St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8

  • 507 replies
  • 46206 views
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #320 on: November 08, 2013, 10:26:55 PM »
A reasonable question to ask is, if the talent level is as advertised and i truly believe  there is individual talent at a high level. Why does this team show little or no improvement in terms of basic basketball fundamentals?

 I'm beginning to worry that Lavin, while a great recruiter, is not up to Coaching at the level necessary. I hope I'm wrong because Steve is great for our school but, he needs to have his team show improvement this year.

Tonight's game was not the good start we all wanted.. At some point, these players and Coaches will have to show they can beat good teams consistently, not occasionally.

They played 1 game for crying out loud.  I agree they could played better but they were an underdog against a program that went to 14 straight NCAA's. 

Would you prefer them to open against Columbia at home and won by 25.  OK. 

The frustration lies with the fact that they have not gone to the NCAA's since 2011.   I get it.  So every loss is going to be dissected as if the world ended and they didn't improve?  Come on.  My point is they are not going to erase the bad taste after the last couple of years in 1 night, win or lose, so stop asking and making dumb posts after 1 game against a difficult opponent.

wisconsin was a difficult opponent..but not so difficult that they couldn't be beaten on a neutral court.

we were outscored by 27 points from the three point line.  our difficulties in this department that we had last year haven't been solved. 
we're a terrible three point scoring team.  our difficulties in this department that we had last year haven't been solved.
we can't hit layups or teardrops.  we had the same problem last year.
we couldn't rebound last year...we didn't rebound tonight.
we were poor on 50-50 balls.  we didn't have that problem last year.
we're an older team, but this team screams out with its regression.
the only thing we have going for us is a softer schedule than last year...so 20 wins are a virtual certainty.

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #321 on: November 08, 2013, 10:28:16 PM »
A reasonable question to ask is, if the talent level is as advertised and i truly believe  there is individual talent at a high level. Why does this team show little or no improvement in terms of basic basketball fundamentals?

 I'm beginning to worry that Lavin, while a great recruiter, is not up to Coaching at the level necessary. I hope I'm wrong because Steve is great for our school but, he needs to have his team show improvement this year.

Tonight's game was not the good start we all wanted.. At some point, these players and Coaches will have to show they can beat good teams consistently, not occasionally.

They played 1 game for crying out loud.  I agree they could played better but they were an underdog against a program that went to 14 straight NCAA's. 

Would you prefer them to open against Columbia at home and won by 25.  OK. 

The frustration lies with the fact that they have not gone to the NCAA's since 2011.   I get it.  So every loss is going to be dissected as if the world ended and they didn't improve?  Come on.  My point is they are not going to erase the bad taste after the last couple of years in 1 night, win or lose, so stop asking and making dumb posts after 1 game against a difficult opponent.

It's not the loss that is frustrating. We came out unprepared. That's coaching.

Oh everybody says that when you lose and another team plays well.  It can never be that the other team plays well it has to be "you're unprepared."

It is just a ready made excuse to say if SJU got beat bad early on. 

Tell me, what was our gameplan tonight?

Turn our heads on defense and not see the ball.

Double the post and allow open threes.

Foul with clock running down.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #322 on: November 08, 2013, 10:31:23 PM »
A reasonable question to ask is, if the talent level is as advertised and i truly believe  there is individual talent at a high level. Why does this team show little or no improvement in terms of basic basketball fundamentals?

 I'm beginning to worry that Lavin, while a great recruiter, is not up to Coaching at the level necessary. I hope I'm wrong because Steve is great for our school but, he needs to have his team show improvement this year.

Tonight's game was not the good start we all wanted.. At some point, these players and Coaches will have to show they can beat good teams consistently, not occasionally.

They played 1 game for crying out loud.  I agree they could played better but they were an underdog against a program that went to 14 straight NCAA's. 

Would you prefer them to open against Columbia at home and won by 25.  OK. 

The frustration lies with the fact that they have not gone to the NCAA's since 2011.   I get it.  So every loss is going to be dissected as if the world ended and they didn't improve?  Come on.  My point is they are not going to erase the bad taste after the last couple of years in 1 night, win or lose, so stop asking and making dumb posts after 1 game against a difficult opponent.

wisconsin was a difficult opponent..but not so difficult that they couldn't be beaten on a neutral court.

we were outscored by 27 points from the three point line.  our difficulties in this department that we had last year haven't been solved. 
we're a terrible three point scoring team.  our difficulties in this department that we had last year haven't been solved.
we can't hit layups or teardrops.  we had the same problem last year.
we couldn't rebound last year...we didn't rebound tonight.
we were poor on 50-50 balls.  we didn't have that problem last year.
we're an older team, but this team screams out with its regression.
the only thing we have going for us is a softer schedule than last year...so 20 wins are a virtual certainty.

