6th Man of St. John's Basketball
St. John's Red Storm => In The Jungle... => Topic started by: QuanMan on May 06, 2020, 02:42:01 PM
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https://www.zagsblog.com/2020/05/06/monmouth-transfer-ray-salnave-trims-list-to-three/
By ADAM ZAGORIA
Monmouth grad transfer Ray Salnave has trimmed his list to three schools.
The 6-foot-3 former Cardozo High School star is down to DePaul, Loyola Marymount and St. John’s. He averaged 14.5 points, 4.5 rebounds and 3.2 assists last season.
He broke down his three options:
St. John’s – “It would be great to be back home and play in NYC again. Important for my family and loved ones.”
LMU – “Coach [Stan] Johnson seems very promising and he’s made me feel very comfortable. One of the few head coaches that were direct and up front with me about plans.”
DePaul – “They’ve also made me feel really comfortable throughout the process and I think they also can be promising.”
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https://www.zagsblog.com/2020/05/06/monmouth-transfer-ray-salnave-trims-list-to-three/
By ADAM ZAGORIA
Monmouth grad transfer Ray Salnave has trimmed his list to three schools.
The 6-foot-3 former Cardozo High School star is down to DePaul, Loyola Marymount and St. John’s. He averaged 14.5 points, 4.5 rebounds and 3.2 assists last season.
He broke down his three options:
St. John’s – “It would be great to be back home and play in NYC again. Important for my family and loved ones.”
LMU – “Coach [Stan] Johnson seems very promising and he’s made me feel very comfortable. One of the few head coaches that were direct and up front with me about plans.”
DePaul – “They’ve also made me feel really comfortable throughout the process and I think they also can be promising.”
How good is he? If this is a replacement for LJ, I think it’s a reach. He was a quality MAAC player, but not a star player. Shot well from 3, but under 40% from the floor. The BE won’t it easier to raise that percentage.
I guess it depends on how they use him. Does he fill the role that Marco Bourgault and Max Hooper were supposed to fill in 15-18 minutes a game?
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From what I recall our recruitment of him was limited in 2016.
Outsider's guess is he's swapping in for McGriff, with all due respect to the young man- give me a senior with above average stats across all columns over a undersized McGriff. He'll bring wins.
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From what I recall our recruitment of him was limited in 2016.
Outsider's guess is he's swapping in for McGriff, with all due respect to the young man- give me a senior with above average stats across all columns over a undersized McGriff. He'll bring wins.
Hopefully, but I’m concerned about his turnovers and cold shooting games.
Do you know if he’s a point guard in the BE? If so, McGriff may be on the way out. If he’s not a point guard, I’d rather keep McGriff.
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McGriff is the biggest punching bag recruit on here without ever playing a game. Tough wrap.
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He’s better than Rutherford but his stats don’t say PG.
I don’t know what he adds over Dunn and Williams. We’re all set on 6’3 and under guards.
Perez is the guy to add if it’s not too late.
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He’s better than Rutherford but his stats don’t say PG.
I don’t know what he adds over Dunn and Williams. We’re all set on 6’3 and under guards.
Perez is the guy to add if it’s not too late.
I agree. I thought Perez was the better fit too. Unfortunately, it's too late.
https://twitter.com/showout_zayy15/status/1256969768155914243?s=20
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If Salnave comes, and McGriff leaves, we’d be entering the season with Posh Alexander as our point guard, and Rasheem Dunn as our back up point guard/two guard.
If Posh gets hurt, or even if he gets into foul trouble, which freshman are known to do, that makes Dunn our primary, and only point guard.
Maybe Dunn will have matured to the point where he can, but I think learning a new position, especially one as complicated as the point, will be asking too much.
I’d prefer if McGriff stays, and our point guard depth is...
Posh - McGriff - Dunn - and then whoever has the best handle out of the remaining players. If LJ stays, its probably him.
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Loyola Marymount hasn't been good since they had Hank Gathers and Bo Kimble and Depaul is the only BE program even more pathetic than us.
We should be a lock.
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But Depaul offers more PT against similar competition . Where do y'all see minutes for him? Guard spots are kind of tight. And I know a lot of people want McGriff gone but last time I check we don't have any commits for 2021. And ST.johns is in the epicenter I don't foresee a lot of visits next year.
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Some of you are so preconditioned to the revolving door shit here it's very bizarre. Be happy with the roster we have for next year. It's the deepest, most complete one we've had in forever.
We need true PG's. That is what McGriff is. I hope he stays because you need quality floor generals. This kid Salnave like the other kid Perez are not point guards. We have enough 2 guards on the team.
