Does St Johns finish......?

Quote from: jr49 on May 10, 2013, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 10, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

I see us as a bubble team. I think it really depends on Jordan and Sanchez on if we are better than that. My concerns are:
1. If Harrison comes back, I am not sure that will work out. If Harrison was unhappy before, how is he going to feel potentially lossing shots and minutes? If Lavin got fed up with Harrison on a team with no other options, how much tolerance we he have now?-I PREDICT THIS WON'T END WELL
2. Team seems to have more talent, but still only has two somewhat dependable scorers.-Hopefully Sanchez and more likely Jordan help here, but I am not sold Harrison situation works out.
3. Harrison is the only shooter.-Again if that situation blows up again we are back to having no shooters.
4. Team has two real good players, two potential real good players and a bunch of solid players.-Way too many options for Lavin. KISS strategy seems to work best for coach.
5. Phil Greene love affair. Coach / Greene relationship seems to fall somewhere between Norm / Geno relationship and Michael Jackson / Macauly Culkin relationship.-The roster is more talented so logically, Phils's role should be decreased. I predict that does not happen.

If all my concerns come to fruition, I think we still are right on the bubble. If Sanchez and Jordan are as good as advertised, Sweet 16 would be a nice goal.

Your concern is we are not a better team. If your going to bring  Macauly Culkin/ Michael Jackson or Gino into it, and not give coach enough credit to handle personnel properly then I guess you should have concerns with all the silliness mixed in. We are better. We are where the coach envisioned us going into year 4. We have more depth, experience and talent. Why would we not be better. Guys in the business have said, look out for St. Johns. I will give you this. Sometimes things don't work out. I'a not looking for things not to work out. I'm looking for this team to tear other teams up. I doubt coach going to be looking for Macauly or Geno.   

I happen to like Lavin. I think that almost everyone here does. But the way the Harrison situation was handled was awful. Lavin ended his season-and he ended ours by doing so. For those who invested in this program, it was a pretty awful thing to do.

 Disagree. Handled it fine.  Kid gets part of the blame too, no?

Maybe Lavs let's it fester.  We win another game or two and then the kid leaves anyway.  Then what ?

Considering it looks fairly certain the he's coming back, I think it was handled fine. 

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: jr49 on May 10, 2013, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 10, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

I see us as a bubble team. I think it really depends on Jordan and Sanchez on if we are better than that. My concerns are:
1. If Harrison comes back, I am not sure that will work out. If Harrison was unhappy before, how is he going to feel potentially lossing shots and minutes? If Lavin got fed up with Harrison on a team with no other options, how much tolerance we he have now?-I PREDICT THIS WON'T END WELL
2. Team seems to have more talent, but still only has two somewhat dependable scorers.-Hopefully Sanchez and more likely Jordan help here, but I am not sold Harrison situation works out.
3. Harrison is the only shooter.-Again if that situation blows up again we are back to having no shooters.
4. Team has two real good players, two potential real good players and a bunch of solid players.-Way too many options for Lavin. KISS strategy seems to work best for coach.
5. Phil Greene love affair. Coach / Greene relationship seems to fall somewhere between Norm / Geno relationship and Michael Jackson / Macauly Culkin relationship.-The roster is more talented so logically, Phils's role should be decreased. I predict that does not happen.

If all my concerns come to fruition, I think we still are right on the bubble. If Sanchez and Jordan are as good as advertised, Sweet 16 would be a nice goal.

Your concern is we are not a better team. If your going to bring  Macauly Culkin/ Michael Jackson or Gino into it, and not give coach enough credit to handle personnel properly then I guess you should have concerns with all the silliness mixed in. We are better. We are where the coach envisioned us going into year 4. We have more depth, experience and talent. Why would we not be better. Guys in the business have said, look out for St. Johns. I will give you this. Sometimes things don't work out. I'a not looking for things not to work out. I'm looking for this team to tear other teams up. I doubt coach going to be looking for Macauly or Geno.   

I happen to like Lavin. I think that almost everyone here does. But the way the Harrison situation was handled was awful. Lavin ended his season-and he ended ours by doing so. For those who invested in this program, it was a pretty awful thing to do.

