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Head coaches Post Louie

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newsman13

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2015, 03:44:26 PM »
Quote from: weathermannyc on February 09, 2015, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: boo3 on February 08, 2015, 09:25:49 PM
Quote from: weathermannyc on February 08, 2015, 09:11:54 PM
Quote from: boo3 on February 05, 2015, 04:02:45 PM
Exactly.... Baylor had players murder each other and a coach cover it up.... they bounced back just fine.. 

They also pay players.

 Amazing that they don't get caught too, huh... We get caught for paying a crappy back up center $300 a week. ...go figure

Their players don't hold press conferences to tell the world about the payments.

That's because most college president don't throw players' stuff on the street because they got some pussy.
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2015, 03:45:47 PM »
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 09, 2015, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 09, 2015, 01:00:43 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 08, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
Loved Marcus too but he would be getting ripped on this board nowadays for his mediocre field goal shooting percentages and abysmal 3 point shooting percentages.  Is perception reality?

1st year      - 38% from the field and 28% from three
2nd year   -  42% from the field and 30% from three

Hatten was truly a one man show and the more you shoot and the more the defense keys on stopping you, the worse your % will be. That is pretty obvious.

Also obvious is that Hatten is way better than Phil Greene, becuase we all know that is where you were going with this. If you can't  see that it is not close I don't know what to tell you anymore.

Marcus Hatten was an excellent basketball player that I enjoyed watching very much. My first post said that I "loved" him.  I'm quite sure that I've never typed one negative word about him in my life. Truth is,  I've had nary a negative word to say about the over whelming majority of the unpaid student athletes that represent our university.  I might point out underwhelming specifics about a particular game/stat or discuss what I feel could use improvement in their play  Ricky Torres, Grady Reynolds and Abe Keita spring to mind as rare exceptions.  However, I'm sure you would agree that the general tenure of my posting is positive and complimentary of all our players.

Marcus Hatten was here for two years.  He took us to the dance in one and won the Nit in the other.  So the fan base is in love with him.  Hence the Ronald Reagan analogy. Hilton, Prez, JB1 and 2 and Hardy boyz took us to the dance so we love them too.  If the current crop of seniors don't dance, they'll forever be remembered as garbage.  That's the way it works around here and that's human nature.

The fact remains that Hatten shot 38% from the field and 28% from 3 during his Ncaa run and he's canonized.  30% from three his second year. To say that a player is terrible and post stats to prove why he's terrible than turn around and say that a player is great with the same or worse stats, is hypocritical. Perhaps in the future just say that you like a player because he has a more well rounded game or "just because" or because he was on a team that made the Ncaa tournament or because he has an aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke or because he tried to fight Patrick Ewing or because his socks are appropriately low.  Don't cite stats at all...because you can't have it both ways.

I'm not comparing players.  I'm just pointing out what I feel is an interesting observation about human nature.

I prefer the eye test  as certain statscan be misleading. Stats tell a story, just not the whole story.

His senor year Hatten as the leading scorer on an NIT championship averaged 22.2 on 42% shooting
Greene the 4th leading scorer on a TBD NIT team is averaging 12 points on 41% shooting

In his junior year Hatten averaged 20 on 38% shooting as the leading scorer on an NCAA tourney team
In his junior year as the 6th leading scorer on an embarassing NIT team Green averaged just under 7 and a half while shooting 39%

So in this case the stats back up the eye test.
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2015, 03:59:09 PM »
Speaking of eye test vs Stats, the SJU player that Greene most reminds me of is someone  Fun pointed out in Greene's frosh season Kevin Williams. Both were shooting guards that were forced to play out of position for a part of their SJU careers. They both were about the same size and both were best shooting long twos. Now in the case of Williams there was no three and he was a way better defender than Greene.
Where the comparison falls off the rails is for his career Williams was  53% SHOOTER. 
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 04:00:10 PM by we are sju »
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cjfish

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #43 on: February 09, 2015, 04:25:31 PM »
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 09, 2015, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 09, 2015, 01:00:43 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 08, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
Loved Marcus too but he would be getting ripped on this board nowadays for his mediocre field goal shooting percentages and abysmal 3 point shooting percentages.  Is perception reality?

