St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8

Quote from: newsman13 on November 09, 2013, 05:19:54 PM

Quote from: simplyred on November 09, 2013, 09:25:04 AM

At least we have expectations again.  Next step is to realize some of these expectations.

A few thoughts: 
--We could have used a few 3's from Marco.  Whether he would have given it to us remains to be seen.  I think he will shoot at a decent clip.  Unfortunately, last night we really needed defense and Max would have been a liability on the floor ( not that the guys out there were doing very well).
--The flat start was a problem.  I think it was more a byproduct of tightness than lack of preparation. 
--The 3 pt defense remains a big problem.  Overall footwork on defense seems bad.  Guys are off balance, allowing the opponent to get around them or open at the three point line too easily.  I would like to see us press on occasion.  Late in the game, we caught them by surprise and they had to call a timeout on one trip.  If we switched up defenses a bit more, we could keep the opponent off balance a bit.
--Sanchez scored our first 5 points but never scored again.  That really hurt us.  He has to remain a part of the offense.  Also, Gift scored and got some boards in the first half but saw little action the rest of the game.   He could have helped.
--I think Branch will contribute but right now it seems clear that Jordan will be the starting pg ( I was wrong in my earlier opinion that Branch would start over him); and Dom should start.  Forget about the 3 guard lineup.
--Sampson looked great going to the basket.  His athleticism is phenomenal.  He should work on his 3 pt shot in practice and show it at pre-draft camps and the combine.  Better to leave the scouts guessing rather than to erase all doubt.
--Sanchez displayed a little bit of every skill it takes to be an NBA draft pick.  If he can stay out of foul trouble and give us more in each game, he will be drafted in the first round.
--Rysheed, please take control of the offense.  You've displayed the ability to do so.  Don't defer to the upperclassmen because you are the freshman.  PG is your job.
--Dlo can score.

first of all, this wasn't the first game of the season for us...it was game eight.  The coaches had this team completely unprepared.   

So if the team looses, they are unprepared? Lets give some credit to the Wisconsin players', they played better than us, period. Coach didn't tell Jordan to shoot 2-9. He didn't tell Sanchez, Jordan, and Branch combined to score and go to the free throw line less than Dukan. Who prior to last night, scored a total of 11 points his first two seasons. Wisconsin is a jump shooting team and they made more free throws than we attempted. They're players' made plays, ours didn't, end of story. Its a great learning experience for our team, lets learn from it and move on. 

We have learned from it. We've learned that we're not very good.

 We suck. Cancel the season, and Lavins contract... Bring back Mahoney.  Doomed..  Bobre was right, should have hired Mark Jackson.

Should have recruited Severe over Jordan because he made a few shots last night.. Did I miss anything? 

 Oh D-lo should have transferred to Baylor... Definitely not coming back.. oh wait.

 Poll question:

  Who is dumber?

  STJ players?
  STJ coaches?
  STJ fans?

We suck. Cancel the season, and Lavins contract... Bring back Mahoney.  Doomed..  Bobre was right, should have hired Mark Jackson.

Should have recruited Severe over Jordan because he made a few shots last night.. Did I miss anything? 

 Oh D-lo should have transferred to Baylor... Definitely not coming back.. oh wait.

 Poll question:

  Who is dumber?

  STJ players?
  STJ coaches?
  STJ fans?

How many times can I vote?

Quote from: boo3 on November 09, 2013, 09:23:51 PM

We suck. Cancel the season, and Lavins contract... Bring back Mahoney.  Doomed..  Bobre was right, should have hired Mark Jackson.

Should have recruited Severe over Jordan because he made a few shots last night.. Did I miss anything? 

 Oh D-lo should have transferred to Baylor... Definitely not coming back.. oh wait.

 Poll question:

  Who is dumber?

  STJ players?
  STJ coaches?
  STJ fans?

How many times can I vote?

  As many as you want...

We suck. Cancel the season, and Lavins contract... Bring back Mahoney.  Doomed..  Bobre was right, should have hired Mark Jackson.

Should have recruited Severe over Jordan because he made a few shots last night.. Did I miss anything? 

 Oh D-lo should have transferred to Baylor... Definitely not coming back.. oh wait.

 Poll question:

  Who is dumber?

  STJ players?
  STJ coaches?
  STJ fans?

We said this last year and the year before, and everything turned out, oh wait, nevermind.

And I'm not asking for Mahoney to return, just pointing out that Lavin's coaching is similar. And it is.

 One game into the season... one game.

 If we don't make the sweet 16 this season, I will be right on the bad joke bandwagon with the rest of you guys.

Sweet 16 or bust as far as I'm concerned.  Crying after game one makes you look clueless though, sorry..  On the other hand, I've seen enough evidence of this over the past few years on this board,  that I've pretty much given up hope about having actual basketball conversation on here as opposed to pity parties and bad jokes about guys dribbling in circles.

 So go on and do your thing... I'll keep reading for the laughs and the occasion pearls of wisdom from a handful of posters.  Engaging in any realistic conversation about St. John's basketball, well, that chicken flew the coup a while ago..

 Enjoy the season... Although I think that is virtually impossible for 80% of you, regardless of outcome..