 Disagree. Handled it fine.  Kid gets part of the blame too, no?

Maybe Lavs let's it fester.  We win another game or two and then the kid leaves anyway.  Then what ?

Considering it looks fairly certain the he's coming back, I think it was handled fine. 

Lavin suspended him twice before. So the third time will work? Maybe so, but I would have preferred a solution that allowed for the season to not be thrown away. This is bigger than just Lavin and Harrison. The players, fans and University all lost out.

I would have liked to have seen a more successful, and less final discipline.

I guess I'm ok with sacrificing the end of last season ( we weren't going anywhere , anyway), if it means Harrison comes back this season a better player/ teammate. 

 Water under the bridge for me.

There are many things that make up a D-1 coach.   Steve Lavin is known as a players coach.  To his detriment at UCLA where it was perceived as a weakness (interestingly the the same wingnuts whose complaints about Howland was that he DIDN'T relate to his players on a personal basis!).   And it was perceived because of this that Lavin was a weak disciplinarian.  But as with most things about coach, you can follow his tendencies back thru his career.  D'lo isn't the first time he's taken the draconian step of sacrificing a post-season to discipline a player for what he perceived the more important long term good of the team.   He suspended junior center Jelani McCoy, and future team leading scorer Kris Johnson (son of Marques) - costing him a likely return to the Elite 8 his 2nd year at UCLA.

And back to that more than one thing making up a coach.   Nothjing bugged me more (givin coaches record of 4 sweet 16s, an elite 8, 6 consecutive top 25 finishes) when his detractors would call him an underachieving coach because "just think what Coach X (insert name of flavor of the week coach they'd perfer) would have done with that talent."    And I would scream back in "all caps",   BUT UNLESS X stands for Krzyzewski, Roy Williams or Rick Pitino, WE WOULDN'T HAVE THAT TALENT WITH COACH X!!!!

Quote from: boo3 on May 11, 2013, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: jr49 on May 10, 2013, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 10, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

I see us as a bubble team. I think it really depends on Jordan and Sanchez on if we are better than that. My concerns are:
1. If Harrison comes back, I am not sure that will work out. If Harrison was unhappy before, how is he going to feel potentially lossing shots and minutes? If Lavin got fed up with Harrison on a team with no other options, how much tolerance we he have now?-I PREDICT THIS WON'T END WELL
2. Team seems to have more talent, but still only has two somewhat dependable scorers.-Hopefully Sanchez and more likely Jordan help here, but I am not sold Harrison situation works out.
3. Harrison is the only shooter.-Again if that situation blows up again we are back to having no shooters.
4. Team has two real good players, two potential real good players and a bunch of solid players.-Way too many options for Lavin. KISS strategy seems to work best for coach.
5. Phil Greene love affair. Coach / Greene relationship seems to fall somewhere between Norm / Geno relationship and Michael Jackson / Macauly Culkin relationship.-The roster is more talented so logically, Phils's role should be decreased. I predict that does not happen.

If all my concerns come to fruition, I think we still are right on the bubble. If Sanchez and Jordan are as good as advertised, Sweet 16 would be a nice goal.

Your concern is we are not a better team. If your going to bring  Macauly Culkin/ Michael Jackson or Gino into it, and not give coach enough credit to handle personnel properly then I guess you should have concerns with all the silliness mixed in. We are better. We are where the coach envisioned us going into year 4. We have more depth, experience and talent. Why would we not be better. Guys in the business have said, look out for St. Johns. I will give you this. Sometimes things don't work out. I'a not looking for things not to work out. I'm looking for this team to tear other teams up. I doubt coach going to be looking for Macauly or Geno.   

I happen to like Lavin. I think that almost everyone here does. But the way the Harrison situation was handled was awful. Lavin ended his season-and he ended ours by doing so. For those who invested in this program, it was a pretty awful thing to do.

 Disagree. Handled it fine.  Kid gets part of the blame too, no?

Maybe Lavs let's it fester.  We win another game or two and then the kid leaves anyway.  Then what ?

Considering it looks fairly certain the he's coming back, I think it was handled fine. 

Lavin suspended him twice before. So the third time will work? Maybe so, but I would have preferred a solution that allowed for the season to not be thrown away. This is bigger than just Lavin and Harrison. The players, fans and University all lost out.