I didn't say they couldn't be beaten but that does not mean it is dispositive of your theory that they were not prepared.  It is the easiest copout in t he world to a loss.

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #323 on: November 08, 2013, 10:32:37 PM »
It's really quite simple. This is a new conference. We have been a bottom feeder for most of the last 20 years. Yes, it's one game, but F that. It's about damn time we manned up and played ready, hard and well to start a season.

I hope their flight is delayed 5 hours so they f'n think about the egg they laid tonight.

The BE is in a down year. Don't expect STJ to rise up and fill that void. We aren't that kind of team. We need to beat up on garbage, and then maybe by mid winter, we'll focus and start playing hard.

Starting line up on Friday should be Jordan, Harrison, Sampson, Gift and Sanchez.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 10:33:51 PM by Poison »

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #324 on: November 08, 2013, 10:33:08 PM »
It is maddening how every single opponent goes off on us from beyond the arc meanwhile we hit 2.

I hope they enjoyed Mount Rushmore. 

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #325 on: November 08, 2013, 10:34:54 PM »
It's really quite simple. This is a new conference. We have been a bottom feeder for most of the last 20 years. Yes, it's one game, but F that. It's about damn time we manned up and played ready, hard and well to start a season.

I hope their flight is delayed 5 hours so they f'n think about the egg they laid tonight.

The BE is in a down year. Don't expect STJ to rise up and fill that void. We aren't that kind of team. We need to beat up on garbage, and then maybe by mid winter, we'll focus and start playing hard.

Starting line up on Friday should be Jordan, Harrison, Sampson, Gift and Sanchez.

Poison in mid season form!

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #326 on: November 08, 2013, 10:37:45 PM »
A reasonable question to ask is, if the talent level is as advertised and i truly believe  there is individual talent at a high level. Why does this team show little or no improvement in terms of basic basketball fundamentals?

 I'm beginning to worry that Lavin, while a great recruiter, is not up to Coaching at the level necessary. I hope I'm wrong because Steve is great for our school but, he needs to have his team show improvement this year.

Tonight's game was not the good start we all wanted.. At some point, these players and Coaches will have to show they can beat good teams consistently, not occasionally.

They played 1 game for crying out loud.  I agree they could played better but they were an underdog against a program that went to 14 straight NCAA's. 

Would you prefer them to open against Columbia at home and won by 25.  OK. 

The frustration lies with the fact that they have not gone to the NCAA's since 2011.   I get it.  So every loss is going to be dissected as if the world ended and they didn't improve?  Come on.  My point is they are not going to erase the bad taste after the last couple of years in 1 night, win or lose, so stop asking and making dumb posts after 1 game against a difficult opponent.

It's not the loss that is frustrating. We came out unprepared. That's coaching.

Oh everybody says that when you lose and another team plays well.  It can never be that the other team plays well it has to be "you're unprepared."

It is just a ready made excuse to say if SJU got beat bad early on. 

Tell me, what was our gameplan tonight?

Turn our heads on defense and not see the ball.

Double the post and allow open threes.

Foul with clock running down.

What was the game plan against FGCU last year? 

What was the game plan against ND at home?  Against UCONN at home?  How about Rutgers on the road?

All wins.  I couldn't tell you what the game plan was.  Nor do I care.

But if you are so certain that you can determine the game plan from minute 1 I want you to say it after EVERY GAME this year, win or loss.

So when Harrison scores 30 against a weak opponent they beat by a bunch I want you to tell me what the game plan was.

Here is my game plan.  Win the game.  If things are not going well make adjustments and hope they work because the guy on the other side is pretty damn good and he makes adjustments too.  And his Big 10 record is better then every Big 10 school out there since he is has been there.  And oh btw really hope it works because if it doesn't, even if you simply just lost a game, you can be accused of not being prepared by a bunch of posters on a message board....LOL!!!

MCNPA

  • *****
  • 5975
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #327 on: November 08, 2013, 10:43:20 PM »
A reasonable question to ask is, if the talent level is as advertised and i truly believe  there is individual talent at a high level. Why does this team show little or no improvement in terms of basic basketball fundamentals?

 I'm beginning to worry that Lavin, while a great recruiter, is not up to Coaching at the level necessary. I hope I'm wrong because Steve is great for our school but, he needs to have his team show improvement this year.

Tonight's game was not the good start we all wanted.. At some point, these players and Coaches will have to show they can beat good teams consistently, not occasionally.

They played 1 game for crying out loud.  I agree they could played better but they were an underdog against a program that went to 14 straight NCAA's. 

Would you prefer them to open against Columbia at home and won by 25.  OK. 

