Providence Game Discussion

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 05:14:50 PM

Quote from: cjfish on January 03, 2016, 04:55:26 PM

It is easy to berate hairgel, fake tan boy.  His best team he inherited from the undeservedly maligned Norm, who developed them while Lavin took the credit.  He signed a great class and then had a hard time qualifying them )pelle Etc), lost Lindsey, coddled DLO, which worked, and Obekpa, who threw him in last year.  Recruited the Delarosa boys...nuff said...and tried to qualify Williams to cover his sorry ass when everyone else apparently thought his t-cript was a joke.  SNAKE OIL SALESMAN.  Never saw a team so new, except for perhaps Norms first team, his legacy.   How soon we forget....Norm inherited a team that was a mess, couldn't recruit because of the mess, and still developed some solid players. 

Undeservedly maligned Norm. You've got to be kidding that shit. Those kids wouldn't never achieved anything if that selfish prick was still coaching them. Norm wasn't nearly maligned enough. That dumb F had Brownlee buried on the bench, and he was too stupid to think of giving Hardy the ball. You can point to Lavin for his failures, but at least he had some success. Born accomplished nothing here. Absolutely nothing, and all of that is 100% on him.

Neither accomplished much. Barely getting an at large with  a top recruiting class as seniors and getting pounded in the 1st round  isn't much to hang your hat on.

for a st johns coach that's actually a lot of accomplishments

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

I think we have a great recruiting class in tow right now

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

The problem with that is you have to put together more than one good class. When you do that you are setting yourself up for trouble down the road when guys leave early  for the NBA like Harkless, fail out or transfer like Nurideen/Amir or when the whole class graduates and there's only one or two decent players left on the roster.

I'd much rather have 3 consecutive solid classes than one good/great class and nothing following. That's how you build a consistent winner
I'd

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 05:14:50 PM

Quote from: cjfish on January 03, 2016, 04:55:26 PM

It is easy to berate hairgel, fake tan boy.  His best team he inherited from the undeservedly maligned Norm, who developed them while Lavin took the credit.  He signed a great class and then had a hard time qualifying them )pelle Etc), lost Lindsey, coddled DLO, which worked, and Obekpa, who threw him in last year.  Recruited the Delarosa boys...nuff said...and tried to qualify Williams to cover his sorry ass when everyone else apparently thought his t-cript was a joke.  SNAKE OIL SALESMAN.  Never saw a team so new, except for perhaps Norms first team, his legacy.   How soon we forget....Norm inherited a team that was a mess, couldn't recruit because of the mess, and still developed some solid players. 

Undeservedly maligned Norm. You've got to be kidding that shit. Those kids wouldn't never achieved anything if that selfish prick was still coaching them. Norm wasn't nearly maligned enough. That dumb F had Brownlee buried on the bench, and he was too stupid to think of giving Hardy the ball. You can point to Lavin for his failures, but at least he had some success. Born accomplished nothing here. Absolutely nothing, and all of that is 100% on him.

Neither accomplished much. Barely getting an at large with  a top recruiting class as seniors and getting pounded in the 1st round  isn't much to hang your hat on.

It isn't if you're comparing us to Uconn to Syracuse. But considering what Norm Roberts did to our program, I think Lavin put us back on the national stage, and to not give him any credit for that isn't fair.

But I don't think you can compare their resumes. Lavin underachieved. Norm didn't achieve anything. In terms of top recruits, Lavin brought in a lot of the guys that in years past, would have gone elsewhere - because of Norm.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

It took him 4 years to take a Top 5 class and get to the dance only to get smoked in the first round.  Our friend Tony defended Lavin to his last day but wants to take shots at Mullin in year 1 when he was left with Felix, Amar and Christian Jones.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

It took him 4 years to take a Top 5 class and get to the dance only to get smoked in the first round.  Our friend Tony defended Lavin to his last day but wants to take shots at Mullin in year 1 when he was left with Felix, Amar and Christian Jones.

that top 5 class wasn't a top 5 class by year 4 because harkless and Jakaar ( also Pelle and garrett ) weren't here so that's not a valid argument.

