Next Season

 Wow, you've been a fan since 2005, a hardcore one since 2010!  Oh my.. poor kid.  You should definitely pack it in.   It must have been a rough few years....

 Funniest thing I've read.   Now I'll finish the second two paragraphs..


 The St. John's University fan base... second to everyone.. 

Wow, you've been a fan since 2005, a hardcore one since 2010!  Oh my.. poor kid.  You should definitely pack it in.   It must have been a rough few years....

 Funniest thing I've read.   Now I'll finish the second two paragraphs..


 The St. John's University fan base... second to everyone.. 

This line was best-

" this team has earned 1 more year of hardcore following from me."

This is the most apathetic student fan base I have ever seen.  Most of them stand behind the basket all game with their hands crossed.  Man, I've been going to games since I was 11 and have gone to almost every game since 86 and always have been one of the few who would be yelling and cheering all game.  Someone better get the gravelly voice and step up!!!!

This isn't really a fair characterization. It's true, the student section isn't the best, but what about all the other fans in the arena that sit on their hands all game? MSG security won't even let students stand except in the one section behind the basket, not to the left or right of it. A few years ago, after the Duke lost, we tried to storm the court, and were pushed back by security. One student near me was even choke slammed.

In addition to all this, consider the fact that all the students are 22 or less. They have never seen a successful St. John's team (or not one easy to remember anyway) so where do they get their pride and spirit from? It has to be manufactured. A few years ago, when we were winning all those ranked games the student section could be a madhouse, like it was in the late run against Marquette.

It's like everyone says, you can't really criticize the fan's that go, because at least they are going. Let's wait until we are a successful team before we start jumping down fan's throats, because God knows there are a lot more serious problems than that.

Quote from: shamsman2 on March 26, 2013, 10:18:43 AM

Your point being what? That Lavin is a chowderhead and simpleton, focused only on his own future, hired the 3 stooges as asst. coaches, an old guy who is on the bench for show and is gliding by on personality only. Well you may be right, time will tel.l won't it. Others here have doubts too and more patience perhaps, but not you. Have not read from anyone about "Lavin being infallible". While MCNPA is a 30% on the anxiety meter, where would you place yourself? Anxious people love certainty.

I always thought I was a pretty good writer and yet people are continually asking me what my point is. A less confident person would perhaps  re evaluate his self assessment. I am content to soldier on.

My point is: that the same people who read Harrison's tattoos like they're hieroglyphics and psychoanalyze him every time he blinks ignore or mock the idea that Lavin - a celebrity who suffered a very public humiliation at UCLA - might have some issues of his own and that those issues might manifest themselves in the way he behaves professionally. The very idea that he might suffer from the same emotions and neuroses as every other homo sapien is dismissed as the fantasy of a conspiracy theorist.

I don't suffer any anxiety about Saint John's. None. I don't even consider myself a "fan." I've had the fan beaten out of me over 30 years. Now I just follow the basketball team. It's kind of like bird watching. I don't root for the yellow bellied sapsuckers, I just like to look at them. The benefit of that POV is that when a see a grackle I don't mistake it for a bald eagle.

If you don't think Lavin is sliding by on his personality you're not paying attention. His personality is his strength: that's why he's a good recruiter and good with the media. If he wasn't telegenic and charming in his own vapid way the commentary would be quite different. People would be talking about his suits and parsing his post game comments. Lavin and Norm were both right when they played the "we're young" card. The same comments that were roundly mocked during the last administration are now greeted with knowing nods of the head. That's the cult of personality. It's not the speaker, it's the listener.

I don't understand how patience is relevant. I'm talking about what's happening in front of my eyes, today. Perhaps you mean that you're willing to categorize this season of atrocious basketball as something other than atrocious merely because next year the results might be different. I didn't expect this team to do much and wasn't surprised when it didn't. And I expect next year to be better. But I don't see what that has to do with why the walk ons are playing or why Dom Pointer is punching people or the wisdom of calling time outs while your team is on a run or any of the other questionable things that went on this season. Those things are troubling regardless.

I haven't called for Lavin's head - and in fact think the idea of calling for his head absurd. In the first place nobody cares what I think and in the second if Lavin were to leave now it would be catastrophic (relatively speaking obviously). No one except the lunatic fringe thinks Lavin should go anywhere. No one but the lunatic fringe thinks the program is not better off than it was 5 years ago. But on the other side of the lunatic fringe there are people who think everything is swell. Everything is not swell. It may be that the not swell bits are mere bumps in the road. But it may be also that they're sink holes. My point is: can Lavin tell the difference.

