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Final Grade

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goredmen

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #40 on: April 10, 2015, 01:59:32 PM »
Lavin's only successful season happened with Norm's players. If a 10-8, 1st round loss in the BET, 9 seed and not competitive in the NCAA tourney in year 5 of his tenure is considered a success then boy are the expectations low here. He did get people talking about us again though (although not all of it was good) so he gets a C from me
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boo3

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #41 on: April 10, 2015, 03:09:15 PM »
 I gave him a C based on his performance.  Nothing to do with his predecessors .

The last 5 years saw us have some fine players come through the program.  A handful of highlight worthy victories .   Also, a lot of frustration and disappointment on and off the court. 

Both NCAA appearances we were blown out . The games were over pretty much after the tip.

I thought the Lavin hire would be much more successful and I gave him the benefit of the doubt probably too much. 

I think what we've ( I've) learned is that this job is made for a NYer, first and foremost.  Lavin never fit in in that regard.
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TONYD3

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2015, 03:25:08 PM »
Norms players lost- lavins 1st year players won. big difference. Final grade is a B. Coulda shoulda been better. But it wasn't that's why he is gone. Lavin did make it fun to be basketball fan. Most of us agree on that. Some of you really forgot how bad it was before he was here. Forget making the NCAA's . We didn't even make the big east tourney one year under norm. Many didn't like his personality but brought us back to the big time.
I am happy Mullin's here. Expecting better from him. Standards have been raised . In part becuse of the good things Lavin did . Also for some of the things he didn't do well. It is so much nicer reading the board without the negativity. Hoping he does well.
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MCNPA

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2015, 04:32:19 PM »
The one thing we have never been able to do is main any level of consistency.  This is specifically about the way manages scholarships and the types of recruits the coach goes after.  A simple thing like recruiting enough bigs, enough guys that can shoot, enough heady guards etc.  I am more than sure Mullin has a vision of how he'd like to construct the team.  Lavin started off looking like an A, came back after his bout with cancer as s C.  Looked like he didn't have the will any more.  Recruiting fell off horribly.  I'd say he ended as a B-. Recruiting which was Lavin's strength became non-existent and we were facing quite a few years of massive rebuild again.
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jr49

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #44 on: April 10, 2015, 04:41:08 PM »
Coach Lavin gets a C thanks to Dom covering up a F's worth of neglect. Dom busting it for 40 gets a A for carrying a 7-11 team to 10-8. D'lo gets a A for the years he was the offense. Wait, 3 years of poor recruiting and having no bench in year 5 drops Lavin to a D.
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redslope

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2015, 05:18:56 PM »
Quote from: Marco Baldi on April 10, 2015, 01:45:53 PM
Quote from: redslope on April 10, 2015, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: Marco Baldi on April 10, 2015, 12:11:40 PM
Quote from: redslope on April 10, 2015, 12:06:27 PM
Best coach we have had since Louie.  Graduated players, no embarrassments, went to tournament; just did not balance the recruiting. 

Robert Morris?
Robert Morris not rated as he was not one of Louie's successors:)  One rates on the whole book not just one game.  If you want one game, We were the only non ACC team to lead Duke at halftime; were leading the by 2 with 6 minutes to play and were down by 2 with 2:30 to go--not many did that to the national champs.  like I said look at the whole book of business not a single game.

And the whole book deserves a C. Not just 1 season with his top 5 recruiting class
I did not rate him with a "grade" just said he was the best subsequent to Louie--so if he is a "C" in your opinion where do you rate the others that followed Louie.  Using your criteria vis-s-vis the others they would all be C-, D or F.  How would you rate the others?
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Gumby

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2015, 05:37:12 PM »
As far as Coach Lavin's legacy, we will continue to debate that for years to come.  The grade range seems to be from a D to a B.  It probably all depends on your criteria and point of view.

I was at Coach Lavin's first game, the midnight opening of the CBB season at St. Mary's. There was electricity in the air.  We are back!!!

After years of disappointment with both Coach Jarvis and Coach Roberts, we all were excited with anticipation.  Our feelings of good times to come were fed by our beloved CR's encouraging tales of Coach at UCLA. Remember!  We all deserved some good St. John's CBB seasons.