You could argue that Lavin's biggest problem was that he didn't recruit consistently to sustain. I'd agree with that

He mailed it in the last 2 years, badly, on the recruiting front.  And he had no semblance of roster balance. You don't have to be Kreskin to realize guys like Sampson and Mo weren't staying 4 years.  The only logical explanation is that Lavin thought the tourney last year was sufficient to allow him to rebuild from rock bottom. After 5 years, shame on him, and this coming from a guy who was a huge Lavin supporter until late 2014/early 2015, when I finally saw the writing on the wall.

He mailed it in the last 2 years, badly, on the recruiting front.  And he had no semblance of roster balance. You don't have to be Kreskin to realize guys like Sampson and Mo weren't staying 4 years.  The only logical explanation is that Lavin thought the tourney last year was sufficient to allow him to rebuild from rock bottom. After 5 years, shame on him, and this coming from a guy who was a huge Lavin supporter until late 2014/early 2015, when I finally saw the writing on the wall.

I agree with this. I think he was banking everything on Brisco,Sampson,Diallo at the end

Wait, are you saying the current roster isn't Lavin's fault?  Who else's fault can it be?  Mullin wasn't hired until March, the assistants after.  Are you actually saying that they deserve more blame than Lavin?  That is insane. You can start pointing the fingers next year, or, more fairly, the year after, on this staff's roster construction.  This season is all on our ex coach. No staff can be legitimately expected to assemble an entire roster in the late spring/early roster. The fact that we got some of the guys we landed is a miracle.

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

I can't blame Mullin for the roster this year. He was dealt an impossible hand. He did about as well as could be reasonably expected assembling a roster for a new coach coming in. I'd say even a better job than what could be reasonably expected

Wait, are you saying the current roster isn't Lavin's fault?  Who else's fault can it be?  Mullin wasn't hired until March, the assistants after.  Are you actually saying that they deserve more blame than Lavin?  That is insane. You can start pointing the fingers next year, or, more fairly, the year after, on this staff's roster construction.  This season is all on our ex coach. No staff can be legitimately expected to assemble an entire roster in the late spring/early roster. The fact that we got some of the guys we landed is a miracle.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

What I'm saying is that he was fired before he had a chance to finish his roster for this season. It's not fair to credit Mullin with putting together this wonderful 7-8 shitbox of a team, without also acknowledging that Lavin didn't have the spring and summer add players. A period, that he has been successful with in the past.

We don't know if Lavin would have landed Mussini and also retained Sampson. We don't know if Obekpa would have stuck around. And I guess I'm in the minority in wanting him back. I think he would have great this year.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

It took him 4 years to take a Top 5 class and get to the dance only to get smoked in the first round.  Our friend Tony defended Lavin to his last day but wants to take shots at Mullin in year 1 when he was left with Felix, Amar and Christian Jones.

The insubordination was a big reason his teams never reached their full potential.
I generally want the most skilled players available.
But, at some point you have to ask what good is a top 5 recruiting class if your SG is an emotional headcase and will need to be suspended indefinitely as a soph. (Eliminating the small chance we had at making the postseason).
And the situation is much much worse with Jordan and Obekpa.
If he didnt recruit two sociopaths... this years team would be competing in the middle of the conference.   

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 03, 2016, 08:05:29 PM

Wait, are you saying the current roster isn't Lavin's fault?  Who else's fault can it be?  Mullin wasn't hired until March, the assistants after.  Are you actually saying that they deserve more blame than Lavin?  That is insane. You can start pointing the fingers next year, or, more fairly, the year after, on this staff's roster construction.  This season is all on our ex coach. No staff can be legitimately expected to assemble an entire roster in the late spring/early roster. The fact that we got some of the guys we landed is a miracle.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

What I'm saying is that he was fired before he had a chance to finish his roster for this season. It's not fair to credit Mullin with putting together this wonderful 7-8 shitbox of a team, without also acknowledging that Lavin didn't have the spring and summer add players. A period, that he has been successful with in the past.

