Marcus Lovett hopeful to get cleared

Quote from: Dave on November 13, 2015, 01:01:45 AM

So lets just say they continue fighting and eventually he gets cleared midseason. Does this really help the kid?

We don't know if they should fight it. All we know is that our head coach was angry enough to make a threat. So, IMO he is responsible for the anger towards the NCAA that St.John's fans are feeling. Either he spoke out of turn, or the NCAA has it in for St.John's.

Since Mullin didn't fly to Indiananapolis it seems fair to accept that he probably did speak out of turn, and the NCAA is well within their right to make LoVett a partial qualifier. As a head coach, he's going to have to learn to think before he speaks.

I'm pretty inured to you being completely ridiculous, but this is even more completely ridiculous than usual. In the first place, "I'm thinking about flying to Indianapolis” isn't a "threat" and its expecially not a threat in New York City where every is so dead butch and manly. Rathet than being ominous - as threats usually are - it's almost whimsical - I'm thinking of flying to Indianapolis could be the opening number in Redmen dot com, the musical:

As a consequence / of their incompetence
I'm thinking of flying / to Indianapolis
I can say with confidence / it's predominance
As a metropolis / is preposterous

That's got Tony written all over it. Get me Bette Midler on the phone, stat.


In the second place, many Saint John's fans are still angry that Lou started Mike Moses instead of Mark Jakson. You yourself fulminate regularly about sissies who committed to backwaters like Kansas during the Clinton administration. Saint John's fans don't need a special reason to feel angry and frustrated, they've had 50 years worth of reasons and if the reason they need is some remark Chris Mullin made off the cuff to some dopey blogger, they have bigger issues that need be addressed. Speaking of which, did he bang your girlfriend? Run over your puppy? Run over your girlfriend while banging your puppy? You can tell me, it'll be our little secret.

The thing for me is enough people and sources said Marcus was going to be eligible.  Obviously people got wind of his scores and coursework (possibly from his party) and thought it was acceptable.  From the sound of things, they NCAA just doesn't believe he could turn it all around his senior year and complete all the needed work which is completely bogus and wrong.  If I was his family and that was the case I would be infuriated and sue like crazy.  I also would feel absolutely insulted if I was his teacher(s) and this happened.  It's a slap in the face to their integrity.  I can't believe they are asking for homework assignments and tests, etc.  I understand you need to make sure things are kosher but I also don't know too many teachers who keep all these things and why should they.  If I taught Marcus and then found out my class was invalid I would personally have a serious problem and take action.

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year. 

The thing for me is enough people and sources said Marcus was going to be eligible.  Obviously people got wind of his scores and coursework (possibly from his party) and thought it was acceptable.  From the sound of things, they NCAA just doesn't believe he could turn it all around his senior year and complete all the needed work which is completely bogus and wrong.  If I was his family and that was the case I would be infuriated and sue like crazy.  I also would feel absolutely insulted if I was his teacher(s) and this happened.  It's a slap in the face to their integrity.  I can't believe they are asking for homework assignments and tests, etc.  I understand you need to make sure things are kosher but I also don't know too many teachers who keep all these things and why should they.  If I taught Marcus and then found out my class was invalid I would personally have a serious problem and take action.

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year. 

Wasnt this the last year for 5th year transfers and immediate eligibility?

So lets just say they continue fighting and eventually he gets cleared midseason. Does this really help the kid?

I guess it depends on how soon he gets cleared.  If we're talking he gets to play the majority of the BE season, then yeah I do think it is.  If we're talking mid-February, then maybe not, but then he at least has the option of redshirting to not lose eligiblity, or get some games in with his teammates that matter.

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year.

I, like yourself, don't believe it's okay to get both Yakwe and LoVett next season or for a 5th year.  I'm not saying, it's a bad thing to get 'em next season, either.  But, we definitely could use both for this season.  It would also give 'em some experience going into next season, if they were suiting up. 

I also was never one who felt Yakwe should be redshirted, if he was cleared to play this season.  You play to win, and Yakwe would be of help for us, if he was able to suit up, this season.  He hustles his ass off, and he'd be valuable on the boards and blocking shots.  So, losing him and LoVett this season could be the difference of looking halfway decent (albeit, still a tough season) versus looking like hot garbage.

