PM

I'm sorry but I don't see 30 nba GM's passing on d'lo. He's a one man show right now, imagine how good he can be if you put some talent around him. He handles, can shoot and defends well ( dosent get enough credit for his defense). He has flaws but he has a nba skill ( shooting) and he's very crafty. Anybody complaining about d'lo should really get there head checked, without him were 2-15 right now

He can make it as a pg but machado can't? Don't see it happening. No way he makes it as a sg

Quote from: Chilleb on January 12, 2013, 09:10:03 PM

I'm sorry but I don't see 30 nba GM's passing on d'lo. He's a one man show right now, imagine how good he can be if you put some talent around him. He handles, can shoot and defends well ( dosent get enough credit for his defense). He has flaws but he has a nba skill ( shooting) and he's very crafty. Anybody complaining about d'lo should really get there head checked, without him were 2-15 right now

Agree with you that people shouldn't complain about Dangelo, he's carried is this year.   
But I couldn't disagree more with you about the NBA chilleb, 30 gms will pass on him this year, next year, and the year after.

Quote from: Chilleb on January 12, 2013, 09:10:03 PM

I'm sorry but I don't see 30 nba GM's passing on d'lo. He's a one man show right now, imagine how good he can be if you put some talent around him. He handles, can shoot and defends well ( dosent get enough credit for his defense). He has flaws but he has a nba skill ( shooting) and he's very crafty. Anybody complaining about d'lo should really get there head checked, without him were 2-15 right now

D'Angelo is the most skilled player on the court for St. John's.  But is he ready for the NBA?  Absolutely not

When he is hot, he can be unconscious out there.  Look no further than the Villanova game.  We would've been blown out of that building w/o him.  But he has also had some games this season that he's been ice cold and not adjusted his game accordingly.  However, the big issue with him right now is his handle.  He's obviously a right handed dominant player and the fact that he cannot drive to his left at all limits him offensively.  He gets away with it in college because the fact is he's better than most of the players out there.  But the NBA is a different ball game.  If you as a PG/SG cannot handle the ball on your left side, you are going to be significantly limited out there.  If he wants to have a pro career, which he definitely has the potential to do, he needs to improve that and make himself a more dangerous weapon out there.

I'll say it again.  It's not the offense as much as it is the fact that we are still missing certain parts of the offense.  The biggest think we are missing is a low post scorer.  A guy like Gathers that Lavin was trying to land was supposed to be in that mold.  Now we are also without Sanchez which compounds the issue.  The other thing we don't have a shooters beside D'Angelo.   One last thing is that we haven't had Branch ie. a PG until now.  He will be good at the PG spot, but is just getting his feet wet.

1) new PG
2). Very young team with limited shooters
3) no low-post scoring threat

All three things are surefire recipe for stalled offense.  Why is there not as much motion in the offense as we'd like?  Simple.  Everybody besides D'Angelo is afraid to shoot.  Nobody wants to come off a screen and shoot because they know they'll have to if the ball comes to them.  Jakarr doesn't mind shooting but he has become very hesitant and lost his mojo a bit.

I think people complicate the issues.  Lavin had success with this offense with Norm's guys because we had s lot of upperclassmen but we also had guys that could do the things we are missing now.  It took adding JC players like hardy and brownlee to do it.  We had several guys like hardy, Horne, brownlee and DJ who could hit shots and developed their game over 4 years.  We could play hi-low with Burrell, Evans and Brownlee.

We might not have had as much overall talent but we had a few years of experience under our belts as well as added players to the mix like Lavin will undoubtedly do over next 2 years. Need our personnel to get experience over the next few and add some shooters and low post guys.