Slice

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: braintrust on June 08, 2016, 06:13:55 PM

Reading between the lines of the Zac article...twelve months ago CM started assembling a staff. He knew he needed recruiters and he needed X and O guys. Matt A, an SJU grad who knew Chris, was an obvious choice for recruiting. St Jean, more of an unknown, might have been brought in due to CM's relationship with his father, or maybe he interviewed really well from an X and O perspective. CM looked at Slice as one who were be given preference to do both, why else bring him in?

As time went by, St Jean earned more of CM's trust as an X and O; Matt earned more of CM's trust as a recruiter. As an older guy, Slice said to himself, "what am I doing here playing second fiddle in recruiting and strategy"? Slice is taking his bruised ego down the road, possibly to more familiar pastures. Much like the veteran ballplayer being replaced by the younger prospect.

I always preferred a more experienced X and O guy. Some one with in game coaching experience. Dunlap would be perfect, Tim Welsh, Pete Gillen have been mentioned. I also threw Mark Jackson out there. Just give us someone who can work strategy, especially teach defense, and has college coaching experience.

How did St Jean "earn" CM's trust.  We were 1-17 in conference.  There isn't a poster on this board who could have done worse.  Let's get an x and o guy here pronto.

Right that is why they went 1-17, the same reason Tom Crean went 1-17 and 6-25 in his first year at Indiana, because his assistants were dopes.

Seriously get a clue please.

This is the same mantra we heard when Norm was sucking the life out of the program.  Since you didn't understand what I wrote, I bristled at the term "earned".  How does 1-17 earn you anything except being escorted to the exits? 

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

And for those who think the guys we had last season suck the big one, it sure didn't sound like that on this board when they were deciding whether to sign with us or go elsewhere.  What happened?

I'm sensing huge dysfunction in the athletic department.  That doesn't bode well for the future of an already shitty program.

Yeah at least the other assistant is working his off for more than half the Slice man was getting.

Quote from: fordham96 on June 10, 2016, 08:42:21 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: braintrust on June 08, 2016, 06:13:55 PM

Reading between the lines of the Zac article...twelve months ago CM started assembling a staff. He knew he needed recruiters and he needed X and O guys. Matt A, an SJU grad who knew Chris, was an obvious choice for recruiting. St Jean, more of an unknown, might have been brought in due to CM's relationship with his father, or maybe he interviewed really well from an X and O perspective. CM looked at Slice as one who were be given preference to do both, why else bring him in?

As time went by, St Jean earned more of CM's trust as an X and O; Matt earned more of CM's trust as a recruiter. As an older guy, Slice said to himself, "what am I doing here playing second fiddle in recruiting and strategy"? Slice is taking his bruised ego down the road, possibly to more familiar pastures. Much like the veteran ballplayer being replaced by the younger prospect.

I always preferred a more experienced X and O guy. Some one with in game coaching experience. Dunlap would be perfect, Tim Welsh, Pete Gillen have been mentioned. I also threw Mark Jackson out there. Just give us someone who can work strategy, especially teach defense, and has college coaching experience.

How did St Jean "earn" CM's trust.  We were 1-17 in conference.  There isn't a poster on this board who could have done worse.  Let's get an x and o guy here pronto.

Right that is why they went 1-17, the same reason Tom Crean went 1-17 and 6-25 in his first year at Indiana, because his assistants were dopes.

Seriously get a clue please.

This is the same mantra we heard when Norm was sucking the life out of the program.  Since you didn't understand what I wrote, I bristled at the term "earned".  How does 1-17 earn you anything except being escorted to the exits? 

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

And for those who think the guys we had last season suck the big one, it sure didn't sound like that on this board when they were deciding whether to sign with us or go elsewhere.  What happened?

I'm sensing huge dysfunction in the athletic department.  That doesn't bode well for the future of an already shitty program.

A staff of Jay Wright, Coach K, Bill Self and Brad Stevens would have won MAYBE 1 more game with that squad last year. Maybe.

Quote from: fordham96 on June 10, 2016, 08:42:21 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: braintrust on June 08, 2016, 06:13:55 PM

Reading between the lines of the Zac article...twelve months ago CM started assembling a staff. He knew he needed recruiters and he needed X and O guys. Matt A, an SJU grad who knew Chris, was an obvious choice for recruiting. St Jean, more of an unknown, might have been brought in due to CM's relationship with his father, or maybe he interviewed really well from an X and O perspective. CM looked at Slice as one who were be given preference to do both, why else bring him in?