Coach lavin's credentials back then were an excellent recruiter and an average in game coach.

From the start with DP the first year and all those highly talented recruits the second year, we thought we were back to the Looie years, or even better.  However, as we saw with all the problems with that #5 recruiting class there were snakes in Paradise.  It really never got better recruiting-wise.  Losing two players to the NBA did not help, especially with no real new recruits to take their places.

Okay, so Coach lavin was not a good in game coach.  I think we all would agree on that now, with so many post season blow outs.  He deserves a D for that area.

What I cannot figure out is why he screwed up so badly with recruiting?  2.5 quality recruits in 4 years is just terrible.  His complacency here, or just plain laziness, also earns him a D.

The one bright spot, and to me, and it is a very bright spot, is the fact that he moved us forward after years of decline.  I have to give him an A for that achievement.

So my overall grade for Coach Lavin is a C and a comment on his report card, "Young Man we expected better from you.".


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mjmaherjr

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2015, 06:17:34 PM »
Quote from: WillieG on April 10, 2015, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: we are sju on April 10, 2015, 12:08:54 PM
Quote from: simplyred on April 10, 2015, 12:02:59 PM
Oh my God, not another former coach thread!!!

Got tired of reading people creaming their pants over whether or not Slice is coming to be an assistant coach
Got tired of people saying that Slice's hiring "is imminent" and "today or tomorrow".  I don't care if you know someone who know's someone.  What's the damn source?

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bball purist

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2015, 06:33:28 PM »
Quote from: Marco Baldi on April 10, 2015, 01:53:16 PM
Quote from: Tha Kid on April 10, 2015, 01:51:10 PM
Quote from: WillieG on April 10, 2015, 01:45:00 PM
Quote from: we are sju on April 10, 2015, 12:08:54 PM
Quote from: simplyred on April 10, 2015, 12:02:59 PM
Oh my God, not another former coach thread!!!

Got tired of reading people creaming their pants over whether or not Slice is coming to be an assistant coach
Got tired of people saying that Slice's hiring "is imminent" and "today or tomorrow".  I don't care if you know someone who know's someone.  What's the damn source?

Why should they give you their source?

Dude sounds frustrated
I think it's Keyshawn's cousin: "Just give me the damn source!"
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newsman13

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2015, 06:41:29 PM »
We can go back and give Lapchick an A during his first tour...Frank McGuire an A...then Lapchick gets a B for his second tour.  With that in mind, Looie gets a B- for keeping us relevant, but never important except the early years of the Big East when importance fell in his lap.

Mahoney was a B+ his first year, then fell into the complacency that's endemic to the program.  Because of the decent recruiting that brought some excitement followed by the terrible coaching, he ends with a C-.  Fraschilla also brought excitement and good recruiting but no cigars which also gives him a C-.

Jarvis almost got us to a final four.  The Ohio State team that beat us had that win vacated.  He started out gangbusters which would have qualified him as an A.  He couldn't deal with the changes in basketball..the one and done types like Omar Cook or the Darius Miles, Lenny Cooke's of the world who were coming here if the NBA didn't take kids out of high school.  He also couldn't deal with the school's mentality of subway token recruiting when UConn and others were talking about recruiting being an arms race.  Had he been able to change, he would have been an A or B+.  I give him a C+.

No matter how you slice it, Roberts was an F.

Lavin came in with great expectations and deep enough pockets to warrant an A his first year if Kennedy hadn't been hurt.  The program has been star crossed ever since.  He ends with a B- because he couldn't relate to NYC...a town that could live without all the drama he seemed to bring.
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Celtics11

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2015, 06:46:13 PM »
Quote from: redslope on April 10, 2015, 01:41:01 PM
Quote from: Marco Baldi on April 10, 2015, 12:11:40 PM
Quote from: redslope on April 10, 2015, 12:06:27 PM
Best coach we have had since Louie.  Graduated players, no embarrassments, went to tournament; just did not balance the recruiting. 

Robert Morris?
Robert Morris not rated as he was not one of Louie's successors:)  One rates on the whole book not just one game.  If you want one game, We were the only non ACC team to lead Duke at halftime; were leading the by 2 with 6 minutes to play and were down by 2 with 2:30 to go--not many did that to the national champs.  like I said look at the whole book of business not a single game.
You say not to judge him on one game and than you laud him on a partial game we wound up losing by what 9 points? Why not just look at a 10-0 or 12-0 run he had against a good team which I'm sure he had and put him up there with John Wooden. My grade C.