Lavin is Lavin and he has somehow gained untouchable status at St Johns.  Whether it's Koolaid in the water or just the fear of regressing to the Roberts/Jarvis days It's obvious to me that he's here to stay - provided he wants to.  That's the proviso that carries the most hope to me.  Above all Steve is a shameless self promoter with nary a shred of loyalty in his being.  Unfortunately though, he isn't very good at what he does and the odds of him finding another suck.. er, major program to buy in have become slim to none.  He's probably far better suited to the pro game with their limited practices and coaching but even with his line of sh** some sort of credentials would be necessary.  But hey, even Dunlap got a shot for squeezing 13 wins out of Lavin's putrid roster so truly, anything is possible.  I've given it some thought and it appears our only chance is rooting for another NCAA year this coming season.  We all know it will be a one shot deal so let's shoot for the moon and suck in some NBA franchise with ratings problems.  Steve's goodby speech could set some sort of record for phonyness but who cares as long as we get a shot to clean house before Cluess gets too old or lands in a better spot.  Well it's not much but it's something to hope for beyond the soon to be incessant DLo coming or going threads.

^Flabbergasted in the most extreme.

 Oh Bob....

Quote from: bigmaxnosauce on March 26, 2013, 12:50:26 PM

This is the most apathetic student fan base I have ever seen.  Most of them stand behind the basket all game with their hands crossed.  Man, I've been going to games since I was 11 and have gone to almost every game since 86 and always have been one of the few who would be yelling and cheering all game.  Someone better get the gravelly voice and step up!!!!

This isn't really a fair characterization. It's true, the student section isn't the best, but what about all the other fans in the arena that sit on their hands all game? MSG security won't even let students stand except in the one section behind the basket, not to the left or right of it. A few years ago, after the Duke lost, we tried to storm the court, and were pushed back by security. One student near me was even choke slammed.

In addition to all this, consider the fact that all the students are 22 or less. They have never seen a successful St. John's team (or not one easy to remember anyway) so where do they get their pride and spirit from? It has to be manufactured. A few years ago, when we were winning all those ranked games the student section could be a madhouse, like it was in the late run against Marquette.

It's like everyone says, you can't really criticize the fan's that go, because at least they are going. Let's wait until we are a successful team before we start jumping down fan's throats, because God knows there are a lot more serious problems than that.

Agreed. No one takes more heat from the older SJ fans (many of whom never even went to the school) than the recent/current SJ student fanbase. We have never seen a good SJ team in our lives, yet you want us to follow them as if they are the Yankees. I've said it before and I'll say it again: the product on the court is supposed to bring out the fans and not vice versa.

Fans don't recruit for Lavin. Fans don't shoot 11% from 3PT. Fans don't clunk 40% of free throws. Fans are not responsible for 1 truly competitive year in a decade. You want the SJ students to come out? Tell the team to give a reason. That's how the world works...supply and demand. Right now there is not much demand for a team that has done nothing but trip over its own tail for the past decade plus. Like the other poster said, let's wait until our team really DOES give the students a reason to come out and go nuts. By "a reason to come out" I mean be ranked, be a consistent winner, and stack a few NCAA tourney berths in a row. People need to stop criticizing students for not embracing a crap product. It's like being upset because people don't act like products from a 99 cent store are high quality. We have only seen the students reaction during doom and gloom years...never a real sustained 2 or 3 years of success.

 Not a Cubs fan, I presume?

 Call me crazy, but fan loyalty has nothing to do with wins and losses.  It's easy to be a fan when you root for the Yankees.  Should Mets fans give up and become front runners, then?

 FTR- I have nothing against the student fans or the "older" fans.  I think that whole argument is dumb.  I also agree, that wins will certainly excite the general fan base. Those aren't your real fans though.

 I haven't seen Spike Lee since he sat courtside with his Erick Barkley jersey on in 2000.  Those people are frauds.

Well I am now a Florida Gulf Coast fan and if Harvey /Wheeler rebuilding doesn't show something by next year I converting to a Nationals fan.