The frustration lies with the fact that they have not gone to the NCAA's since 2011.   I get it.  So every loss is going to be dissected as if the world ended and they didn't improve?  Come on.  My point is they are not going to erase the bad taste after the last couple of years in 1 night, win or lose, so stop asking and making dumb posts after 1 game against a difficult opponent.

It's not the loss that is frustrating. We came out unprepared. That's coaching.

Oh everybody says that when you lose and another team plays well.  It can never be that the other team plays well it has to be "you're unprepared."

It is just a ready made excuse to say if SJU got beat bad early on. 

Tell me, what was our gameplan tonight?

Game plan was to run and dictate tempo.  We just came out and got waaaay to far down for it to work.  We got the game back within 4 which means if we were closer, we might have even have had a big lead at that point.  Our biggest problem was our slow start, both on offense and defense.  I agree that this is a recurring problem though.  We figured out our game and played well for much of the game after we went down big, but it was not enough.

I didn't think they were amazingly talented.  They have a team that simply makes shots though. They don't miss them.  They come out and drill em.  They work hard to earn those shots as well.  This is a testament to Bo Ryan who runs a great system and recruits the appropriate plays to it. 

I'm not down on our team.  I think this is the best team we've had in a long while.  We did quite a few things wring though.  We should've pressed and trapped from the full court a lot more.  I said this before the game.  Make them use up shot clock and rush their offense as well as turn it over. 

We also stuck with our matchup zone too long in the first half.  It should have been yanked sooner.  We played much better man to man defense down the stretch and the matchup send killed us.  It wasn't working but we should have changed it sooner.

Our offense just started off atrocious.  Not much Lavin can do about this.  Jakarr started terribly as did Harrison and just about everybody else except Sanchez who got into foul trouble. 

Very disappointed that we couldn't close out more when it got to 4 points.  We should have had more awareness about us and learn to take over.  Overall not a horrible loss, but could hsve been a signature win.  Biggest issue is our horrible start.  Wisconsin was able to keep it from there.  Maybe Lavin should start by slowing the game down in the beginning and getting the player's relaxed before we turn up the tempo.  Just a thought. 

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #328 on: November 08, 2013, 10:50:06 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

MCNPA

  • *****
  • 5975
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #329 on: November 08, 2013, 10:54:47 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

Didn't Wisconsin sweep Ohio State last year? I know they beat Michigan as well, maybe swept em?   It doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing.  Good coach and consistently good team.  It doesn't make one team the dunce.  Are Beilein and Matta terrible coaches because they lost to Wisconsin?  No.  We just have fans that have irrational meltdowns at every turn.

Don't forget, they are preseason #21 and favored therefore expected to be the better team.  Watching the game, I didn't get the impression that they were much better than us.  Not at all.  Just thought they came out and executed better from the beginning that made us chase the rest of the game.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2013, 10:57:09 PM by MCNPA »

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #330 on: November 08, 2013, 10:59:24 PM »
It was a missed opportunity for an early solid win.  That's it.

 Same as when Michigan St lost to an unranked UCONN team last year on the Carrier, a team they probably would have run off the court 3 months later.  Or when Georgetown lost to Oregon tonight in South Korea.

Let me tell you if you watched UCONN with a ROOKIE coach  Kevin Ollie play a pre-season top 5 team in Michigan St including a future HOF in Tom Izzo you would be accusing Izzo of being Brian Mahoney.  Michigan St looked horrible.  Couldn't throw it in the ocean.  First game of the year on the Carrier.  But Mich St  ended up being a 3 seed in the NCAA's last year.

Regroup.  Plenty of big opportunities down the road.

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #331 on: November 08, 2013, 11:00:51 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

Didn't Wisconsin sweep Ohio State last year? I know they beat Michigan as well, maybe swept em?   It doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing.  Good coach and consistently good team.  It doesn't make one team the dunce.  Are Beilein and Matta terrible coaches because they lost to Wisconsin?  No.  We just have fans that have irrational meltdowns at every turn.

Don't forget, they are preseason #21 and favored therefore expected to be the better team.  Watching the game, I didn't get the impression that they were much better than us.  Not at all.  Just thought they came out and executed better from the beginning that made us chase the rest of the game.

Yes, I know that Wisconsin is a good program. Still, they lost a lot of experience after last season, and we returned everyone. That tells me that our guys aren't learning as fast as they should be.

Obekpa, Pointer, Branch etc. - all way behind their rankings. They should be further along than this. That is on the coach.

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #332 on: November 08, 2013, 11:05:33 PM »
It was a missed opportunity for an early solid win.  That's it.

 Same as when Michigan St lost to an unranked UCONN team last year on the Carrier, a team they probably would have run off the court 3 months later.  Or when Georgetown lost to Oregon tonight in South Korea.