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boo3

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2015, 07:53:53 PM »
That was the point.  Lol.
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prjohnnies

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2015, 09:10:36 PM »
A college "B", which is closer to a real C+/B-.  He brought us back to being relevant, even in the years where we did not make the tournament.  Friends of mine who follow college basketball talked about St. John's because of Lavin and the recruits he was able to snag early on.  He started out gangbusters and let it spiral downwards the last few years.  Missing the NCAA two years ago with this year's squad plus Jakar, Orlando and Gift was inexcusable.  He showed that you can bring in top talent from outside NY, and we had some exciting times.  I will never understand how someone who started off so well on the recruiting front left us with a roster in which Dom started at Center in the NCAA tournament.  The "spin" got old real quick, for sure.

I also accept the opinion of those who believe that many of us view Lavin in a more positive light than we should because of the Norm debacle.  Had Lavin followed Fran, for example, we probably wouldn't be nearly as high on him.  But the reality is that he followed the Norm disaster, and brought some life back to the program.  I didn't enjoy any year under Norm.  I enjoyed 2 and a half of the 4 yeras under Lavin (don't count the Dunlap season).
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bball purist

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2015, 12:51:19 AM »
Final grade by year - A, B-, C, D, C+... overall - C+.
After reflecting upon all the events, I believe the C changed coach's outlook on life and coaching. I think he lost 5 mph on his recruiting fastball because of it.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 12:51:53 AM by bball purist »
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HowCouldUBeSoHarkless

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2015, 03:58:58 PM »
  ‘I don’t even know how to put it in words yet, but I owe this guy my life, so I’ll probably talk to him every day for the rest of my life.’
    —St. John’s guard D’Angelo Harrison on coach Steve Lavin

He should get an A just for that quote right there.

Three 20 win seasons in five years, last season was one of the most successful in recent memory. The Johnnies are not the Yankees, its not NCAA championship or bust. Lav was great for us.

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Foad

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2015, 04:26:35 PM »
Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on April 11, 2015, 03:58:58 PM
  ‘I don’t even know how to put it in words yet, but I owe this guy my life, so I’ll probably talk to him every day for the rest of my life.’
    —St. John’s guard D’Angelo Harrison on coach Steve Lavin

He should get an A just for that quote right there.

Does Norm get an A for Rob Thomas?
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HowCouldUBeSoHarkless

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2015, 04:40:35 PM »
Quote from: Foad on April 11, 2015, 04:26:35 PM
Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on April 11, 2015, 03:58:58 PM
  ‘I don’t even know how to put it in words yet, but I owe this guy my life, so I’ll probably talk to him every day for the rest of my life.’
    —St. John’s guard D’Angelo Harrison on coach Steve Lavin

He should get an A just for that quote right there.

Does Norm get an A for Rob Thomas?

Who hurt you?
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Tha Kid

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Re: Final Grade
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2015, 07:14:47 PM »
Quote from: HowCouldUBeSoHarkless on April 11, 2015, 03:58:58 PM
  ‘I don’t even know how to put it in words yet, but I owe this guy my life, so I’ll probably talk to him every day for the rest of my life.’
    —St. John’s guard D’Angelo Harrison on coach Steve Lavin

He should get an A just for that quote right there.

Three 20 win seasons in five years, last season was one of the most successful in recent memory. The Johnnies are not the Yankees, its not NCAA championship or bust. Lav was great for us.

It is obvious that the players loved Lav, and with Dee specifically Lavin's suspension and handling of him was nothing short of perfect.

Lav gets a B from me.  2 tourneys in 5 years, our best stretch in 15 years, only being truly bad one season (when he was out w prostate cancer, and that year was really norms fault lets be honest, just like next year will be lav's fault if we're bad), and we were relevant.  Lack of recruiting last year and this year and way too many risks is what doomed him.  I will look back at the Lav years fondly to be honest.  He did just fine for St. John's.  But if we are serious about truly being big time, it was time to move on.
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