I would have liked to have seen a more successful, and less final discipline.

How can you question a coach's decision without knowing what it was based on?  You can't have a cancer on the team no matter how talented they are. Yeah, we probably win a few more game last year if he stayed on, but we have a chance to be much better with a refocused Harrison. 

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 11:19:23 AM

Quote from: boo3 on May 11, 2013, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: jr49 on May 10, 2013, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 10, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

I see us as a bubble team. I think it really depends on Jordan and Sanchez on if we are better than that. My concerns are:
1. If Harrison comes back, I am not sure that will work out. If Harrison was unhappy before, how is he going to feel potentially lossing shots and minutes? If Lavin got fed up with Harrison on a team with no other options, how much tolerance we he have now?-I PREDICT THIS WON'T END WELL
2. Team seems to have more talent, but still only has two somewhat dependable scorers.-Hopefully Sanchez and more likely Jordan help here, but I am not sold Harrison situation works out.
3. Harrison is the only shooter.-Again if that situation blows up again we are back to having no shooters.
4. Team has two real good players, two potential real good players and a bunch of solid players.-Way too many options for Lavin. KISS strategy seems to work best for coach.
5. Phil Greene love affair. Coach / Greene relationship seems to fall somewhere between Norm / Geno relationship and Michael Jackson / Macauly Culkin relationship.-The roster is more talented so logically, Phils's role should be decreased. I predict that does not happen.

If all my concerns come to fruition, I think we still are right on the bubble. If Sanchez and Jordan are as good as advertised, Sweet 16 would be a nice goal.

Your concern is we are not a better team. If your going to bring  Macauly Culkin/ Michael Jackson or Gino into it, and not give coach enough credit to handle personnel properly then I guess you should have concerns with all the silliness mixed in. We are better. We are where the coach envisioned us going into year 4. We have more depth, experience and talent. Why would we not be better. Guys in the business have said, look out for St. Johns. I will give you this. Sometimes things don't work out. I'a not looking for things not to work out. I'm looking for this team to tear other teams up. I doubt coach going to be looking for Macauly or Geno.   

I happen to like Lavin. I think that almost everyone here does. But the way the Harrison situation was handled was awful. Lavin ended his season-and he ended ours by doing so. For those who invested in this program, it was a pretty awful thing to do.

 Disagree. Handled it fine.  Kid gets part of the blame too, no?

Maybe Lavs let's it fester.  We win another game or two and then the kid leaves anyway.  Then what ?

Considering it looks fairly certain the he's coming back, I think it was handled fine. 

Lavin suspended him twice before. So the third time will work? Maybe so, but I would have preferred a solution that allowed for the season to not be thrown away. This is bigger than just Lavin and Harrison. The players, fans and University all lost out.

I would have liked to have seen a more successful, and less final discipline.

How can you question a coach's decision without knowing what it was based on?  You can't have a cancer on the team no matter how talented they are. Yeah, we probably win a few more game last year if he stayed on, but we have a chance to be much better with a refocused Harrison.

As much as I would love to believe Harrison will be "refocused" I find the saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks," to hold true most of the time. I wouldn't doubt him having similar problems especially with another ball dominating guard like Rysheed coming in.

Quote from: Marillac on May 11, 2013, 12:45:29 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 11:19:23 AM

Quote from: boo3 on May 11, 2013, 11:10:23 AM

Quote from: Poison on May 11, 2013, 09:36:20 AM

Quote from: jr49 on May 10, 2013, 07:54:17 PM

Quote from: we are sju on May 10, 2013, 02:28:56 PM

I see us as a bubble team. I think it really depends on Jordan and Sanchez on if we are better than that. My concerns are:
1. If Harrison comes back, I am not sure that will work out. If Harrison was unhappy before, how is he going to feel potentially lossing shots and minutes? If Lavin got fed up with Harrison on a team with no other options, how much tolerance we he have now?-I PREDICT THIS WON'T END WELL
2. Team seems to have more talent, but still only has two somewhat dependable scorers.-Hopefully Sanchez and more likely Jordan help here, but I am not sold Harrison situation works out.
3. Harrison is the only shooter.-Again if that situation blows up again we are back to having no shooters.
4. Team has two real good players, two potential real good players and a bunch of solid players.-Way too many options for Lavin. KISS strategy seems to work best for coach.
5. Phil Greene love affair. Coach / Greene relationship seems to fall somewhere between Norm / Geno relationship and Michael Jackson / Macauly Culkin relationship.-The roster is more talented so logically, Phils's role should be decreased. I predict that does not happen.