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Some of you are so preconditioned to the revolving door shit here it's very bizarre. Be happy with the roster we have for next year. It's the deepest, most complete one we've had in forever.
We need true PG's. That is what McGriff is. I hope he stays because you need quality floor generals. This kid Salnave like the other kid Perez are not point guards. We have enough 2 guards on the team.
Exactly. We need 2 points, at least on every team. St.John's has been consistent in so few areas over the last 30 years. Not having enough, or even a point guard is one of them.
Now people actually want to replace a point guard with a MAAC player. Not a great MAAC player, but a decent one. Maybe. And one that has in no way proven that he can play in the BE. There's a reason why some kids go to the MAAC. It's a good fit for them. I wish Ray Salnave all the best, but I think he'd be foolish to go to St.John's, and we'd be foolish to trade McGriff for him.
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Ray Salnave was a poor man's Isaiah Whitehead with more baggage. He can score the rock and he's like a slightly taller Rasheem Dunn. If he had his act together he would have been Big East player from the jump.
What I'm wondering is I can't see him having larger role here than he did at Monmouth nor is he missing piece to team to make deep NCAA run. He's also not a great decision maker on the floor and worry about his addition with lack of structure already.
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Ray Salnave was a poor man's Isaiah Whitehead with more baggage. He can score the rock and he's like a slightly taller Rasheem Dunn. If he had his act together he would have been Big East player from the jump.
What I'm wondering is I can't see him having larger role here than he did at Monmouth nor is he missing piece to team to make deep NCAA run. He's also not a great decision maker on the floor and worry about his addition with lack of structure already.
LOL 🙄
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Ray Salnave was a poor man's Isaiah Whitehead with more baggage. He can score the rock and he's like a slightly taller Rasheem Dunn. If he had his act together he would have been Big East player from the jump.
What I'm wondering is I can't see him having larger role here than he did at Monmouth nor is he missing piece to team to make deep NCAA run. He's also not a great decision maker on the floor and worry about his addition with lack of structure already.
What kinda baggage? A broken heart ;)
He seems ok. Not thrilling, but ok.
To his credit, he’s improved his production every season. Maybe he can finally put it all together? You never know when a kid figures it out, or even just matures. If we’re losing LJ, which I can see happening, Salnave can replace some of his scoring. If we’re losing McGriff, I’m concerned that we’ll have one point guard and seven off guards.
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What kinda baggage? A broken heart ;)
He seems ok. Not thrilling, but ok.
To his credit, he’s improved his production every season. Maybe he can finally put it all together? You never know when a kid figures it out, or even just matures. If we’re losing LJ, which I can see happening, Salnave can replace some of his scoring. If we’re losing McGriff, I’m concerned that we’ll have one point guard and seven off guards.
Salnave is not a point and he's not quick. Also the baggage to nicely put it he's a knucklehead. LJ is taking max credits this semester so connect the dots.
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Salnave is not a point and he's not quick. Also the baggage to nicely put it he's a knucklehead. LJ is taking max credits this semester so connect the dots.
Thanks for sharing. Their stats last season are almost the same across the board. Only small difference is that LJ played in the BE ;)
If it’s already done, and he’s coming, let’s hope he makes the most of his opportunity.
It’s been quite some time since we all first heard about him. Who knows, maybe it can have a happy ending?
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Thanks for sharing. Their stats last season are almost the same across the board. Only small difference is that LJ played in the BE ;)
If it’s already done, and he’s coming, let’s hope he makes the most of his opportunity.
It’s been quite some time since we all first heard about him. Who knows, maybe it can have a happy ending?
There is nothing wrong with optimism but Ray Salnave is not helping us move up in the Big East.
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There is nothing wrong with optimism but Ray Salnave is not helping us move up in the Big East.
This choice of player is puzzling to me. Coach Anderson hasn’t brought in knuckleheads so far. I wonder if the staff has tried to land others and just missed on them?
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Salnave is not a point and he's not quick. Also the baggage to nicely put it he's a knucklehead. LJ is taking max credits this semester so connect the dots.
Does that mean he’s staying?
Just asking
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There is nothing wrong with optimism but Ray Salnave is not helping us move up in the Big East.
With all due respect I’m gonna continue to take mike Anderson’s track record over yours.
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It was more than a year ago but Salnave was suspended two games by Rice King for ``conduct unbecoming of a Monmouth Basketball player.''
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.app.com/amp/2726995002
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With all due respect I’m gonna continue to take mike Anderson’s track record over yours.
Coach Anderson has brought in one BE player so far. Dunn, Rutherford and Sears shouldn’t have been recruited to play at this level
Dave was right to be concerned with his recruiting. Let’s hope he’s more wrong than right this time. I’m sure he’d rather it turn out that way.
