Willard's job was seemingly on the line, so he did what a desperate man would do, he got the kid he needed that he thought would turn it around. I won't give him credit for Whitehead.
However I will give him credit for Carrington and Desi. Lav dropped the ball on Carrington. I remember Chiles recruiting him aggressively at one point and we had strong momentum then it just stopped. Clearly, he would have been a great get. He wouldn't have played as much as he did for us last year, but Lavin could have made it work.
Overall, I would say Seton Hall getting it done with a soph class of local kids basically reflects how bad Lavin was recruiting the last 2 years.
Carrington wanted to play with Whitehead, so whoever got Whitehead also got Carrington. Whitehead was the one who Willard chaeated to get. So he does not get credit really for Carrington in my mind. To me he is just a big cheater.
Can you point me to the rule that Willard violated. I've tried looking it up and I can't find it. I know what he did seems slimy but I can find an actual violation. You've called him out in no uncertain terms as a cheater. I just can't find the rule that he broke.
Because there isn't one. Good post.
Not such a good post. The rule clearly stated that you can hire the high school coach of a recruit, but the hire "cannot be a contingency of the commitment". Now you could never prove this unless the school was stupid enough to writ e the contingency into the contract, but if you really believe it was not a package deal, I don't know what to say.
Why was it already known 8 months before the job opening was even posted that Tiny would be on the staff, for example? And of all the people in the country that the job could have gone to, why did it go to the high school coach of the All American recruit they had coming in? I mean come on. You don';t even suspect foul play? Even Tiny himself was quoted as saying " I asked Coach Lavin why he didn't have a spot for me on his staff". That was from Tiny himself, after the story that he was given a job on the Seton Hall staff, for the next season, broke. And you don't even. . . . ."suspect" it was a package deal?
Recruiting rules seem to have been taken down except for the timing of when coaches can see players and visits can take place. I'll try to see if I can research some articles regarding this sham recruitment. I've seen a couple of articles, from the Times for example, saying it was OK to do what he did, but those articles don't make any sense. Post them and they will be torn apart.
Please cite the specific rule number. I downloaded the NCAA recruiting bylaws and I can't find a violation. I don't care about "articles regarding this sham recruitment." I'm asking for a specific rule number.
Here's what I found: (I apologize for the length)
_____________________
11.4 EmploymentofHighSchool,PreparatorySchoolorTwo-YearCollege Coaches, or Other Individuals Associated With Prospective Student- Athletes.
11.4.1 High School, Preparatory School or Two-Year College Coach. An institution may not em- ploy a high school, preparatory school or two-year college coach who remains a coach in the same sport at the high school, preparatory school or two-year college. is provision does not preclude employment of a high school, preparatory school or two-year college coach in a di erent sport. Men’s and women’s teams in the same sport are considered di erent sports for purposes of this legislation. Men’s and women’s teams in the same sport are consid- ered di erent sports even if an athlete from the opposite gender is playing on a high school, preparatory school or two-year college men’s or women’s team, provided the team is classi ed as a separate team (as opposed to a “mixed” team) by the appropriate institution or the state high school, preparatory school or two-year college governing body. (See Bylaw 13.12.2.2 for regulations relating to the employment of high school, preparatory school or two- year college coaches in institutional camps or clinics.) (Revised: 1/10/91, 3/16/07, 1/16/10)
11.4.1.1 Contract for Future Employment. An institution is permitted to enter into a contractual agree- ment with a high school, preparatory school or two-year college coach for an employment opportunity that begins with the next academic year, provided the employment contract with the member institution is not con- tingent upon the enrollment of a prospective student-athlete and the coach does not begin any coaching duties (e.g., recruiting, selection of coaching sta ) for the member institution while remaining associated with the high school, preparatory school or two-year college.
11.4.2 Individual Associated with a Prospective Student-Athlete—Men’s Basketball. In men’s basketball, during a two-year period before a prospective student-athlete’s anticipated enrollment and a two-year period after the prospective student-athlete’s actual enrollment, an institution shall not employ (or en- ter into a contract for future employment with) an individual associated with the prospective student-athlete in any athletics department noncoaching sta position or in a strength and conditioning sta position. (Adopted: 1/16/10; a contract signed before 10/29/09 may be honored, Revised: 6/17/11)
11.4.2.1 Application. A violation of Bylaw 11.4.2 occurs if an individual associated with a prospective stu- dent-athlete (see Bylaw 13.02.17) is employed by the institution and, at the time of employment, a student- athlete who enrolled at the institution in the previous two years (and remains enrolled at the institution) was a prospective student-athlete by which the individual meets the de nition of an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete. A violation of Bylaw 11.4.2 also occurs if an individual associated with a prospec- tive student-athlete is employed and, within two years after such employment, a prospective student-athlete by which the individual meets the de nition of an individual associated with a prospective student-athlete enrolls as a full-time student in a regular academic term at the institution. In either case, the student-athlete becomes ineligible for intercollegiate competition unless eligibility is restored by the Committee on Student-Athlete Re- instatement. (Adopted: 6/20/13)
_____________________________
The rule forbids hiring the Individual associated with the student athlete for a non-coaching position. Tiny was given an assistant coach position. That is permissible. This has been discussed on these boards ad nauseum. Yet, you make categorical and absolute statements without the ability to provide anything to substantiate your accusations.
I am not a Willard or Seton Hall fan and I hated how the Whitehead recruiting saga unfolded. But, come on! Don't make such inflammatory allegations if you don't know what you are talking about. I am not trying to attack you. I thought you might know something and that I might be wrong. But that doesn't appear to be the case. I just want to set the record straight.