As Boo mentioned when you win, you get attention-

Florida Gulf Coast Univ. men’s basketball team is “basking in the national spotlight -- and loving it" as it prepares to play the Univ. of Florida in the NCAA Tournament on Friday, according to Dave Breitenstein of the Ft. Myers NEWS-PRESS. National media including ESPN “set up shop” yesterday on campus. Sunday website counts “showed 177,093 unique visitors for fgcu.edu and 93,730 for fgcuathletics.com, a combined seven times higher than the previous Sunday.” The athletics site at one point on Sunday “crashed when too many people logged on at the same time.” A fully stocked campus bookstore opened at 8:00am ET yesterday, but “entire racks of clothing were cleaned out by closing time.” FGCU’s “rapidly expanding fan base overwhelmed cashiers who stared down lines 60-people deep at one point.” Sales figures from yesterday “won’t be available until today, but the total likely will be in the tens of thousands, if not more.” FGCU Admissions Dir Marc Laviolette said that the tournament run “also will affect admissions.” The admissions office “usually receives 20 online requests for more information each day." Laviolette said that the number "jumped to 200 this weekend.” Laviolette: “This kind of exposure, I couldn’t afford to purchase or spend that kind of money for all of the advertising and marketing that this is getting us” (Ft. Myers NEWS-PRESS, 3/26). The AP’s Tim Reynolds reported phone lines were “jammed by those seeking tickets for this weekend's South Regional,” and even FGCU President Wilson Bradshaw “half-seriously wondered if he would be able to obtain what he needed” (AP, 3/25). In Ft. Lauderdale, Dave Hyde writes FGCU “staggered under the sweet onslaught of attention.” An ESPN crew “gave hourly updates outside the basketball arena.” National radio shows “wanted any player or coach they could get.” FGCU SID Patrick Pierson “sat at his desk after 45 minutes of sleep Sunday night and tried to wade through the hundreds of unanswered texts and emails.” Pierson said, "We aren't capable of handling this. I'm not too proud to say it -- this is too much for us” (South Florida SUN-SENTINEL, 3/26).

Not a Cubs fan, I presume?

 Call me crazy, but fan loyalty has nothing to do with wins and losses.  It's easy to be a fan when you root for the Yankees.  Should Mets fans give up and become front runners, then?

I'm a Mets fan too...and I'm in a similar position with them as I am with SJ. They actually parallel eerily closely. SJ had its "big" year in 2011, got a lot of fans hooked, and have done nothing but fail since. The Mets had their big year in 2006, invigorated the fanbase and appeared to finally be ready to seriously compete for years. They also have done nothing but fail since. I realize some of the things I post come off as frontrunner esque, but everyone knows deep down that they would root much harder for their teams if they seriously competed. That's just human nature and logic.

Notice I never said I would stop following them, but I would definitely make it a much smaller part of my life and much less of a priority. I don't jump to other teams, I stay with the same ones. If you are from LI chances are people around you root for the Queens based teams i.e. Mets, Jets (used to play in Shea), SJ, etc. and it's part of the culture. I think the very fact that some of you don't seem disappointed in the failure of the SJ program is a testament to the fact that you have gotten used to it. At least you guys can still close your eyes and remember 1985. We have nothing to fall back on like that.

The small following of SJ basketball is a product of trying to squeeze every last drop from 1985 season and make it seem like it was yesterday. In the same way the Mets hold onto 1986 and expect the fans to still feed off that, SJ expects the fans to still feed off 1985. In a "what have you done for me lately" town, that does not cut it. Some teams just have negative cultures that seem to envelop programs. SJ is one of those. Lots of people on here think I'm negative just to get my kicks being negative. Not true. When a team I love gives me real reason for hope, I will be the first one getting a ticket. Blame my negativity on the negative culture the SJ program has created itself over the years.

Not a Cubs fan, I presume?

 Call me crazy, but fan loyalty has nothing to do with wins and losses.  It's easy to be a fan when you root for the Yankees.  Should Mets fans give up and become front runners, then?

 FTR- I have nothing against the student fans or the "older" fans.  I think that whole argument is dumb.  I also agree, that wins will certainly excite the general fan base. Those aren't your real fans though.

 I haven't seen Spike Lee since he sat courtside with his Erick Barkley jersey on in 2000.  Those people are frauds.

Well yes, those aren't your real fans, but the point was that the students really have no incentive to come out to the games if there isn't a winning product to see.