As, I stated about a week ago, this season is a pass for Mullin and the staff.  I'm hoping we can see improvement and get better throughout the season.  I'm also hoping the '17 and '18 recruits aren't shortsighted, and see what the staff is attempting to build long-term.  Otherwise, they may get cold feet and go for the "sure" thing, if they assume things are gonna be bleak.  Finishing off the 2016 class with a huge bang (ie, Freudenberg, Ahmed, Alkins, Maker) could end up being more imperative than us winning 10 or 11 games.  The '17 and '18 recruits may take it, as we're actually building, and not believe their commitment to the Johnnies would be some sort of leap of faith, per se'.  We just have to get it (a bonanza-like '16 class) to come to fruition.

 

Quote from: scoobydoo on November 13, 2015, 08:13:42 AM

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year.

I, like yourself, don't believe it's okay to get both Yakwe and LoVett next season or for a 5th year.  I'm not saying, it's a bad thing to get 'em next season, either.  But, we definitely could use both for this season.  It would also give 'em some experience going into next season, if they were suiting up. 

I also was never one who felt Yakwe should be redshirted, if he was cleared to play this season.  You play to win, and Yakwe would be of help for us, if he was able to suit up, this season.  He hustles his ass off, and he'd be valuable on the boards and blocking shots.  So, losing him and LoVett this season could be the difference of looking halfway decent (albeit, still a tough season) versus looking like hot garbage.

As, I stated about a week ago, this season is a pass for Mullin and the staff.  I'm hoping we can see improvement and get better throughout the season.  I'm also hoping the '17 and '18 recruits aren't shortsighted, and see what the staff is attempting to build long-term.  Otherwise, they may get cold feet and go for the "sure" thing, if they assume things are gonna be bleak.  Finishing off the 2016 class with a huge bang (ie, Freudenberg, Ahmed, Alkins, Maker) could end up being more imperative than us winning 10 or 11 games.  The '17 and '18 recruits may take it, as we're actually building, and not believe their commitment to the Johnnies would be some sort of leap of faith, per se'.  We just have to get it (a bonanza-like '16 class) to come to fruition.

Why, do you use, so many commas. It makes you sound, like you have, a severe, stutter. Could you stop, using them, so they, your posts, that is, are readable. Thanks, in advance.

The biggest takeaway for this season is developing our young talent.  Guys like Sima, Ellison, Mussini, Lovett, Yakwe, Owens and even Holifield and Williams are going to be our core moving forward.  We will be red shirting Lovett and Yakwe so it seems like the realistic outcome won't be winning many games this season, rather as a primer for next season.

We need to bring in a really good recruiting class for 2016 overall and I have little doubt we will be able to do that.  We should enter next year with our young talent a bit more poised and experienced.  We will still be very young next season, but with a good recruiting class, be much more talented overall.  Right now our upperclassmen on roster are weak overall compared to just about any low-major conference team.  It puts us at immediate disadvantage. 

Land a strong class for 2016 and things will start changing for the better a lot quicker.  I think we are in great hands with the staff.

Quote from: mjdinkins on November 13, 2015, 01:12:53 PM

Quote from: scoobydoo on November 13, 2015, 08:13:42 AM

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year.

I, like yourself, don't believe it's okay to get both Yakwe and LoVett next season or for a 5th year.  I'm not saying, it's a bad thing to get 'em next season, either.  But, we definitely could use both for this season.  It would also give 'em some experience going into next season, if they were suiting up. 

I also was never one who felt Yakwe should be redshirted, if he was cleared to play this season.  You play to win, and Yakwe would be of help for us, if he was able to suit up, this season.  He hustles his ass off, and he'd be valuable on the boards and blocking shots.  So, losing him and LoVett this season could be the difference of looking halfway decent (albeit, still a tough season) versus looking like hot garbage.