1st year      - 38% from the field and 28% from three
2nd year   -  42% from the field and 30% from three


Hatten was a scorer, not a great % shooter.  Someone has to score and on a mediocre  team
Hatten was truly a one man show and the more you shoot and the more the defense keys on stopping you, the worse your % will be. That is pretty obvious.

Also obvious is that Hatten is way better than Phil Greene, becuase we all know that is where you were going with this. If you can't  see that it is not close I don't know what to tell you anymore.

Marcus Hatten was an excellent basketball player that I enjoyed watching very much. My first post said that I "loved" him.  I'm quite sure that I've never typed one negative word about him in my life. Truth is,  I've had nary a negative word to say about the over whelming majority of the unpaid student athletes that represent our university.  I might point out underwhelming specifics about a particular game/stat or discuss what I feel could use improvement in their play  Ricky Torres, Grady Reynolds and Abe Keita spring to mind as rare exceptions.  However, I'm sure you would agree that the general tenure of my posting is positive and complimentary of all our players.

Marcus Hatten was here for two years.  He took us to the dance in one and won the Nit in the other.  So the fan base is in love with him.  Hence the Ronald Reagan analogy. Hilton, Prez, JB1 and 2 and Hardy boyz took us to the dance so we love them too.  If the current crop of seniors don't dance, they'll forever be remembered as garbage.  That's the way it works around here and that's human nature.

The fact remains that Hatten shot 38% from the field and 28% from 3 during his Ncaa run and he's canonized.  30% from three his second year. To say that a player is terrible and post stats to prove why he's terrible than turn around and say that a player is great with the same or worse stats, is hypocritical. Perhaps in the future just say that you like a player because he has a more well rounded game or "just because" or because he was on a team that made the Ncaa tournament or because he has an aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke or because he tried to fight Patrick Ewing or because his socks are appropriately low.  Don't cite stats at all...because you can't have it both ways.

I'm not comparing players.  I'm just pointing out what I feel is an interesting observation about human nature


Marcus believed in the old axiom, "shoot to get hot".  On a mediocre team you need someone who can put it up often.  A volume shooter and scorer with confidence.  In this way he is similar to Harrison.
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Celtics11

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #44 on: February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM »
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:31:33 PM by Celtics11 »
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TONYD3

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2015, 06:34:13 PM »
Never understood why Hatten didn't get a chance. He didnt even  go to camp with an NBA team?
« Last Edit: February 09, 2015, 06:51:18 PM by TONYD3 »
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braintrust

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2015, 07:14:33 PM »
My Top Five...

1. Fran. He brought Riverside Church to Utopia Parkway. Artest, Barkley, Glover, Jessie. He handed the keys to Jarvis, who many pointed out, took Fran's team to the Elite 8 and his own team to night court. Fran was the best recruiter.
2. Dunlap. He took Norm's team to the NCAA. From what we've seen of Lavin's coaching, there is no way Lavin would have taken that team to the NCAA by himself. Best x's and o's guy we've ever had.
3. Jarvis. Only because the other choices are poor at this point. Best x and o guy after Dunlap. The laziness, the Deuce, and all of it have been covered.
4. Norm. True he was a poor game coach, and had poor resources to work with. But, the team Dunlap took to the NCAAs was all Norm's. Norm also had Sean Kilpatrick and Ronald Roberts coming here. If Norm had Dunlap, different story.
5. Mahoney. When Fran had his first meeting w the team, most guys showed up on time, the others straggled in w Wendys and McDonalds bags and headphones. There was no weight training program. recruited some good kids; Lopez, Postell, Barrett. He and Norm are probably the worst game day coaches, or game preparation coaches.
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salty dog

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2015, 07:34:40 PM »
Quote from: newsman13 on February 09, 2015, 03:44:26 PM
Quote from: weathermannyc on February 09, 2015, 03:35:40 PM
Quote from: boo3 on February 08, 2015, 09:25:49 PM
Quote from: weathermannyc on February 08, 2015, 09:11:54 PM
Quote from: boo3 on February 05, 2015, 04:02:45 PM
Exactly.... Baylor had players murder each other and a coach cover it up.... they bounced back just fine.. 