If all my concerns come to fruition, I think we still are right on the bubble. If Sanchez and Jordan are as good as advertised, Sweet 16 would be a nice goal.

Your concern is we are not a better team. If your going to bring  Macauly Culkin/ Michael Jackson or Gino into it, and not give coach enough credit to handle personnel properly then I guess you should have concerns with all the silliness mixed in. We are better. We are where the coach envisioned us going into year 4. We have more depth, experience and talent. Why would we not be better. Guys in the business have said, look out for St. Johns. I will give you this. Sometimes things don't work out. I'a not looking for things not to work out. I'm looking for this team to tear other teams up. I doubt coach going to be looking for Macauly or Geno.   

I happen to like Lavin. I think that almost everyone here does. But the way the Harrison situation was handled was awful. Lavin ended his season-and he ended ours by doing so. For those who invested in this program, it was a pretty awful thing to do.

 Disagree. Handled it fine.  Kid gets part of the blame too, no?

Maybe Lavs let's it fester.  We win another game or two and then the kid leaves anyway.  Then what ?

Considering it looks fairly certain the he's coming back, I think it was handled fine. 

Lavin suspended him twice before. So the third time will work? Maybe so, but I would have preferred a solution that allowed for the season to not be thrown away. This is bigger than just Lavin and Harrison. The players, fans and University all lost out.

I would have liked to have seen a more successful, and less final discipline.

How can you question a coach's decision without knowing what it was based on?  You can't have a cancer on the team no matter how talented they are. Yeah, we probably win a few more game last year if he stayed on, but we have a chance to be much better with a refocused Harrison.

As much as I would love to believe Harrison will be "refocused" I find the saying, "you can't teach an old dog new tricks," to hold true most of the time. I wouldn't doubt him having similar problems especially with another ball dominating guard like Rysheed coming in.

The good thing is Harrison isn't an "old dog". He's a college kid who is still learning. Maybe Lav's hardline on this one will help Harrison grow up; maybe it won't. But doing nothing would not have been right for the kid, the team or the program.

I'm one of those who likes Harrison. I think he's a competitor who will do what's necessary to help his team win. I'm more optimistic than you that he comes back with a greater commitment to being a team leader.

Whether suspending Harrison for the rest of the season was the correct approach, as opposed to a game or 2 is something hard to evaluate if you dont have all the facts. Ill say one thing, I dont know why, but he wasnt playing well before the suspention.Hopefully next year we will have an improved more disciplined Harrison.

He suspended junior center Jelani McCoy, and future team leading scorer Kris Johnson (son of Marques) - costing him a likely return to the Elite 8 his 2nd year at UCLA.

Confused. Didn't McCoy quit the team? Weren't he and KJ suspended for failing drug tests? Didn't Schea Cotton flunk out of school? Hard to see how that makes Lavin a disciplinarian.

========

On a related note, this is pretty bizarre, considering its from CA circa 1998. It sounds like me, circa two months ago:

"the Bruins look less like a cohesive unit than a careless NBA tryout camp ... the UCLA program has become a safe place for self-promotion, catering to large egos, high-maintenance talent, and the mini-mistakes of Coach Steve Lavin ... Lavin's disingenuous statements throughout the agonizing process, all the way through his groan-inducing news-conference performance on Sunday ....

the team's recent sloppy play signifies a sloppier attitude ... a chaotic half-court offense, its lax perimeter defense, Lavin's strained reactions to even the smallest second-guessing ...

In that context, McCoy's ever-increasing distance from the team and from its rules is a dark indicator for the future, because McCoy was not a bad person finally bounced for horrible crimes. McCoy is a smart, stubborn 20-year-old with the God-given talent to control basketball games, who didn't know any better and was never forced to know better. He wasn't a lost cause, not until midway through this season. These things do not happen in a vacuum."

