St. Thomas Aquinas Game Thread

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Why so much anger?

I don't know about you but if I'm any top recruit

If you're a top recruit that gives hope to a lot of short chubby pasty faced white boys.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Furthermore, by the time Mullin was hired 90% of the recruits were already committed.

Quote from: goredmen on November 05, 2015, 12:17:32 AM

Yes we will improve as the season progresses.... but so will every other team

The good news is...we don't have to face STAC again.

And it's a good thing STAC isn't in the BE or we would finish in 11th place.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

We still had Obekpa and Jordan plus a handful of decent recruits who changed their minds about coming or had their minds changed for them.  I won't speculate on the one who ended up in Kansas...but this year wouldn't have been three bench players and a bunch of walkons.  We probably wouldn't have reeked against STAC.  Come on.  Don't put me in the position of defending Lavin.  Our best years were in the past with him.  It didn't work out.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Brandon Sampson, Samir Doughty, and the kid from Arizona were pretty solid recruits. Obekpa, as much of a mess as he was, was heading into his senior season. Jordan was probably done here regardless. I don't blame the new staff for making decisions that will eventually bring their vision to life - provided it actually happens, but to say Lavin left them with nothing isn't true. Lavin was fired, and what he was about to bring in, decided not to come, or they were told not to. Either way, the coach has to build the program in his image.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

Hollywood led a team of his recruits to the Ncaa tournament, a rare occurrence on Union Tpke., than got tossed.

He can't be blamed for this season's lack of talent either.  You can't speculate on what we might have had if he remained.

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

We still had Obekpa and Jordan plus a handful of decent recruits who changed their minds about coming or had their minds changed for them.  I won't speculate on the one who ended up in Kansas...but this year wouldn't have been three bench players and a bunch of walkons.  We probably wouldn't have reeked against STAC.  Come on.  Don't put me in the position of defending Lavin.  Our best years were in the past with him.  It didn't work out.

Lavin left the cupboard bare bc he was a lazy recruiter.  One year ago, we watched him try to sneak ADR & Keith Thomas past the NCAA.  The new admin was not going to go through another debacle like that while paying Lav 2+M a year.

The team is thin because Lavin did not stagger recruits, couldn't recruit enough to do so even.  And if you think the next generation of Lavin guys were getting qualified, you'd be dreaming.

Now we have a program that recruits properly and plans what they want to do with recruiting classes.  But Lavin left an awful legacy, left the program a virtual shambles, and this CS will have to make up for the fact that Lavin's crew did not recruit ANYONE in the last two years, and had we some players, now sophomores and juniors and seniors who could  actualy play, who we were paying Lavin exorbitantly to recruit...

Then Mullin would look good off the bat.  Bc for him to come in and land 9 guys in six months, a Herculean exemplar of recruiting, and for the program to be so barren otherwise -- that we can't beat a D2 team....

Mullin is saving our program & cleaning up Lavin's mess.   St. John's has to REBUILD after Lavin.  We are lucky we have the staff we have.

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 11:24:08 PM

Quote from: mullin85berry86 on November 05, 2015, 04:38:12 PM

Quote from: newsman13 on November 05, 2015, 08:44:14 AM

Agree PMG...It's games like this that make elite recruits wonder what they'd be getting into.  This was bad on so many levels.  I'm glad we got rid of the constant Lavin drama and the LaLa land approach...but.

BUT WHAT???

Are you trying to say that this year is on Mullin? Nah this shit on on LAVIN. Norm gave Lav 10 seniors, wtf did Lav give Mullin? 3 bench players from last year.  So it is what it is this year.
Not that Lavin gives a rats ass since he has a nice job now at FoxSports

We still had Obekpa and Jordan plus a handful of decent recruits who changed their minds about coming or had their minds changed for them.  I won't speculate on the one who ended up in Kansas...but this year wouldn't have been three bench players and a bunch of walkons.  We probably wouldn't have reeked against STAC.  Come on.  Don't put me in the position of defending Lavin.  Our best years were in the past with him.  It didn't work out.

Lavin left the cupboard bare bc he was a lazy recruiter.  One year ago, we watched him try to sneak ADR & Keith Thomas past the NCAA.  The new admin was not going to go through another debacle like that while paying Lav 2+M a year.

The team is thin because Lavin did not stagger recruits, couldn't recruit enough to do so even.  And if you think the next generation of Lavin guys were getting qualified, you'd be dreaming.

Now we have a program that recruits properly and plans what they want to do with recruiting classes.  But Lavin left an awful legacy, left the program a virtual shambles, and this CS will have to make up for the fact that Lavin's crew did not recruit ANYONE in the last two years, and had we some players, now sophomores and juniors and seniors who could  actualy play, who we were paying Lavin exorbitantly to recruit...

Then Mullin would look good off the bat.  Bc for him to come in and land 9 guys in six months, a Herculean exemplar of recruiting, and for the program to be so barren otherwise -- that we can't beat a D2 team....

Mullin is saving our program & cleaning up Lavin's mess.   St. John's has to REBUILD after Lavin.  We are lucky we have the staff we have.

How are Norvelle Pelle, Amir Garrett and Jakar Sampson any different than Marcus LoVett and Kassoum Yakwe?

Lavin might not have been the recruiter at St.John's that he was in 2010, but we've had far worse in the same position. I think it's unfair to disparage everything he did here. He wasn't the guy we had hoped for, but 2 out of 5 successful seasons isn't so terrible when you consider where we'd been.

I'd love nothing more than to see Chris Mullin save this program, but I think we need to stop calling out his recruiting as some kind of incredible accomplishment until there's some evidence of that. So far, these new additions don't even look like college basketball players, at any level.

