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St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8

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goredmen

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #340 on: November 08, 2013, 11:33:18 PM »
I think the staff will realize that pressing is the way to go from here on out. Remember the 10-11 team got off to a rocky start that included a loss to Fordham but beat Duke and Pitt thanks in large part to the press. This team has the length, athleticism and depth needed to press for 40 minutes a game. I think (hope) the staff realizes this and will get the press going sooner rather than later
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desco80

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #341 on: November 08, 2013, 11:39:31 PM »
If we had pressed against this Wisconsin team we would've lost by 20.
We just need to guard the 3 better.   That's why we lost this game. 
Everything else was nearly equal, turnovers, rebounds, assists, fg% ... But we shot 15% from 3 and they shot 30%.    That's the game. 
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Linda Mirabella

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #342 on: November 08, 2013, 11:41:20 PM »
In the wake of a disappointing performance there were a few positives.

The court was well lit.
The uniforms were spotless
There was a big crowd to watch the game

But in all seriousness

Jakar didn't force the issue as much and his shot selection was better
Rysheed is going to be a good one.
Harrison, while a bit late, showed that he has the ability to be an offensive force
Sanchez shows potential

However....

Is coach Lavin out to set a eww NCAA record for three point shooting by opponents.  His match up zone is a joke.  It will keep many inferior teams in the game.  His three guard starting line up didn't do the job, defensively, or offensively.  Please bring Branch off the bench.  And speaking of the bench, if anyone here believes that Hooper will contribute at this level, 0-3 should convince you of otherwise.

We were schooled tonight by a well coached team.  We had superior talent, depth, athleticism and experience but were still rarely in the game.  If you like helter skelter, one on one basketball then you should enjoy this team. But if you enjoy a team that is strong in fundimentals, shooting and unselfish play then find another team to root for.

I know, it's early in the season so give Lavin a pass.  A pass?  He has the most experienced and deepest team in college basketball. And the reality is that while we certainly seemed to play a better second half, much of that success was the individual effort by DLo, who were it not or his 28 points, it would have been a 30 point game

I still have hope that our season will not be a wash out anywhere will match up well with many of our upcoming cupcakes, errrrr opponents , and I remember a few years ago when Lavin, after an embarrassing game against Fordham righted the ship and the season turned into a most exciting one. 
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Tiznow

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #343 on: November 09, 2013, 12:21:32 AM »
Lavin's worst coaching move was scheduling this game. 

On the other hand perhaps this prepares them for the Syracuse game in five weeks.

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Poison

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #344 on: November 09, 2013, 12:26:42 AM »
Quote from: Tiznow on November 09, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
Lavin's worst coaching move was scheduling this game. 

On the other hand perhaps this prepares them for the Syracuse game in five weeks.



Syracuse is going to bat us around like little bunny rabbits.
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boo3

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #345 on: November 09, 2013, 12:27:52 AM »
 Step away from the ledge, Poison...
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goredmen

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #346 on: November 09, 2013, 12:36:44 AM »
Quote from: Poison on November 09, 2013, 12:26:42 AM
Quote from: Tiznow on November 09, 2013, 12:21:32 AM
Lavin's worst coaching move was scheduling this game. 

On the other hand perhaps this prepares them for the Syracuse game in five weeks.



Syracuse is going to bat us around like little bunny rabbits.

Especially if our zone offense is as motionless as it was last year
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kingofk1ngs

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #347 on: November 09, 2013, 01:11:48 AM »
This game was unwatchable with all of those foul calls.
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nudginator59

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #348 on: November 09, 2013, 02:30:17 AM »
This game was  unwatchable because the johnnies weren't prepares for this game....they were never in it to begin with.
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Cougar O' Malley
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Celtics11