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/17/sports/sp-20062

Quote from: RedStormyNight on May 10, 2013, 12:54:18 AM

Quote from: Dave on May 09, 2013, 10:55:24 PM

Don't sleep on Creighton especially if Grant Gibbs gets 1 more year of eligibility.

I wouldn't sleep on them, but you have to figure they will meet a lot more resistance than ever before. This is not a league with 2 other good teams and the rest cupcakes...this is a conference stacked 1-8 and even Seton Hall and DePaul will give you more than you want many times. They have never been in a conference where almost every conference game is a NCAA tourney opponent. I expect they will still knock off some big boys but I just don't see them making a seamless transition like nothing changed.

Why don't you do some homework on the Missouri Valley Conference first.

The only true powers the MVC has is Creighton and Wichita State. After that the dropoff is steep. You really think Evansville, Bradley, Missouri State, Drake, SIU, UNI, and ISU are great teams? Now instead of those teams they get Villanova, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, SJ, Butler, Xavier, etc. IMO it's seriously reaching to assume that an MVC team will not go through a bit of a struggle at least early on to adjust to the Big East aka major basketball. The MVC and Big East are a different animal. No days off in the Big East like the MVC.

I know you are going to bring up tourney upsets by UNI, a good year by Drake a few years back, etc. But that's all they were...isolated good years. Those programs are far from major players in college hoops 99% of the time. I also know you are going to mention ISU beat Miami this year, but they were missing a starter which no one ever brings up and well before Miami became ranked. Other than that Miami win while they were down a starter, they really didn't do anything else that noteworthy and their record was nothing earth shattering. Creighton is a good team but McDermott is nearly their entire team and he won't have nearly as easy a time in the Big East as he did the MVC. They deserve their respect but let's not go crazy...the MVC is not a power conference.

Quote from: crgreen on May 11, 2013, 11:48:05 AM

He suspended junior center Jelani McCoy, and future team leading scorer Kris Johnson (son of Marques) - costing him a likely return to the Elite 8 his 2nd year at UCLA.

Confused. Didn't McCoy quit the team? Weren't he and KJ suspended for failing drug tests? Didn't Schea Cotton flunk out of school? Hard to see how that makes Lavin a disciplinarian.

========

On a related note, this is pretty bizarre, considering its from CA circa 1998. It sounds like me, circa two months ago:

"the Bruins look less like a cohesive unit than a careless NBA tryout camp ... the UCLA program has become a safe place for self-promotion, catering to large egos, high-maintenance talent, and the mini-mistakes of Coach Steve Lavin ... Lavin's disingenuous statements throughout the agonizing process, all the way through his groan-inducing news-conference performance on Sunday ....

the team's recent sloppy play signifies a sloppier attitude ... a chaotic half-court offense, its lax perimeter defense, Lavin's strained reactions to even the smallest second-guessing ...

In that context, McCoy's ever-increasing distance from the team and from its rules is a dark indicator for the future, because McCoy was not a bad person finally bounced for horrible crimes. McCoy is a smart, stubborn 20-year-old with the God-given talent to control basketball games, who didn't know any better and was never forced to know better. He wasn't a lost cause, not until midway through this season. These things do not happen in a vacuum."

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/17/sports/sp-20062

Johnson and McCoy were suspended.   Kris did his penance, met his reinsatement criteria, and returned to the team, becomeing all Pac 10 and the teams leading scorer as a senior.   Jelani, rather than serving his full suspension, did quit the team, and subsequently entered the NBA Draft.

Schea Cotton was never a disciplinary or actual "academic" problem.   He ran afoul of a 3 year persecutions from the NCAA clearinghouse, that refused, even after court decisions, to allow Schea to play.  It took a federal court ruling that the NCAA had denied the young man his rights, before the NCAA allowed him to play - not for UCLA where he first enrolled, or North Carolina-Charlotte were he tried again after winning a 2 year court battle, but at Alabama, 3 seasons later.   On both doctors and educators approval, Schea had been allowed to take his SAT's verbally (due to a learning disability).  Citing literally HUNDREDS of instances where the Clearinghouse had previously allowed such exceptions, the courts repeatedly ruled Schea should be eligible.  However, even under injunction against the NCAA, schools couldn't take a chance and admit/play him, as if the NCAA won a subsequent appeal, the schools could be penalized for allowing an ineligble player - potentially costing a school a full seasons record and revenue.