As, I stated about a week ago, this season is a pass for Mullin and the staff.  I'm hoping we can see improvement and get better throughout the season.  I'm also hoping the '17 and '18 recruits aren't shortsighted, and see what the staff is attempting to build long-term.  Otherwise, they may get cold feet and go for the "sure" thing, if they assume things are gonna be bleak.  Finishing off the 2016 class with a huge bang (ie, Freudenberg, Ahmed, Alkins, Maker) could end up being more imperative than us winning 10 or 11 games.  The '17 and '18 recruits may take it, as we're actually building, and not believe their commitment to the Johnnies would be some sort of leap of faith, per se'.  We just have to get it (a bonanza-like '16 class) to come to fruition.

Why, do you use, so many commas. It makes you sound, like you have, a severe, stutter. Could you stop, using them, so they, your posts, that is, are readable. Thanks, in advance.

I'll be sure to use plenty more next time, if it means your silly ass won't read it.

So lets just say they continue fighting and eventually he gets cleared midseason. Does this really help the kid?

You right Dave.This team not one player away. M.L. can study, work out, and practice. We have 4 players in waiting, and we know this staff not going to quit recruiting. Up to the staff to get Marcus to work hard and keep his head up. Thats what I hope to see from the whole team.

@JayBilas
St. John's alleges NCAA may have violated Marcus Lovett's legal rights regarding initial eligibility: http://bit.ly/1X8pg1G

@JayBilas
St. John's alleges NCAA may have violated Marcus Lovett's legal rights regarding initial eligibility: http://bit.ly/1X8pg1G

It's the same info we had last week.

If the NCAA violated LoVett's "legal rights" and that was truly the case, an attorney could point that out along with proper certified motivation. Sitting around and waiting makes it look like the NCAA got this right. If you are absolutely sure that you are 100% in the right, why the secrecy?

If the NCAA violated LoVett's "legal rights" and that was truly the case, an attorney could point that out along with proper certified motivation. Sitting around and waiting makes it look like the NCAA got this right. If you are absolutely sure that you are 100% in the right, why the secrecy?

You've seen the tweet now read the article.

“The University disagrees with the NCAA’s decision and the process it used in reviewing Marcus’ initial eligibility wavier request,” St. John’s interim athletic director and general counsel Joseph Oliva said in a statement. “We have engaged in several conversations with the NCAA to express our concerns that their process may have violated Marcus’ legal rights. Unfortunately, it appears that the NCAA elected to disregard these concerns. We have advised Marcus and his family to consult with appropriate legal counsel about the options that may be available to challenge the NCAA ruling and the standards it applied in this process.”

So it appears that an attorney did point that out and that no one is sitting around waiting. Huh.

I don't know if we got it wrong or right, but it seems like the university believes Lovett has all required courses, grades and scores.  Seems a lot like the NCAA just said, "yeah we can't disprove anything, but we don't think he made up that much work".  Hope Lovett does sue.  The burden of proof should be up to the NCAA to sort, not hold hostage because they can't figure it out.  Either way, if he's not cleared this season, kid can rewlly play and will be awesome with Ponds and Mussini next year. 

Quote from: Poison on November 18, 2015, 06:44:59 PM

If the NCAA violated LoVett's "legal rights" and that was truly the case, an attorney could point that out along with proper certified motivation. Sitting around and waiting makes it look like the NCAA got this right. If you are absolutely sure that you are 100% in the right, why the secrecy?

You've seen the tweet now read the article.

“The University disagrees with the NCAA’s decision and the process it used in reviewing Marcus’ initial eligibility wavier request,” St. John’s interim athletic director and general counsel Joseph Oliva said in a statement. “We have engaged in several conversations with the NCAA to express our concerns that their process may have violated Marcus’ legal rights. Unfortunately, it appears that the NCAA elected to disregard these concerns. We have advised Marcus and his family to consult with appropriate legal counsel about the options that may be available to challenge the NCAA ruling and the standards it applied in this process.”

So it appears that an attorney did point that out and that no one is sitting around waiting. Huh.

This article is old news. All of this was printed last week. If LoVett really did everything he was supposed to do, then why is everyone so quiet? If this really is an amazing feat that LoVett accomplished, why isn't he speaking out about it? Where are his night school teachers? Why aren't they offended?