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Coach Anderson has brought in one BE player so far. Dunn, Rutherford and Sears shouldn’t have been recruited to play at this level
Dave was right to be concerned with his recruiting. Let’s hope he’s more wrong than right this time. I’m sure he’d rather it turn out that way.
Rah was heralded as undoubtedly the best most talented player on the practice floor last preseason. His elite athleticism, speed and ball handling can fit in any league in the country. If he had his waiver lifted earlier during the OOC he wouldn't of had that drastic of a learning curve. I expect him to have a huge year this season, especially with a year of comfort underneath his belt with his teammates against familiar competition. I wouldn't be surprised at 16-5-5 across the board for Rah.
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Rah was heralded as undoubtedly the best most talented player on the practice floor last preseason. His elite athleticism, speed and ball handling can fit in any league in the country. If he had his waiver lifted earlier during the OOC he wouldn't of had that drastic of a learning curve. I expect him to have a huge year this season, especially with a year of comfort underneath his belt with his teammates against familiar competition. I wouldn't be surprised at 16-5-5 across the board for Rah.
With that usage rate I'd expect 35% shooting and 4+ turnovers
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Does that mean he’s staying?
Just asking
Lol how would that mean he’s staying? There are two ways to interpret that: he wants to graduate and go pro or the far more likely scenario of graduating to transfer immediately.
St. John’s is a very hard school to graduate from in two years for a transfer because it requires a combined 18 credits of theology and philosophy on top of the major and more total credits than most schools. You also have to earn more than half of the credits needed to graduate at St. John’s. I would be surprised if he managed that.
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With all due respect I’m gonna continue to take mike Anderson’s track record over yours.
You're more than welcome to but everything I've stated since Mike Anderson has been hired has played out. I'm not here to say I told you so but my concerns have validity.
For all the people who complained about transfers we are taking average players off bad teams in MAAC, NEC, A-10, CAA, and D2 now. Please someone defend that as a winning recruiting plan.
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I think Salnave can play at this level. My only question is what he offers over Dunn and Williams. Almost any other year he would be a no-brainer.
If one of our PGs decides to break Marillac’s heart and transfer then be would be a terrific replacement.
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I think it's obvious this staff will disappoint out on the recruiting field. Two recruiting classes in and we've yet to land a certified top 100 guy and 21 doesn't look too promising either.
I have no problem with Ray. I like having upperclassmen already. The issue is relying on guys like this to be significant parts of the offense at the BE level.
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You're more than welcome to but everything I've stated since Mike Anderson has been hired has played out. I'm not here to say I told you so but my concerns have validity.
For all the people who complained about transfers we are taking average players off bad teams in MAAC, NEC, A-10, CAA, and D2 now. Please someone defend that as a winning recruiting plan.
Rutherford was a last minute add last year by necessity. Did you have an issue with taking Mouvika as a last minute add who was likewise not a BE player in any respect? At least Rutherford was an impact player on the defensive side at this level, for all his problems on offense. I would have liked to see what Anderson could have done with him in 4 years with an actual offseason program and coaching.
Who did we take from D-II? If your problem is with Dunn and Toro as depth guys, how is that different than Carraher or Dixon? And would you rather have a guy like Dunn on your roster or some transfer from a high level school that has all kinds of issues with a better chance of flaming out (Keita, Steere, El Wright etc).
I don’t know whether Cole, Moore, Posh or Wusu will be good players or not. On paper I don’t think a few JUCO AA’s and two 3 star kids from NY, one of whom in Posh may be underranked because of an ill-times injury, is a bad thing on paper. Just like I didn’t think Champaigne was a bad thing prior to last year - on paper - and he was one of the best freshman in the league.
Jury is still out on recruiting. If the choice is between a slightly lesser ranked kid who will stay here and develop versus swinging for the fenced with more risky but talented kids, I’m not sure the former is a worse strategy, especially if you can augment that with a higher ranked prospect or two in each class (and maybe Cole and Posh turn out to be that for 2020).
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You're more than welcome to but everything I've stated since Mike Anderson has been hired has played out. I'm not here to say I told you so but my concerns have validity.
For all the people who complained about transfers we are taking average players off bad teams in MAAC, NEC, A-10, CAA, and D2 now. Please someone defend that as a winning recruiting plan.
I don’t think anyone had a problem with transfers per se. Everyone loved Simon, Clark and Owens. People had an issue with being overly reliant on them and some of the risks that were taken. Talent is great, but when your talented PG gets suspended multiple times during the year and thrown off the team before the Big 10 tournament, such that you have to use walk on football players to field a lineup, a different strategy that is less risk averse might make some sense.