NCAA scrod the kid worse than Sanchez.

Johnson and McCoy were suspended.   Kris did his penance, met his reinsatement criteria, and returned to the team, becomeing all Pac 10 and the teams leading scorer as a senior.   Jelani, rather than serving his full suspension, did quit the team, and subsequently entered the NBA Draft.

According to LA Times in 1998, McCoy was suspended September thru December, missed 9 games, returned, played 15 and then quit.

"McCoy .... served a 10-week suspension earlier this season before being reinstated on Dec. 1. His first game back with the team was Dec. 30 against Illinois. ... During McCoy's nine-game suspension to start the season, UCLA was 8-1, using many of the freshmen players Lavin has refrained from playing since the return of McCoy and Kris Johnson, who was suspended for the first four games"

http://articles.latimes.com/1998/feb/16/sports/sp-19840

One cynic noted that

"McCoy's reinstatement wouldn't have looked so bad if it hadn't come only five days after North Carolina's huge front line had squashed Lavin's mini-Bruins, pounding them by 41 points in the Great Alaska Shootout."

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19971207&slug=2576600

The details of the McCoy saga are here. 

http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/jelani-mccoy

Schea Cotton was never a disciplinary or actual "academic" problem.   He ran afoul of a 3 year persecutions from the NCAA clearinghouse, that refused, even after court decisions, to allow Schea to play.  It took a federal court ruling that the NCAA had denied the young man his rights, before the NCAA allowed him to play - not for UCLA where he first enrolled, or North Carolina-Charlotte were he tried again after winning a 2 year court battle, but at Alabama, 3 seasons later.   On both doctors and educators approval, Schea had been allowed to take his SAT's verbally (due to a learning disability).  Citing literally HUNDREDS of instances where the Clearinghouse had previously allowed such exceptions, the courts repeatedly ruled Schea should be eligible.  However, even under injunction against the NCAA, schools couldn't take a chance and admit/play him, as if the NCAA won a subsequent appeal, the schools could be penalized for allowing an ineligble player - potentially costing a school a full seasons record and revenue.

Here I stand corrected. I read academically ineligible and thought it was while he was in school, rather than just another example of a Lavin recruit being declared ineligible by the NCAA.

Foad., you ok where we stand going into year 4 of the Lavin regime or you got someone else u want here?

" one cynic noted". 15 years ago?  Awesome

Foad., you ok

I'm fine, thanks for asking. I think Lavin has recruited a team that might be able overcome his obvious short comings and am looking forward to SJ winning its first NCAA tournament game since forever. Thunderbird is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of the dust bin of history, nearly, and I'm as giddy as a baby on a swing. That's absent the sort of implosion that has evidently occurred more than once in TGAP career. Because you'd be hard pressed name another coach who's had such a public and bizarre falling out with his star play a few weeks before the NCAA tournament, much less two star players. Same thing happens on opposite coasts in different centuries and only one common variable, it almost suggests that -- no, that would be blasphemy. Just an eerie coincidence, move along, nothing to see here.

Question for you: is it possible to offer mild criticism of the coach without that being interpreted as a demand for the formation of a search committee? Because for me it's like what Groucho said, I love my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth every once in a while.

Quote from: jr49 on May 11, 2013, 10:41:46 PM

Foad., you ok

I'm fine, thanks for asking. I think Lavin has recruited a team that might be able overcome his obvious short comings and am looking forward to SJ winning its first NCAA tournament game since forever. Thunderbird is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of the dust bin of history, nearly, and I'm as giddy as a baby on a swing. That's absent the sort of implosion that has evidently occurred more than once in TGAP career. Because you'd be hard pressed name another coach who's had such a public and bizarre falling out with his star play a few weeks before the NCAA tournament, much less two star players. Same thing happens on opposite coasts in different centuries and only one common variable, it almost suggests that -- no, that would be blasphemy. Just an eerie coincidence, move along, nothing to see here.