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #349 on: November 09, 2013, 03:14:56 AM »
Quote from: Poison on November 08, 2013, 10:50:06 PM
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.
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Quote from: Poison on November 08, 2013, 10:50:06 PM
A great system beats greater talent. This team doesn't know what it's doing, and that means that the coach doesn't know what he's doing. Great recruiter. Bad coach.
If Bo Ryan coached our team and Steve Lavin coached Wisconsin last night we win by 20. Which means Lavin has recruited well enough to beat a good Wisky team by 20 but he just cannot coach them to do it. Whitesell new so I will exclude him but at this point have to question the entire staff. What happened to the majority of our fan base proclaiming 4 years ago when Lavin came in and recruited up a storm and led Norm's players to an NCAA berth that we were going to enjoy pay back and the beat down we were going to administer to all those teams that have been kicking our a$$ for years? It seems like we are still as Norm labeled us that 'little school in Queens" still just trying to compete with the big boys. Oh well, maybe we can stay within 20 of the Cuse when we play them on the road at MSG.
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redstorm212

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #350 on: November 09, 2013, 05:23:38 AM »
Some of you need to take a deep breath and step away from the computer screen.

We lost by 11 to the #21 ranked team in the country in the first game of the season. It was competitive. It was a 2 possession game late in the 2nd half. As with most season openers, many of our weaknesses were exposed. The defense was putrid, and we struggled on offense out of the gate. After the 33-15 start we outscored them by a decent margin for the rest of the game.

It doesn't mean Lavin is a horrible coach, or that we were unprepared. Wisconsin was just better last night, and IMO a bad matchup for us, especially for our first game. This should not have been the first game of the year.

Also, the fouls are absurd. If this is allowed to continue, even if we end up benefiting from it, it will take away a lot of the enjoyment from the games.
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Linda Mirabella

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #351 on: November 09, 2013, 07:58:35 AM »
Quote from: redstorm212 on November 09, 2013, 05:23:38 AM
Some of you need to take a deep breath and step away from the computer screen.

We lost by 11 to the #21 ranked team in the country in the first game of the season. It was competitive. It was a 2 possession game late in the 2nd half. As with most season openers, many of our weaknesses were exposed. The defense was putrid, and we struggled on offense out of the gate. After the 33-15 start we outscored them by a decent margin for the rest of the game.

It doesn't mean Lavin is a horrible coach, or that we were unprepared. Wisconsin was just better last night, and IMO a bad matchup for us, especially for our first game. This should not have been the first game of the year.

Also, the fouls are absurd. If this is allowed to continue, even if we end up benefiting from it, it will take away a lot of the enjoyment from the games.

We may have come within 4 but the game could still be labeled as uncompetitive. Did we ever realy challenge to where you felt like we would win the game? Was Max Hooper, if in fact he is a legit D1 player ever utilized with a set play or even a kick out? When we started to come back, was it a good coaching move to go back to a zone as Wis. nailed three after three? We're adjustments made in the first half to get Harrison more involved in the offense?  Add that to the fact that we are the most experienced team in the country, with the exception of Jordan who is an exceptional talent, and the fact that only Kentucky (with 9) and Michigan (with 7) may be two of only a few to have more top 100 recruits then we do (6), then what about ths game was well coached?  When Lavin was hired, his rhetoric was competing for a National Championship, not hoping to compete with fringe top 20 teams. It's time for the excuses to stop.  This team is too deep, talented and EXPERIENCED to not be winning big NOW.
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Foad

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #352 on: November 09, 2013, 08:20:34 AM »
Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 09, 2013, 07:58:35 AM
Was Max Hooper, if in fact he is a legit D1 player ever utilized with a set play or even a kick out?

Exactly. Had we run more set plays for Max Hooper we might have pulled this one out.
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redmen4life

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #353 on: November 09, 2013, 08:47:59 AM »
the problem that i have is that when we've lost under Lavin's tenure, we've lost b/c of the same reason over and over again.  slow start, lack of 3 point defense, and we can't hit the three.  and this is just not a problem against top teams as evidenced by our performance against d2 SF...

i think we'll do better, but i can't believe that in year 4 we're still having the same issue.
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Linda Mirabella

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #354 on: November 09, 2013, 08:53:11 AM »
Quote from: Foad on November 09, 2013, 08:20:34 AM
Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 09, 2013, 07:58:35 AM
Was Max Hooper, if in fact he is a legit D1 player ever utilized with a set play or even a kick out?

Exactly. Had we run more set plays for Max Hooper we might have pulled this one out.