They also pay players.

 Amazing that they don't get caught too, huh... We get caught for paying a crappy back up center $300 a week. ...go figure

Their players don't hold press conferences to tell the world about the payments.

That's because most college president don't throw players' stuff on the street because they got some pussy.

I guess Harrington was calling in the "Holier than thou card"
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prjohnnies

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2015, 07:48:07 PM »
I thought Kilpatrick didn't come because of concerns about PT with all the 2's and 3's we had.
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carmineabbatiello

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2015, 11:00:18 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on February 09, 2015, 03:45:47 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 09, 2015, 02:57:27 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 09, 2015, 01:00:43 PM
Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 08, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
Loved Marcus too but he would be getting ripped on this board nowadays for his mediocre field goal shooting percentages and abysmal 3 point shooting percentages.  Is perception reality?

1st year      - 38% from the field and 28% from three
2nd year   -  42% from the field and 30% from three

Hatten was truly a one man show and the more you shoot and the more the defense keys on stopping you, the worse your % will be. That is pretty obvious.

Also obvious is that Hatten is way better than Phil Greene, becuase we all know that is where you were going with this. If you can't  see that it is not close I don't know what to tell you anymore.

Marcus Hatten was an excellent basketball player that I enjoyed watching very much. My first post said that I "loved" him.  I'm quite sure that I've never typed one negative word about him in my life. Truth is,  I've had nary a negative word to say about the over whelming majority of the unpaid student athletes that represent our university.  I might point out underwhelming specifics about a particular game/stat or discuss what I feel could use improvement in their play  Ricky Torres, Grady Reynolds and Abe Keita spring to mind as rare exceptions.  However, I'm sure you would agree that the general tenure of my posting is positive and complimentary of all our players.

Marcus Hatten was here for two years.  He took us to the dance in one and won the Nit in the other.  So the fan base is in love with him.  Hence the Ronald Reagan analogy. Hilton, Prez, JB1 and 2 and Hardy boyz took us to the dance so we love them too.  If the current crop of seniors don't dance, they'll forever be remembered as garbage.  That's the way it works around here and that's human nature.

The fact remains that Hatten shot 38% from the field and 28% from 3 during his Ncaa run and he's canonized.  30% from three his second year. To say that a player is terrible and post stats to prove why he's terrible than turn around and say that a player is great with the same or worse stats, is hypocritical. Perhaps in the future just say that you like a player because he has a more well rounded game or "just because" or because he was on a team that made the Ncaa tournament or because he has an aesthetically pleasing shooting stroke or because he tried to fight Patrick Ewing or because his socks are appropriately low.  Don't cite stats at all...because you can't have it both ways.

I'm not comparing players.  I'm just pointing out what I feel is an interesting observation about human nature.

I prefer the eye test  as certain statscan be misleading. Stats tell a story, just not the whole story.

His senor year Hatten as the leading scorer on an NIT championship averaged 22.2 on 42% shooting
Greene the 4th leading scorer on a TBD NIT team is averaging 12 points on 41% shooting

In his junior year Hatten averaged 20 on 38% shooting as the leading scorer on an NCAA tourney team
In his junior year as the 6th leading scorer on an embarassing NIT team Green averaged just under 7 and a half while shooting 39%

So in this case the stats back up the eye test.

Why you feel it's necessary to make a case to me of why Marcus Hatten is better than Phil Greene is beyond me?  You must really think I'm an idiot.  I'm a devout realist and more than unbiased in my judgement of basketball talent.

I've never claimed Mean Joe was great.  And depending on my mood and the day, I rank Rhombus as the third, fourth or fifth best player ON THIS TEAM.( not sure how to rank Savior at this point and getting less sure of how to rank Oblockpa )  Is that realistic enough for you?