Let me tell you if you watched UCONN with a ROOKIE coach  Kevin Ollie play a pre-season top 5 team in Michigan St including a future HOF in Tom Izzo you would be accusing Izzo of being Brian Mahoney.  Michigan St looked horrible.  Couldn't throw it in the ocean.  First game of the year on the Carrier.  But Mich St  ended up being a 3 seed in the NCAA's last year.

Regroup.  Plenty of big opportunities down the road.

Michigan State has earned the right to have a questionable pre season. We have one 4 years in a row under a new coach, and we've had one every single season since Louie retired.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #333 on: November 08, 2013, 11:07:53 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

Didn't Wisconsin sweep Ohio State last year? I know they beat Michigan as well, maybe swept em?   It doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing.  Good coach and consistently good team.  It doesn't make one team the dunce.  Are Beilein and Matta terrible coaches because they lost to Wisconsin?  No.  We just have fans that have irrational meltdowns at every turn.

Don't forget, they are preseason #21 and favored therefore expected to be the better team.  Watching the game, I didn't get the impression that they were much better than us.  Not at all.  Just thought they came out and executed better from the beginning that made us chase the rest of the game.

Yes, I know that Wisconsin is a good program. Still, they lost a lot of experience after last season, and we returned everyone. That tells me that our guys aren't learning as fast as they should be.

Obekpa, Pointer, Branch etc. - all way behind their rankings. They should be further along than this. That is on the coach.

It's one game, further ahead of what?  Wisconsin...

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #334 on: November 08, 2013, 11:09:07 PM »
It was a missed opportunity for an early solid win.  That's it.

 Same as when Michigan St lost to an unranked UCONN team last year on the Carrier, a team they probably would have run off the court 3 months later.  Or when Georgetown lost to Oregon tonight in South Korea.

Let me tell you if you watched UCONN with a ROOKIE coach  Kevin Ollie play a pre-season top 5 team in Michigan St including a future HOF in Tom Izzo you would be accusing Izzo of being Brian Mahoney.  Michigan St looked horrible.  Couldn't throw it in the ocean.  First game of the year on the Carrier.  But Mich St  ended up being a 3 seed in the NCAA's last year.

Regroup.  Plenty of big opportunities down the road.

Michigan State has earned the right to have a questionable pre season. We have one 4 years in a row under a new coach, and we've had one every single season since Louie retired.

Oh don't get me that excuse that because it happens to a HOF coach that gives him slack all that means is you are not a fan of Mich St, that's all. 

Again a copout excuse to continue complaining,

Poison

  • *****
  • 16896
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #335 on: November 08, 2013, 11:10:17 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

Didn't Wisconsin sweep Ohio State last year? I know they beat Michigan as well, maybe swept em?   It doesn't mean we don't know what we are doing.  Good coach and consistently good team.  It doesn't make one team the dunce.  Are Beilein and Matta terrible coaches because they lost to Wisconsin?  No.  We just have fans that have irrational meltdowns at every turn.

Don't forget, they are preseason #21 and favored therefore expected to be the better team.  Watching the game, I didn't get the impression that they were much better than us.  Not at all.  Just thought they came out and executed better from the beginning that made us chase the rest of the game.

Yes, I know that Wisconsin is a good program. Still, they lost a lot of experience after last season, and we returned everyone. That tells me that our guys aren't learning as fast as they should be.

Obekpa, Pointer, Branch etc. - all way behind their rankings. They should be further along than this. That is on the coach.

It's one game, further ahead of what?  Wisconsin...

They are top 50 recruits, and they aren't freshman. Tonight they were freshman.

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #336 on: November 08, 2013, 11:17:27 PM »
I noticed Obekpa chirping at refs a lot tonight. Last year he also did it occasionally.  Officials as a result seem prone to not give him benefit of doubt on calls. Hope he maintains his cool.

Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #337 on: November 08, 2013, 11:18:44 PM »
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.

Great recruiter?  He has not signed a front court player in two recruiting seasons to date.

Moose

  • *****
  • 12322
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #338 on: November 08, 2013, 11:24:11 PM »
I noticed Obekpa chirping at refs a lot tonight. Last year he also did it occasionally.  Officials as a result seem prone to not give him benefit of doubt on calls. Hope he maintains his cool.

Dom shouldn't be immune to that either. They both chirp more than Dee
Remember who broke the Slice news

paultzman

  • *****
  • 16981
Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #339 on: November 08, 2013, 11:28:54 PM »
I noticed Obekpa chirping at refs a lot tonight. Last year he also did it occasionally.  Officials as a result seem prone to not give him benefit of doubt on calls. Hope he maintains his cool.

Dom shouldn't be immune to that either. They both chirp more than Dee

True