As Boo mentioned when you win, you get attention-

Florida Gulf Coast Univ. men’s basketball team is “basking in the national spotlight -- and loving it" as it prepares to play the Univ. of Florida in the NCAA Tournament on Friday, according to Dave Breitenstein of the Ft. Myers NEWS-PRESS. National media including ESPN “set up shop” yesterday on campus. Sunday website counts “showed 177,093 unique visitors for fgcu.edu and 93,730 for fgcuathletics.com, a combined seven times higher than the previous Sunday.” The athletics site at one point on Sunday “crashed when too many people logged on at the same time.” A fully stocked campus bookstore opened at 8:00am ET yesterday, but “entire racks of clothing were cleaned out by closing time.” FGCU’s “rapidly expanding fan base overwhelmed cashiers who stared down lines 60-people deep at one point.” Sales figures from yesterday “won’t be available until today, but the total likely will be in the tens of thousands, if not more.” FGCU Admissions Dir Marc Laviolette said that the tournament run “also will affect admissions.” The admissions office “usually receives 20 online requests for more information each day." Laviolette said that the number "jumped to 200 this weekend.” Laviolette: “This kind of exposure, I couldn’t afford to purchase or spend that kind of money for all of the advertising and marketing that this is getting us” (Ft. Myers NEWS-PRESS, 3/26). The AP’s Tim Reynolds reported phone lines were “jammed by those seeking tickets for this weekend's South Regional,” and even FGCU President Wilson Bradshaw “half-seriously wondered if he would be able to obtain what he needed” (AP, 3/25). In Ft. Lauderdale, Dave Hyde writes FGCU “staggered under the sweet onslaught of attention.” An ESPN crew “gave hourly updates outside the basketball arena.” National radio shows “wanted any player or coach they could get.” FGCU SID Patrick Pierson “sat at his desk after 45 minutes of sleep Sunday night and tried to wade through the hundreds of unanswered texts and emails.” Pierson said, "We aren't capable of handling this. I'm not too proud to say it -- this is too much for us” (South Florida SUN-SENTINEL, 3/26).

I had a condo in Naples and went to FGCU games five years ago when crowds totaled about 300 people.

Too many brothers post too many words in they posts.

No one's gonna read that.

One thing about fans that does worry me is the culture overall.  You see these other schools in the tournament and they have a big fan support.  And I'm not talking about Ohio St playing in Dayton.  When I went to Denver in Lav's first year we had a good group but hardly a big number.  When I went to the Final Four in Detroit a few years back I was amazed at how many Nova fans were there.  Knowing they come from similar background and size as use I really couldn't picture STJ having that big of a contingent if they got there.

Too many brothers post too many words in they posts.

No one's gonna read that.

Mine is an article

I don't think so Moose. That was a pretty long way to travel for fans, and it wasn't a particularly enticing matchup, especially with DJ going down. You better bet your life there would be a lot of fans if we go to the  Final Four anytime soon.  Especially if we have a little success the years before to build the base up.

I don't think so Moose. That was a pretty long way to travel for fans, and it wasn't a particularly enticing matchup, especially with DJ going down. You better bet your life there would be a lot of fans if we go to the  Final Four anytime soon.  Especially if we have a little success the years before to build the base up.

Well what about last time there was sustained success.  Who went to tournament games under Jarvis.  Where were they and how many fans would you think were there?

*Also remember last time STJ made a FF they weren't played in Football stadiums.  Ford Field the year I went was obviously loaded with Mich St fans, Uconn had 2nd most, then honestly Nova had more fans than UNC on Saturday.  However Monday more UNC fans showed.

Oh Bob....

Oh Boo.   Booooooo to you and your 4000 plus posts.  I've had a little over 300 and still get attacked and quoted like crazy - with emphasis on the crazy.  Yeah I don't care for Lavin just as I wouldn't anyone else who doesn't get the job done.  I go back to the Mullin days and have seen a lot more than most in person.  I think I've earned the right to speak my piece re the subject.  So you know what you can do with your 4000 posts.

Quote from: survivedc on March 26, 2013, 04:25:24 PM

I don't think so Moose. That was a pretty long way to travel for fans, and it wasn't a particularly enticing matchup, especially with DJ going down. You better bet your life there would be a lot of fans if we go to the  Final Four anytime soon.  Especially if we have a little success the years before to build the base up.

Well what about last time there was sustained success.  Who went to tournament games under Jarvis.  Where were they and how many fans would you think were there?

Have to be honest, I was a younger fan at the time, so I'll have to defer to your knowledge on the subject. I just remember in 2011 hearing people in the city having conversations about the team, so I like to think that would transfer to people in the seats if that success continues.