If there is really such a strong case in his favor, the school that he graduated from should have been asked to immediately come to his defense.

This is why I don't buy it. Hope I'm wrong, but this doesn't add up.

And in terms of sitting around and waiting, show me where STJ has done anything since this ruling was handed down other than suggest to LoVett that he get an attorney?

I suspect that the issue is that the NCAA used standards that are not explicitly in place yet.  There are new standards, which go into effect next year, that explicitly state how fast students that have fallen behind,   can make up work.  They have been disallowing a lot of these kids eligibility in the recent past.  Like Pelle, Garret, and Sampson, four years ago.  All three of them got three A's in all three of the courses they made up.  Nine A's in all, and all from the same high school.  It was subjectively judged by the NCAA to not pass muster, and they were all ruled ineligible.  But now, with explicitly stated standards scheduled to go into effect next year, STJ is saying that you are holding Marcus to something that is not in effect yet, and never was.  "You subjectively said that he did not make up the work, without any proof".  It would be interesting to see how this would be treated in the courts, if this is, in fact, what is going on.

Quote from: Foad on November 18, 2015, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 18, 2015, 06:44:59 PM

If the NCAA violated LoVett's "legal rights" and that was truly the case, an attorney could point that out along with proper certified motivation. Sitting around and waiting makes it look like the NCAA got this right. If you are absolutely sure that you are 100% in the right, why the secrecy?

You've seen the tweet now read the article.

“The University disagrees with the NCAA’s decision and the process it used in reviewing Marcus’ initial eligibility wavier request,” St. John’s interim athletic director and general counsel Joseph Oliva said in a statement. “We have engaged in several conversations with the NCAA to express our concerns that their process may have violated Marcus’ legal rights. Unfortunately, it appears that the NCAA elected to disregard these concerns. We have advised Marcus and his family to consult with appropriate legal counsel about the options that may be available to challenge the NCAA ruling and the standards it applied in this process.”

So it appears that an attorney did point that out and that no one is sitting around waiting. Huh.

This article is old news. All of this was printed last week. If LoVett really did everything he was supposed to do, then why is everyone so quiet? If this really is an amazing feat that LoVett accomplished, why isn't he speaking out about it? Where are his night school teachers? Why aren't they offended?

If there is really such a strong case in his favor, the school that he graduated from should have been asked to immediately come to his defense.

This is why I don't buy it. Hope I'm wrong, but this doesn't add up.

And in terms of sitting around and waiting, show me where STJ has done anything since this ruling was handed down other than suggest to LoVett that he get an attorney?

NCAA rules do not allow the school to provide the lawyer--they view this as between them and the student

Maybe Jay Bilas feels like doing some pro bono work.

Quote from: Poison on November 18, 2015, 10:35:01 PM

Quote from: Foad on November 18, 2015, 09:37:23 PM

Quote from: Poison on November 18, 2015, 06:44:59 PM

If the NCAA violated LoVett's "legal rights" and that was truly the case, an attorney could point that out along with proper certified motivation. Sitting around and waiting makes it look like the NCAA got this right. If you are absolutely sure that you are 100% in the right, why the secrecy?

You've seen the tweet now read the article.

“The University disagrees with the NCAA’s decision and the process it used in reviewing Marcus’ initial eligibility wavier request,” St. John’s interim athletic director and general counsel Joseph Oliva said in a statement. “We have engaged in several conversations with the NCAA to express our concerns that their process may have violated Marcus’ legal rights. Unfortunately, it appears that the NCAA elected to disregard these concerns. We have advised Marcus and his family to consult with appropriate legal counsel about the options that may be available to challenge the NCAA ruling and the standards it applied in this process.”

So it appears that an attorney did point that out and that no one is sitting around waiting. Huh.

This article is old news. All of this was printed last week. If LoVett really did everything he was supposed to do, then why is everyone so quiet? If this really is an amazing feat that LoVett accomplished, why isn't he speaking out about it? Where are his night school teachers? Why aren't they offended?

If there is really such a strong case in his favor, the school that he graduated from should have been asked to immediately come to his defense.