As fans, its easy to get on the coaches. We've been down as a program for so long we're starving for a good team. Many of you state how talented and deep we are, and I'm not saying we are not, but elite 8 talent? Lets be realistic here, if we were really that talented, why aren't we ranked? Why have some publications have us not even making the NCAA tournament? ESPN has us as a 11 seed. Why are we picked to finish no better than fifth in the Big East? It's not the coach, he's has shown was he could do with talented teams. Maybe, just maybe....we are not as talented as many would like to think. Jordan is still our only penetrator. D'lo is still our only shooter. Offensively, we only go four deep.

All that being said we are good enough to make the NCAA tournament and win a game or two. But in order to do that, our guards must play better on both ends of the floor and Sanchez and Jordan has to be aggressive offensively. Once we shore up our defense and rebounding, we'll be alright.

Answer to questions in your first paragraph is you are right we aren't talented enough to be ranked as we are not talented enough to overcome lavin's coaching. You are right he won at UCLA-with oodles of NBA talent-at St. John's not so much. That said that doesn't make him not a good overall coach which I think he is, just maybe not good enough to be highly nationally ranked. I am quite satisfied with Lavin as our coach and still think we can have a very good season but it is hard for me to understand our some of our fans cannot watch some of our games and not notice some of Lavin's in game coaching lacking in areas that prevent him from being considered a good bench coach. Other even lesser teams always seem to get more easy baskets than us whereas our guys have to make great offensive moves and make tough shots all too often.

I am not going to go back through 15 pages of thread but why did Hooper play 5 minutes and one thing - this team is gong no where as long as Phil Greene plays significant minutes

this team is gong no where as long as Phil Greene plays significant minutes

Both runs at Wisconsin came with Greene in the game, at the end of the first half and midway through the second. It may be that that was because the entity Phil Greene was in the game or it may be that it was because when Greene was in they played a two guard line up so Pointer was in the game. Hard to tell, although they looked uncomfortable in the 3 guard line up always. I'm by no means a Greene fan but he'd be a serviceable 2 guard on team without so many glaring deficiencies. No way he should play over Jordan, so to that extent I'd agree that if he gets significant minutes it's bad.   

Quote from: pmg911 on November 10, 2013, 08:00:25 AM

this team is gong no where as long as Phil Greene plays significant minutes

Both runs at Wisconsin came with Greene in the game, at the end of the first half and midway through the second. It may be that that was because the entity Phil Greene was in the game or it may be that it was because when Greene was in they played a two guard line up so Pointer was in the game. Hard to tell, although they looked uncomfortable in the 3 guard line up always. I'm by no means a Greene fan but he'd be a serviceable 2 guard on team without so many glaring deficiencies. No way he should play over Jordan, so to that extent I'd agree that if he gets significant minutes it's bad.   

foad is correct , I noticed both runs came with  PG4 in the game. But you could see jordan is already a driving machine once he gets his feet under him, he's gonna be special

Phil Greene is not good but as long as he is not running the point I am happy. Best I can say about him is I hardly noticed him. Was not one of the reasons we lost anyway

Just want to be the first to throw this out there. Wagner is not bad. They are going to give us a game.

Quote from: pmg911 on November 10, 2013, 08:00:25 AM

this team is gong no where as long as Phil Greene plays significant minutes

Both runs at Wisconsin came with Greene in the game, at the end of the first half and midway through the second. It may be that that was because the entity Phil Greene was in the game or it may be that it was because when Greene was in they played a two guard line up so Pointer was in the game. Hard to tell, although they looked uncomfortable in the 3 guard line up always. I'm by no means a Greene fan but he'd be a serviceable 2 guard on team without so many glaring deficiencies. No way he should play over Jordan, so to that extent I'd agree that if he gets significant minutes it's bad.   

I believe you are right re: comfort level...think Greene's presence was more of coincidence (or as you suggest, a function of 2 guard)...3 guard can work (not sure if it is our best option given rebounding deficiencies) but there needs to be an on floor leader and there isn't right now...

Phil is in the game when we have our two runs and he's no good?  Results are what counts-you can talk all the smack you want but if he was there for the positive runs- why isn't he much good?  Better results when he's in the game. He should be the third guard at this point in the season. 

The way we lost the game was the most frustrating part... We were never in the game and could not make a stop without a foul. The offense was terrible and our passers couldn't pass and shooters couldn't shoot.

...that being said it is game 1  of a long season. Lavin has tried fixing some of his weaknesses by upgrading his coaching staff. The fact that the team is being tinkered with and the roster change over again can explain for some of the reasons why this team may struggle early. The difference between Lavin's first year and his this year is that this schedule does not give out many do overs. You can lose to Fordham and run the table in in the old BE. This team cannot do that with this schedule I think.

I'm one of the biggest Lavin supporters around but it does get tiresome to see teams get so many wide open 3's.  There's a lot of talent on the court but we ain't gonna win a lot of significant games on talent alone. 

Does anybody remember how irrelevant we were since jarvis, Lav has come in took us to the tourney. Had his first recruit go top the NBA after one year, lost his best asst to an NBA head coaching spot, had to deal with cancer, beat out Kansas for Jakarr, beat out temple and ucla for Jordan, has us mentioned with top recruits all over the country (granted some have not made here or went elsewhere), led school into nice UA deal when we were an afterthought with nike and is leading us into the new Big East with Fox. After one game in south dakota against a good big ten team its a joke that some fans are jumping ship.