He can't be blamed for this season's lack of talent either.  You can't speculate on what we might have had if he remained.

Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

I think it's unfair to disparage everything he did here

No it's perfectly fair. He sucked. Won with Norm's players, recruited one class on spec, did nothing in between, unachieved with his seniors, and left the cupboard bare, all the while taking credit for anything that went right while blaming everyone else for his failings. Awful coach, repulsive human being.

Quote from: Poison on November 05, 2015, 11:49:35 PM

I think it's unfair to disparage everything he did here

No it's perfectly fair. He sucked. Won with Norm's players, recruited one class on spec, did nothing in between, unachieved with his seniors, and left the cupboard bare, all the while taking credit for anything that went right while blaming everyone else for his failings. Awful coach, repulsive human being.

I'm not a big Lavin fan, but you can't call out Lavin winning with Norm's players without also acknowledging that Norm almost ruined their entire college careers with his horrible coaching and player development. That POS coach had 1st team Dwight Hardy and 2nd team Justin Brownlee sitting on the bench while starting guys who couldn't throw it in the ocean instead.

And you're wrong about the cupboard being bare. He had guys coming in. They all did an about face and chose other programs. Programs that will probably be much better than we will be this year, and probably next year, too.

You can not throw credit to Lavin by saying he left us Rysheed and Obekpa.  You don't want to build a program with those 2 as your "leaders". Lavin did a horrible job holding his players accountable and any new staff that came in would wanna rid themselves of those 2 guys.  Rysheed didn't answer phone calls from the new staff for a couple of weeks after they came in and Obekpa failed to show up to appointments/workouts on time when new staff arrived. These are both completely reflective on how the previous regime instilled any sort of accountability and discipline, or a lack thereof.

So yes, Lavin is partly accountable for this roster and situation.  With that said, it is still inexcusable to lose to a D2 team the way we did the other night.  Not being able to inbound from opposite baseline numerous times and the reported lack of sideline presence from Mullin and staff is initially worrisome, but hopefully we can chalk this up to them feeling their way through this.

I'm not a big Lavin fan, but you can't call out Lavin winning with Norm's players without also acknowledging that Norm almost ruined their entire college careers with his horrible coaching and player development. That POS coach had 1st team Dwight Hardy and 2nd team Justin Brownlee sitting on the bench while starting guys who couldn't throw it in the ocean instead.

And you're wrong about the cupboard being bare. He had guys coming in. They all did an about face and chose other programs. Programs that will probably be much better than we will be this year, and probably next year, too.

What Norm did or didn't do has nothing to do with what Lavin did. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. Nada. So yeah I can call Lavin out and not mention Norm. I can also not mention Fran, Avagadro's number and the Crimean War, because they have nothing to do with it either. You want to give credit to Lavin for being better than Norm, go ahead: that's a pretty low bar. He was also a more compassionate human being than Richard Speck, I'll stipulate to that right now.

As for the players he had coming in, there were three: a four star in Sampson and two guys no one has ever heard of and who transferred to places you think no one in their right mind would ever live. I mean Virginia? Who want to live there? And Boston, that place is a backwater. No, these guys were sissies who couldn't stand up to the bright lights of NYC and we are better off without them. So this year's roster would have been those three losers, the left overs, all of whom who stink except for Jones - Jessica Albavivovich makes Jasilionustein look like Dirk Nowitski - and our three coveted walk ons, Henderson, Lipscomb and Stewart, at least one of whom would be starting. Mother Hubbard had a better front court.

tldr: Lavin sucks

Sorry, but you can't fire the coach and then also blame him for what you ended up with. You take the good with the bad with Lavin, and if anyone thinks there was no good at all, you must have been in a coma for 6 years before he arrived. No bigger POS than Norm Roberts. Not anywhere in the game as it relates to St.John's.

That's the same logic that blamed Jarvis for the Pittsburgh fiasco 2 months after he was fired.

You can not throw credit to Lavin by saying he left us Rysheed and Obekpa.  You don't want to build a program with those 2 as your "leaders". Lavin did a horrible job holding his players accountable and any new staff that came in would wanna rid themselves of those 2 guys.  Rysheed didn't answer phone calls from the new staff for a couple of weeks after they came in and Obekpa failed to show up to appointments/workouts on time when new staff arrived. These are both completely reflective on how the previous regime instilled any sort of accountability and discipline, or a lack thereof.

So yes, Lavin is partly accountable for this roster and situation.  With that said, it is still inexcusable to lose to a D2 team the way we did the other night.  Not being able to inbound from opposite baseline numerous times and the reported lack of sideline presence from Mullin and staff is initially worrisome, but hopefully we can chalk this up to them feeling their way through this.

Mullin is here because he's supposed to be some kind of basketball savant. If these kids aren't playing smart, is that logic completely F'd? I'd say so. Some may call this a rebuilding year where the coach gets a free pass to do a shit job. That's a load of BS. You play to win, or you don't play at all.

Saturday they had better come out hungry, or they are most certainly going to hear it from the crowd. The small pathetic little crowd this program will produce for an exhibition game, that is.

The team played amazingly  bad. Not saying Mullin should get killed, but he should get more blame then the previous coach. The team didn't look like it had a bad game. If they played tonight I would bet on St. Thomas and I would give 10 points.

The team played amazingly  bad. Not saying Mullin should get killed, but he should get more blame then the previous coach. The team didn't look like it had a bad game. If they played tonight I would bet on St. Thomas and I would give 10 points.

It looked like that was the first day of practice. The entire team was completely lost.

Sorry, but you can't fire the coach and then also blame him for what you ended up with. 

Yeah, cause no one ever blamed Norm and his ten senior class for Lavin having an imbalanced roster.