As time went by, St Jean earned more of CM's trust as an X and O; Matt earned more of CM's trust as a recruiter. As an older guy, Slice said to himself, "what am I doing here playing second fiddle in recruiting and strategy"? Slice is taking his bruised ego down the road, possibly to more familiar pastures. Much like the veteran ballplayer being replaced by the younger prospect.

I always preferred a more experienced X and O guy. Some one with in game coaching experience. Dunlap would be perfect, Tim Welsh, Pete Gillen have been mentioned. I also threw Mark Jackson out there. Just give us someone who can work strategy, especially teach defense, and has college coaching experience.

How did St Jean "earn" CM's trust.  We were 1-17 in conference.  There isn't a poster on this board who could have done worse.  Let's get an x and o guy here pronto.

Right that is why they went 1-17, the same reason Tom Crean went 1-17 and 6-25 in his first year at Indiana, because his assistants were dopes.

Seriously get a clue please.

This is the same mantra we heard when Norm was sucking the life out of the program.  Since you didn't understand what I wrote, I bristled at the term "earned".  How does 1-17 earn you anything except being escorted to the exits? 

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

And for those who think the guys we had last season suck the big one, it sure didn't sound like that on this board when they were deciding whether to sign with us or go elsewhere.  What happened?

I'm sensing huge dysfunction in the athletic department.  That doesn't bode well for the future of an already shitty program.

Right, so your excuse is that because Norm did not win after the first few years there is never any justification for a team struggling after the first few years. 

Another great post.

So you would have fired Tom Crean at a blue blood school like Indiana, right?  Because there is never an excuse for going 1-17 right?

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

So you're upset because they went 1-17 instead of 2-16? If that's the case you are definitely going to be excited by the 2016 2017 version of the Red Storm, because I can see them going 5-12 easy.

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 01:45:32 PM

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

So you're upset because they went 1-17 instead of 2-16? If that's the case you are definitely going to be excited by the 2016 2017 version of the Red Storm, because I can see them going 5-12 easy.

Right, exactly.  Not only is does he make nice personic arguments but he is disingenuous.  The idea that you would be happy if SJU was 2-16 but not 1-17 is nonsense.

While I agree that outside of bringing in the Ghost of John Wooden as assistant coach it would not have made much difference who his assistant's were last year and really shouldn't going forward. However Mullin did bring this nonsense on himself by handing over the dry board to ST Jean. I believe that is why so much is being made of who his assistant is and need for X and O guy. I am of the belief that Mullin would be fine as his own X and O guy but that is why the handing over of the huddle to ST jean was so odd.

While I agree that outside of bringing in the Ghost of John Wooden as assistant coach it would not have made much difference who his assistant's were last year and really shouldn't going forward. However Mullin did bring this nonsense on himself by handing over the dry board to ST Jean. I believe that is why so much is being made of who his assistant is and need for X and O guy. I am of the belief that Mullin would be fine as his own X and O guy but that is why the handing over of the huddle to ST jean was so odd.

Except, again, that Mullin says I tell him what to do and he does it. In any other arena you'd applaud a guy for delegating responsibility and focusing on the big picture instead of micromanaging like Leona Helmsley, who by all accounts was a monster. Did Jim Calhoun wield the white board? Did Lou? Maybe that's Saint Jean's job, to draw the pictures Mullin sees in his mind's eye. This is all about appearances. If they were winning no one would care who drew what or where Mullin sat while they were doing it.   

Quote from: we are sju on June 10, 2016, 03:40:40 PM

While I agree that outside of bringing in the Ghost of John Wooden as assistant coach it would not have made much difference who his assistant's were last year and really shouldn't going forward. However Mullin did bring this nonsense on himself by handing over the dry board to ST Jean. I believe that is why so much is being made of who his assistant is and need for X and O guy. I am of the belief that Mullin would be fine as his own X and O guy but that is why the handing over of the huddle to ST jean was so odd.

Except, again, that Mullin says I tell him what to do and he does it. In any other arena you'd applaud a guy for delegating responsibility and focusing on the big picture instead of micromanaging like Leona Helmsley, who by all accounts was a monster. Did Jim Calhoun wield the white board? Did Lou? Maybe that's Saint Jean's job, to draw the pictures Mullin sees in his mind's eye. This is all about appearances. If they were winning no one would care who drew what or where Mullin sat while they were doing it.   