This is why I don't buy it. Hope I'm wrong, but this doesn't add up.

And in terms of sitting around and waiting, show me where STJ has done anything since this ruling was handed down other than suggest to LoVett that he get an attorney?

NCAA rules do not allow the school to provide the lawyer--they view this as between them and the student

How do you explain the attorney that they hired on Orlando Sanchez's behalf?

This article is old news. All of this was printed last week. If LoVett really did everything he was supposed to do, then why is everyone so quiet? If this really is an amazing feat that LoVett accomplished, why isn't he speaking out about it? Where are his night school teachers? Why aren't they offended?

If there is really such a strong case in his favor, the school that he graduated from should have been asked to immediately come to his defense.

This is why I don't buy it. Hope I'm wrong, but this doesn't add up.

And in terms of sitting around and waiting, show me where STJ has done anything since this ruling was handed down other than suggest to LoVett that he get an attorney?

I can't answer all those questions, although I can a couple. The one about why no one has interviewed his night school teachers eg: because it would be pointless and boring. No one cares what they have to say and nothing they have to say has any bearing on the process. It's not evidence and it's not compelling. Why his HS doesn't say anything: because there's no percentage in it for them to antagonize the NCAA. As to why SJU hasn't done anything, who says they haven't - they just haven't told you - and anyway it's been all of seven days since the announcement. I don't what you expect them to do in seven days? Invade Indiana? Two weeks ago you were slamming Mullin for talking about it too much, now you're slamming him for not talking about it enough.

My theory: if nearly all of Lavin's recruits hadn't had eligibility issues - including in Keith Thomas's case, criminal ones - the university wouldn't be under quite the level of scrutiny it is, even taking into consideration that Mike Jarvis announced at a press conference not too long ago that the NCAA were a bunch of Nazis who were raping him, and revenge is a dish best eaten cold. As is ass.

Quote from: mjdinkins on November 13, 2015, 01:12:53 PM

Quote from: scoobydoo on November 13, 2015, 08:13:42 AM

For those who think it's ok and now we get him and Yakwe for 4 more years I really think you're just dreaming.  We see 5th year transfers all the time and other situations come up.  I highly doubt both, if either, stay here for 5 years.  So yes, I want them playing and playing as soon as possible.  As a fan it sucks going into a season already assuming we are going to stink.  It's not like the pros where a draft pick is waiting at the end of the tunnel.  While next years class may be fine, the 2017, 2018 classes our staff is working so hard for may have a real difficult time materializing if we win 5 games this year.

I, like yourself, don't believe it's okay to get both Yakwe and LoVett next season or for a 5th year.  I'm not saying, it's a bad thing to get 'em next season, either.  But, we definitely could use both for this season.  It would also give 'em some experience going into next season, if they were suiting up. 

I also was never one who felt Yakwe should be redshirted, if he was cleared to play this season.  You play to win, and Yakwe would be of help for us, if he was able to suit up, this season.  He hustles his ass off, and he'd be valuable on the boards and blocking shots.  So, losing him and LoVett this season could be the difference of looking halfway decent (albeit, still a tough season) versus looking like hot garbage.

As, I stated about a week ago, this season is a pass for Mullin and the staff.  I'm hoping we can see improvement and get better throughout the season.  I'm also hoping the '17 and '18 recruits aren't shortsighted, and see what the staff is attempting to build long-term.  Otherwise, they may get cold feet and go for the "sure" thing, if they assume things are gonna be bleak.  Finishing off the 2016 class with a huge bang (ie, Freudenberg, Ahmed, Alkins, Maker) could end up being more imperative than us winning 10 or 11 games.  The '17 and '18 recruits may take it, as we're actually building, and not believe their commitment to the Johnnies would be some sort of leap of faith, per se'.  We just have to get it (a bonanza-like '16 class) to come to fruition.

Why, do you use, so many commas. It makes you sound, like you have, a severe, stutter. Could you stop, using them, so they, your posts, that is, are readable. Thanks, in advance.

Elaine Benes had a similar problem with exclamation points. Mr Littman was not very happy.