He's my favorite player.  I never said he's the best player.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 08:56:13 AM by carmineabbatiello »
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Poison

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #50 on: February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM »
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 04:34:12 AM by Poison »
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #51 on: February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM »
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark
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Foad

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM »
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM »
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.
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Foad

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #55 on: February 10, 2015, 12:26:15 PM »
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson

Based off some of your posts, I would not call you a big Jackson fan, but I also noticed a bunch of posters on the other board seem to dislike him
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Foad

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #56 on: February 10, 2015, 12:43:40 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson

Based off some of your posts, I would not call you a big Jackson fan, but I also noticed a bunch of posters on the other board seem to dislike him

If you're talking about the Jackson - Moses controversy I've determined to my own satisfaction that not playing Jackson wasn't the reason they couldn't beat GT: Louis was. Jackson's senior year he was phenomenal - he carried them. His other years he was carried. Is he a top 5 guard in my lifetime, absolutely. Is he number 1, to me probably not. I don't care about his cheating on his wife or his proselytizing or that he allegedly hates the university or whatever else.
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #57 on: February 10, 2015, 01:23:17 PM »
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson

Based off some of your posts, I would not call you a big Jackson fan, but I also noticed a bunch of posters on the other board seem to dislike him

If you're talking about the Jackson - Moses controversy I've determined to my own satisfaction that not playing Jackson wasn't the reason they couldn't beat GT: Louis was. Jackson's senior year he was phenomenal - he carried them. His other years he was carried. Is he a top 5 guard in my lifetime, absolutely. Is he number 1, to me probably not. I don't care about his cheating on his wife or his proselytizing or that he allegedly hates the university or whatever else.

Is that what it is? Yet everyone seems ok with Artest? I guess I am different, could  care less what guys are like off the court.

The Jackson / Moses thing: You can't look at it from the point of view of how Jackson played in 20 minutes a game as a soph. My argument has always been if you gave the ball to Jackson from the beginning of the season, I think he duplicates his Junior year and we are a better team. Jackson clearly had more upside than Moses that can't be argued.

For the record I do not think anything would have put us over the edge with Gtown except if we would have been in Nova's bracket and Nova was in ours.
I do think we would have been a better team if Louie would have started Jackson and given Jones and Rowan more minutes. Rowan def would have helped against box and 1 Gtown used to throw at Mullin and the only game we beat them Shelton Jones played really well.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 01:35:21 PM by we are sju »
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Foad

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #58 on: February 10, 2015, 01:59:42 PM »
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson

Based off some of your posts, I would not call you a big Jackson fan, but I also noticed a bunch of posters on the other board seem to dislike him

If you're talking about the Jackson - Moses controversy I've determined to my own satisfaction that not playing Jackson wasn't the reason they couldn't beat GT: Louis was. Jackson's senior year he was phenomenal - he carried them. His other years he was carried. Is he a top 5 guard in my lifetime, absolutely. Is he number 1, to me probably not. I don't care about his cheating on his wife or his proselytizing or that he allegedly hates the university or whatever else.

Is that what it is? Yet everyone seems ok with Artest? I guess I am different, could  care less what guys are like off the court.

The Jackson / Moses thing: You can't look at it from the point of view of how Jackson played in 20 minutes a game as a soph. My argument has always been if you gave the ball to Jackson from the beginning of the season, I think he duplicates his Junior year and we are a better team. Jackson clearly had more upside than Moses that can't be argued.

For the record I do not think anything would have put us over the edge with Gtown except if we would have been in Nova's bracket and Nova was in ours.
I do think we would have been a better team if Louie would have started Jackson and given Jones and Rowan more minutes. Rowan def would have helped against box and 1 Gtown used to throw at Mullin and the only game we beat them Shelton Jones played really well.

I've given up trying to figure out why anyone at RMD thinks anything. But that's the impression I get.

It'd be hard to argue against giving Jackson the ball (except that LC would never have done it). In the first place it's a hypothetical and in the second I've said the same thing about Jordan: give him the ball and live with the mistakes. Moses was a good college player though and all BE in 85. I find Jackson's statements that starting Moses over him was the reason they didn't win pretty self serving coming from someone who turned the ball over once a minute.
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we are sju

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Re: Head coaches Post Louie
« Reply #59 on: February 10, 2015, 02:10:25 PM »
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 01:23:17 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:43:40 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 12:26:15 PM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 12:22:47 PM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 11:15:36 AM
Quote from: Foad on February 10, 2015, 11:02:37 AM
Quote from: we are sju on February 10, 2015, 10:49:43 AM
Quote from: Poison on February 10, 2015, 04:23:17 AM
Quote from: Celtics11 on February 09, 2015, 06:30:37 PM
Know many of you guys don't want to hear it and will kill me for saying it but if Hatten was an all time great Johnnie-yet he didn't even sniff the NBA. Might just be us as fans tend to overrate our own players and talent. Must admit Hatten was pretty clutch though and enjoyed watching him and he was a very good college player but as with most of or guys overrated by our own fan base.