I agree except since we were not going to win for a few years stuff like this was going to get noticed. Also since this was his first job and it is Chris Mullin I think people paid more attention to it then they would otherwise. I know I noticed it and couldn't tell you who did the actual diagramming for any other ST John's coach. Though in fairness I do not think Lavin, Norm, Jarvis or Mahoney ran any plays so  no one had to draw up anything. 

Quote from: Foad on June 10, 2016, 03:12:08 PM

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 01:45:32 PM

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

So you're upset because they went 1-17 instead of 2-16? If that's the case you are definitely going to be excited by the 2016 2017 version of the Red Storm, because I can see them going 5-12 easy.

Right, exactly.  Not only is does he make nice personic arguments but he is disingenuous.  The idea that you would be happy if SJU was 2-16 but not 1-17 is nonsense.

True, but Krusty is a relentless curmudgeon, which makes him a bit lovable, you have to give him that. No one - not even a strategic genius like Norm Roberts - could have done anything with last year's motley collection of loosers. About this there can be no debate.   

Quote from: Foad on June 10, 2016, 04:54:38 PM

Quote from: we are sju on June 10, 2016, 03:40:40 PM

While I agree that outside of bringing in the Ghost of John Wooden as assistant coach it would not have made much difference who his assistant's were last year and really shouldn't going forward. However Mullin did bring this nonsense on himself by handing over the dry board to ST Jean. I believe that is why so much is being made of who his assistant is and need for X and O guy. I am of the belief that Mullin would be fine as his own X and O guy but that is why the handing over of the huddle to ST jean was so odd.

Except, again, that Mullin says I tell him what to do and he does it. In any other arena you'd applaud a guy for delegating responsibility and focusing on the big picture instead of micromanaging like Leona Helmsley, who by all accounts was a monster. Did Jim Calhoun wield the white board? Did Lou? Maybe that's Saint Jean's job, to draw the pictures Mullin sees in his mind's eye. This is all about appearances. If they were winning no one would care who drew what or where Mullin sat while they were doing it.   

I agree except since we were not going to win for a few years stuff like this was going to get noticed. Also since this was his first job and it is Chris Mullin I think people paid more attention to it then they would otherwise. I know I noticed it and couldn't tell you who did the actual diagramming for any other ST John's coach. Though in fairness I do not think Lavin, Norm, Jarvis or Mahoney ran any plays so  no one had to draw up anything. 

Lavin pretty much ran one play: someone make a play. Jarvis ran pretty much one play also: for god sake Marcus do something. Norm had the genius that was Glen Braica wielding the white board. Fortunately I have no memory of the Mahoney years. Fran was probably drawing pictures of his cock. Lou was all about preparation in practice and I don't even know if white boards were invented back then. I say again: despite whatever anything looks like to anyone thus far, we will know whether this experiment is a failure or a success by mid January of next year. If they are 3-11, that's when the bitching should start. Until then all of this angst is sound and fury by professional malcontents, signifying the off season.

Quote from: fordham96 on June 10, 2016, 08:42:21 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on June 10, 2016, 08:27:47 AM

Quote from: braintrust on June 08, 2016, 06:13:55 PM

Reading between the lines of the Zac article...twelve months ago CM started assembling a staff. He knew he needed recruiters and he needed X and O guys. Matt A, an SJU grad who knew Chris, was an obvious choice for recruiting. St Jean, more of an unknown, might have been brought in due to CM's relationship with his father, or maybe he interviewed really well from an X and O perspective. CM looked at Slice as one who were be given preference to do both, why else bring him in?

As time went by, St Jean earned more of CM's trust as an X and O; Matt earned more of CM's trust as a recruiter. As an older guy, Slice said to himself, "what am I doing here playing second fiddle in recruiting and strategy"? Slice is taking his bruised ego down the road, possibly to more familiar pastures. Much like the veteran ballplayer being replaced by the younger prospect.

I always preferred a more experienced X and O guy. Some one with in game coaching experience. Dunlap would be perfect, Tim Welsh, Pete Gillen have been mentioned. I also threw Mark Jackson out there. Just give us someone who can work strategy, especially teach defense, and has college coaching experience.

How did St Jean "earn" CM's trust.  We were 1-17 in conference.  There isn't a poster on this board who could have done worse.  Let's get an x and o guy here pronto.