We don't know if Lavin would have landed Mussini and also retained Sampson. We don't know if Obekpa would have stuck around. And I guess I'm in the minority in wanting him back. I think he would have great this year.

Great? Grabbing guys like Amar and ADR late in the game is hardly great.

Mussini would have likely been here yes. Jordan was flunking out. Obekpa was 50-50 at best and if he did return likely would have been suspended for his cloud of smoke. Yes chatter is Diallo would have been here if Lavin was here. But would he have gotten eligible since we are not as proactive as Kansas in pushing for answers from NCAA?  He might have very well garnered a top 10 class again. Just like he did for his 2nd year. But no guarantee we would haven't the same issue that Lavin fans pointed out above that there were so many defections that's why it took 4 years to dance.

We just chose to press reset button after last year. If we want to compare apples to apples we wait until 5 years of Mullin and see where we stand. I just hope this staff can manage a roster better and not play catchup every year like we did under Lavin. So far so good but we haven't had defections yet.

We just chose to press reset button after last year. If we want to compare apples to apples we wait until 5 years of Mullin and see where we stand. I just hope this staff can manage a roster better and not play catchup every year like we did under Lavin. So far so good but we haven't had defections yet.

agree on the catchup thing. Hopefully in years to come we aren't scrambling at the end of the year to fill major roster pieces. I'm hoping that with Matt A's juco connections and utilizing 5th year grad transfers that mainly it will be just isolating situations to fill and enhance

Lavin inherited a veteran team that his predecessor couldn't coach to their best.  Lavin got them to perform and make the NCAA's but the lopsided team of primarily seniors was not corrected in Lavin's first true recruiting year when he did nothing to correct our team "balance" problems by bringing in all frosh (not a bunch of 5 stars) and not bringing some balance by bringing in some JUCO's and transfers to balance the scholarship distribution.  There after it was difficult to recruit as there were 5 starters ahead of any potential recruits.  The current staff at least have tried to balance things.  Hopefully it works out. 

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 08:44:32 PM

Quote from: prjohnnies on January 03, 2016, 08:05:29 PM

Wait, are you saying the current roster isn't Lavin's fault?  Who else's fault can it be?  Mullin wasn't hired until March, the assistants after.  Are you actually saying that they deserve more blame than Lavin?  That is insane. You can start pointing the fingers next year, or, more fairly, the year after, on this staff's roster construction.  This season is all on our ex coach. No staff can be legitimately expected to assemble an entire roster in the late spring/early roster. The fact that we got some of the guys we landed is a miracle.

Quote from: Poison on January 03, 2016, 07:30:13 PM

Quote from: Moose on January 03, 2016, 07:27:09 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 03, 2016, 06:22:02 PM

We are 3 years from having the possibility of having a top recruiting class and losing in the first round MAYBE! I think some of you like losing.

And we would be in the same place with your buddy too.

Maybe, but Lavin was coming off back to back 20 win seasons. We don't get to blame Lavin for what he isn't here to work with. What we have now, is our own fault. Every ounce of it.

What I'm saying is that he was fired before he had a chance to finish his roster for this season. It's not fair to credit Mullin with putting together this wonderful 7-8 shitbox of a team, without also acknowledging that Lavin didn't have the spring and summer add players. A period, that he has been successful with in the past.

We don't know if Lavin would have landed Mussini and also retained Sampson. We don't know if Obekpa would have stuck around. And I guess I'm in the minority in wanting him back. I think he would have great this year.

Great? Grabbing guys like Amar and ADR late in the game is hardly great.

Mussini would have likely been here yes. Jordan was flunking out. Obekpa was 50-50 at best and if he did return likely would have been suspended for his cloud of smoke. Yes chatter is Diallo would have been here if Lavin was here. But would he have gotten eligible since we are not as proactive as Kansas in pushing for answers from NCAA?  He might have very well garnered a top 10 class again. Just like he did for his 2nd year. But no guarantee we would haven't the same issue that Lavin fans pointed out above that there were so many defections that's why it took 4 years to dance.

I never said like Amar and ADR was great. I said that i expected Obekpa to be great, and he improved quite a bit last year, so that's not really so absurd.