Question for you: is it possible to offer mild criticism of the coach without that being interpreted as a demand for the formation of a search committee? Because for me it's like what Groucho said, I love my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth every once in a while.

My answer to you is I get the feeling you can't wait for mishaps to occur, even ones that are the everyday average stuff that happens when you coaching a college hoops team. I think you take pleasure in ripping the guy. More pleasure then you get out of the team doing well. Now thats just what I get out of what you write, of course I can be wrong. You take the cigar out when you have something nice to say about coach? 

If people think Creighton will get the same competition from Nova, G'Town and Marquette as Bradley, SIU, and ISU then they are sorely mistaken. Creighton is not an athletic team...they are a skill team. A bunch of shooters and a few guys who can go inside effectively against MVC teams. Cincinnati was a mediocre Big East team and it took them everything they had just to barely beat them in the tourney. Let's remember that Creighton did not play a ranked team all year last year until they faced and lost to Duke in the tourney. One thing is for sure, it will be much tougher for them to crack the top 25 with much better competition. No more dominating their conference they are now the small fish in the big pond. It will be interesting to see how they respond to the new league. After McDermott and Gibbs leave they are in big trouble if they can't step up their recruiting big time.

Was just perusing a PC forum and boy are they scared of us lol...always nice to see. They thought we were just decent until they heard we got Jordan. I shouldn't say they are scared of "us" I guess I meant our potential and talent because we never know how it will pan out. I still feel like we are 1 pure shooter away from being a top 25 team but there are no excuses this year. Pointer needs to gain respect shooting the ball better. He seemed to get better towards the end. Hope it carries over.

Quote from: Foad on May 12, 2013, 10:42:37 AM

Quote from: jr49 on May 11, 2013, 10:41:46 PM

Foad., you ok

I'm fine, thanks for asking. I think Lavin has recruited a team that might be able overcome his obvious short comings and am looking forward to SJ winning its first NCAA tournament game since forever. Thunderbird is like a Phoenix rising from the ashes of the dust bin of history, nearly, and I'm as giddy as a baby on a swing. That's absent the sort of implosion that has evidently occurred more than once in TGAP career. Because you'd be hard pressed name another coach who's had such a public and bizarre falling out with his star play a few weeks before the NCAA tournament, much less two star players. Same thing happens on opposite coasts in different centuries and only one common variable, it almost suggests that -- no, that would be blasphemy. Just an eerie coincidence, move along, nothing to see here.

Question for you: is it possible to offer mild criticism of the coach without that being interpreted as a demand for the formation of a search committee? Because for me it's like what Groucho said, I love my cigar too, but I take it out of my mouth every once in a while.

My answer to you is I get the feeling you can't wait for mishaps to occur, even ones that are the everyday average stuff that happens when you coaching a college hoops team. I think you take pleasure in ripping the guy. More pleasure then you get out of the team doing well. Now thats just what I get out of what you write, of course I can be wrong. You take the cigar out when you have something nice to say about coach?

I've been following SJ a long time. I don't have to wait for mishaps to occur, they occur regularly and have my entire lifetime. I expect them and am rarely disappointed. I wouldn't say I take pleasure from them, will cop to relishing the disappointments they engender in the pollyannas out there.

I'd disagree that a coach suspending more than one star player on opposite coasts in different centuries is "the everyday average stuff that happens" to a college coach. It seems to me to very much extraordinary.

If people think Creighton will get the same competition from Nova, G'Town and Marquette as Bradley, SIU, and ISU then they are sorely mistaken.

That's fine but no one has even implied that they would be facing similar competition, much less outright said it.  Obviously their conference record would have likely been worse if they played in the Big East this year, 10-8 or 9-9 is my guess, and been a bubble team.  But they will feature the best player in the conference next year which will help with the transition.  This conference is losing 4 of it's top 6 overall programs.  It'll still be good, but not the monumental step up from the MVC that the old conference would have been.  They're not as good as STJ, GTown and Marquette, who I think will be the cream of the conference next year but better than SHU, Rutgers and DePaul.  IOW middle of the road with the other newbies, Providence and Nova.