Right that is why they went 1-17, the same reason Tom Crean went 1-17 and 6-25 in his first year at Indiana, because his assistants were dopes.

Seriously get a clue please.

This is the same mantra we heard when Norm was sucking the life out of the program.  Since you didn't understand what I wrote, I bristled at the term "earned".  How does 1-17 earn you anything except being escorted to the exits? 

For FOAD, I won't bore the masses with a list of assistants who could have won at least one or two more games.

This is like judging someone's ability to pickup chicks by having them prepare and send in single Baldi, Marillac, Tha Kid, Moose, and WASJU to pickup groups of Australian lingerie models.

Going back to my original point of reading between the lines, CM was building a staff. He turned to Slice. He tells Slice, "I am going to lean on you for help with game coaching and recruiting, you are my guy." Why else would Slice leave a cake job like Kentucky?

CM tells Slice, "I am also bringing Matt A to help w/ recruiting, and this guy St Jean for X and O and game prep. I know his father from the NBA, he'll be okay." Slice must know Matt A, but hardly knows St Jean. Over time, Slice sees CM interact more w/ St Jean and give St Jean more responsibility, hence the "earn the trust" comment. Matt A has success recruiting, Slice doesn't feel the love from CM and becomes detached. You could see his lack of interest on the sidelines this year. Key points...

1. I'm not saying St Jean was qualified to take over coaching and game prep. He obviously wasn't. But, you don't need a lot of talent to play defense. This team was abysmal playing team defense. Routinely, we were giving up 50 points by halftime, and it was only mercy of the other team that kept them under 100 points.

2. Did CM really tell Slice it was time for him to go? Are we really on the hook for the rest of Slice's contract?

3. We now have two coaching positions to fill. Before telling Zendon and Slice to get lost, CM must have other candidates to fill those positions. Hopefully they are good candidates.

If Richmond takes Slice's assistant slot, then they are back at the max of three.

 its would then remain uncertain if they would then backfill Richmond's special assistant role, and Zendon's volunteer role should have been unpaid, so remains to be seen if that would be replaced.

if they are still paying Slice's buyout, case could be made that they don't add.

Before telling Zendon and Slice to get lost, CM must have other candidates to fill those positions. Hopefully they are good candidates.

Yeah, Mitch and someone like mo hatten

I find it funny that a 23 year old with little to no experience is put in charge of coaching and preparing a big east team is considered the weak link. The kid seems like he is trying, the players look to him. (Those of you who don't go to games can't always see that).
Why was he put in this position? Why do the other coaches resemble spectators? What team does anything resembling this? If st. Jean is coaching during the game, it is reasonable to say he is running most of the practices.
(Again many who don't go games, hear what the coaches say) I often sit very close to then bench. I rarely Hear what anyone says. But st. Jeans seems to be working his ass off, with out much help from anyone. (Zendon did talk to players on the bench)
Maybe the kid needs some help? It is not hard to coach basketball

If Richmond takes Slice's assistant slot, then they are back at the max of three.

 its would then remain uncertain if they would then backfill Richmond's special assistant role, and Zendon's volunteer role should have been unpaid, so remains to be seen if that would be replaced.

if they are still paying Slice's buyout, case could be made that they don't add.

Correct

DaVinci could be living right now and tell me what he wants drawn and what I draw isn't going to necessarily going to look like his vision and it definitely won't if he is standing around while everyone else is standing around me watching me draw while he isn't even looking at what I'm drawing

DaVinci could be living right now and tell me what he wants drawn and what I draw isn't going to necessarily going to look like his vision and it definitely won't if he is standing around while everyone else is standing around me watching me draw while he isn't even looking at what I'm drawing

Baijiu abuse Mike?

Quote from: mjmaherjr on June 10, 2016, 08:22:33 PM

DaVinci could be living right now and tell me what he wants drawn and what I draw isn't going to necessarily going to look like his vision and it definitely won't if he is standing around while everyone else is standing around me watching me draw while he isn't even looking at what I'm drawing

Baijiu abuse Mike?

HAAAAAAA. After 30+ hours of flying and layovers and a really turbulent flight ( no one crying though )I should have drank that stuff.  No drinking for us today because can't be hungover for hiking the great wall tomorrow and it's hot as hell here right now and tomorrow it's going to be close to 95