We may still not have " pulled this one out"  but we certainly would have improved upon a miserable 2-13 from three point land.  Being down 18 points in the first  10 minutes of a game certainly has that unprepared look about it.
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DoodyNY33

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #355 on: November 09, 2013, 09:20:40 AM »
Fans need to stop with the whole "we got beat by a less talented team." We on this board after been saying this for 2 years. If they keep losing to "inferior teams", then you know what? It means we overrate our own guys.

Listen, they lost to a very good Wisconsin team and let's be honest ... a better coach than our own. It was a chance to make a statement, but our team didn't pull it off. So fix the issues (bad long range shooting, inability to defend the deep ball) and win some games against a pathetic OCC schedule.
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simplyred

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #356 on: November 09, 2013, 09:25:04 AM »
At least we have expectations again.  Next step is to realize some of these expectations.

A few thoughts: 
--We could have used a few 3's from Marco.  Whether he would have given it to us remains to be seen.  I think he will shoot at a decent clip.  Unfortunately, last night we really needed defense and Max would have been a liability on the floor ( not that the guys out there were doing very well).
--The flat start was a problem.  I think it was more a byproduct of tightness than lack of preparation. 
--The 3 pt defense remains a big problem.  Overall footwork on defense seems bad.  Guys are off balance, allowing the opponent to get around them or open at the three point line too easily.  I would like to see us press on occasion.  Late in the game, we caught them by surprise and they had to call a timeout on one trip.  If we switched up defenses a bit more, we could keep the opponent off balance a bit.
--Sanchez scored our first 5 points but never scored again.  That really hurt us.  He has to remain a part of the offense.  Also, Gift scored and got some boards in the first half but saw little action the rest of the game.   He could have helped.
--I think Branch will contribute but right now it seems clear that Jordan will be the starting pg ( I was wrong in my earlier opinion that Branch would start over him); and Dom should start.  Forget about the 3 guard lineup.
--Sampson looked great going to the basket.  His athleticism is phenomenal.  He should work on his 3 pt shot in practice and show it at pre-draft camps and the combine.  Better to leave the scouts guessing rather than to erase all doubt.
--Sanchez displayed a little bit of every skill it takes to be an NBA draft pick.  If he can stay out of foul trouble and give us more in each game, he will be drafted in the first round.
--Rysheed, please take control of the offense.  You've displayed the ability to do so.  Don't defer to the upperclassmen because you are the freshman.  PG is your job.
--Dlo can score.
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Foad

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #357 on: November 09, 2013, 09:28:57 AM »
Quote from: Linda Mirabella on November 09, 2013, 08:53:11 AM
We may still not have " pulled this one out"  but we certainly would have improved upon a miserable 2-13 from three point land. 

Hooper was 0 for 1 from the field. Giving him more shots would not have certainly improved anything other than Wisconsin's prospects.



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desco80

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #358 on: November 09, 2013, 09:46:13 AM »
I hate to be the optimist but some of you seem to have forgotten that st johns was expected to lose this game.   
We didn't take a step backward, we lost to a team that pundits, d-1 coaches, and the odds-makers all said were better than us.   

Outside of 20 or so people on our own message boards, we we're not expected to win this game.   And, luckily for us we have maybe 3 games for the rest oft he season against teams as good as Wisconsin; Syracuse and possibly the 2 with Marquette.   So as it stands now, we are par for the course. 
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paultzman

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Re: St. John's vs Wisconsin 11/8
« Reply #359 on: November 09, 2013, 09:58:33 AM »
Quote from: desco80 on November 09, 2013, 09:46:13 AM
I hate to be the optimist but some of you seem to have forgotten that st johns was expected to lose this game.   
We didn't take a step backward, we lost to a team that pundits, d-1 coaches, and the odds-makers all said were better than us.   

Outside of 20 or so people on our own message boards, we we're not expected to win this game.   And, luckily for us we have maybe 3 games for the rest oft he season against teams as good as Wisconsin; Syracuse and possibly the 2 with Marquette.   So as it stands now, we are par for the course. 

I did not expect us to win, but did think we would better compete and show improvement, especially on defense. Hopefully this is a work in progress.
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