There are dozens of players who absolutely suck in the league. The Knicks alone have one player who doesn't suck. Hatten didn't make the league, and maybe the reason why is because the league is kinda shit? The league wants tall guards. Hatten is maybe 5'10. That's why he didn't make it.

Jakarr Sampson made the league. That guy wasn't even good in college. What does that say about the NBA?

You want overrated, we got plenty:  Scott, Lopez, Hamilton, Sampson, Lindsey, Bangura, Hill, Thomas, Burrell. Hatten was underrated. Not overrated. He was Imo, the best guard to play at STJ. Ever.

(Yes, better than that nut Jackson)

He was def better than Cedric and Tony Jackson as I am assuming you can't possibly mean Mark

I might agree with Poison. Hatten was a force of nature on both sides of the ball. I'd put him up there with Mullin Berry Sealy or maybe just a tick below. Imagine him on a good team with a real coach. Jackson's senior year he was outstanding, the year before he had Berry, and before that he was eh.

I liked Hatten, but I am not sure you could put him on a good team and be successful. Wasn't a real point and not truly a two. Was a small scoring guard.
BTW not sure where this anti Jackson stuff comes from as he was great his junior year too. Yes he had Berry but led the nation in assists with Rowan, Jones and Glass. All theree were good but role players.

Saying that he's the second best guard in recent memory - or third if you count Greg Harvey - isn't really anti Jackson

Based off some of your posts, I would not call you a big Jackson fan, but I also noticed a bunch of posters on the other board seem to dislike him

If you're talking about the Jackson - Moses controversy I've determined to my own satisfaction that not playing Jackson wasn't the reason they couldn't beat GT: Louis was. Jackson's senior year he was phenomenal - he carried them. His other years he was carried. Is he a top 5 guard in my lifetime, absolutely. Is he number 1, to me probably not. I don't care about his cheating on his wife or his proselytizing or that he allegedly hates the university or whatever else.

Is that what it is? Yet everyone seems ok with Artest? I guess I am different, could  care less what guys are like off the court.

The Jackson / Moses thing: You can't look at it from the point of view of how Jackson played in 20 minutes a game as a soph. My argument has always been if you gave the ball to Jackson from the beginning of the season, I think he duplicates his Junior year and we are a better team. Jackson clearly had more upside than Moses that can't be argued.

For the record I do not think anything would have put us over the edge with Gtown except if we would have been in Nova's bracket and Nova was in ours.
I do think we would have been a better team if Louie would have started Jackson and given Jones and Rowan more minutes. Rowan def would have helped against box and 1 Gtown used to throw at Mullin and the only game we beat them Shelton Jones played really well.

I've given up trying to figure out why anyone at RMD thinks anything. But that's the impression I get.

It'd be hard to argue against giving Jackson the ball (except that LC would never have done it). In the first place it's a hypothetical and in the second I've said the same thing about Jordan: give him the ball and live with the mistakes. Moses was a good college player though and all BE in 85. I find Jackson's statements that starting Moses over him was the reason they didn't win pretty self serving coming from someone who turned the ball over once a minute.

I agree about Jordan, but evidently he never went to practice, so he might not have been prepared. Then again, considering the system we run........

Back to when we were good. I thought we were too predictable. They Box and oned Mullin and collapsed down low against Berry. That left Wennington who came into the game with 3 fouls against Ewing and the offensively challenged Moses and Willie Glass. Jackson brought another dimension that could have helped.

Again I thought Jackson tried to do too much with his minutes. If he knew he was going to get 30, I think you would have seen a player resembling the Junior Mark Jackson.
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