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You're more than welcome to but everything I've stated since Mike Anderson has been hired has played out. I'm not here to say I told you so but my concerns have validity.
For all the people who complained about transfers we are taking average players off bad teams in MAAC, NEC, A-10, CAA, and D2 now. Please someone defend that as a winning recruiting plan.
Not quite, you said this will be the first year he will finish below .500. :angel:
I disagree , Rah and Rutherford are Big East players. Rah gets to the hole almost at will. Rutherford is big time defensively ,both players rebound well and have good motors.
Neither are starters at this level I will admit that.
Spears on the other hand , had the best style on the team :crazy2:
If LJ :'( is out I would prefer we grab a kid that is trying to reclassify from 2021 to 2020.
I am hearing the NCAA will not be as strict on admission into colleges this school year, therefore some 2021 players are taking full advantage and are bolting early with the lack of AAU to show their stuff.
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Dave you also told us Ian Steere would be the best big we had in years ....you loved Mikey Dixon, Keita pick ups also. We wasted 2 years on each on these guys ....“don’t want to say I told you so” but hey bud guess what they all sucked and you liked them cause your boy recruited them ....LOL 🙄
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^ So much for being right all the time :2funny:
Some of you must think others don't read your posts. Consistency is key.
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With that usage rate I'd expect 35% shooting and 4+ turnovers
2019-20 In 29 MPG-
PTS
11.9
REB
3.8
AST
3.4
FG%
37.7
If he plays the same minutes this season those numbers are going up. With Salnave plus Cole and Wusu at the wing his minutes are getting cut down however.
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Dave you also told us Ian Steere would be the best big we had in years ....you loved Mikey Dixon, Keita pick ups also. We wasted 2 years on each on these guys ....“don’t want to say I told you so” but hey bud guess what they all sucked and you liked them c
ause your boy recruited them ....LOL 🙄
LMAO
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2019-20 In 29 MPG-
PTS
11.9
REB
3.8
AST
3.4
FG%
37.7
If he plays the same minutes this season those numbers are going up. With Salnave plus Cole and Wusu at the wing his minutes are getting cut down however.
Agreed. There's no doubt that Dunn should have a more prolific season this year playing his true off guard role with two true PG's on the roster.
We don't need anymore transfers. No thanks on Salnave. This team was already competitive last year in a complete transition season. I expect the wins and performance to both go up this year with the large majority returning and the added pieces.
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You're more than welcome to but everything I've stated since Mike Anderson has been hired has played out.
You actually believe this stuff?
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You actually believe this stuff?
The act is old it’s every player we recruit and we bring in he has a comment about.
Cole - “he would be an interesting role player surprised we took commitment this early”
Posh - “not bad but not great”
And we no how he feels about Rutherford / Sears (who btw was better then Lazy ass Steere) and now Salnave the list goes on and on ...I am sure I can find stuff he ripped on Penny about ....the difference is these guys Rutherford/ Sears / Toro and hopefully Salnave are 1 year rentals to actually DO the dirty work for the team.
But for guys the old staffs guys he has the below to stay
Keita - he will do the dirty work exactly what we need
Steere- kid is a beast great hustle will be huge for us ....Loved Dixon ...Loved Lovett all these kids had BAGGAGE BUT We still bought them on and you praised them
Every CMA recruit he throws shade there way ....it’s his way
Instead of being excited after a 17-15 season and some big wins in CMA first year and to close year strong to build on next year he wants to talk about every recruits baggage and why they are bad fit.....we could be 12 players deep next year and make some noise in Big East but he wants to play the told you so game
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The act is old it’s every player we recruit and we bring in he has a comment about.
Cole - “he would be an interesting role player surprised we took commitment this early”
Posh - “not bad but not great”
And we no how he feels about Rutherford / Sears (who btw was better then Lazy ass Steere) and now Salnave the list goes on and on ...I am sure I can find stuff he ripped on Penny about ....the difference is these guys Rutherford/ Sears / Toro and hopefully Salnave are 1 year rentals to actually DO the dirty work for the team.
But for guys the old staffs guys he has the below to stay
Keita - he will do the dirty work exactly what we need
Steere- kid is a beast great hustle will be huge for us ....Loved Dixon ...Loved Lovett all these kids had BAGGAGE BUT We still bought them on and you praised them
Every CMA recruit he throws shade there way ....it’s his way
Instead of being excited after a 17-15 season and some big wins in CMA first year and to close year strong to build on next year he wants to talk about every recruits baggage and why they are bad fit.....we could be 12 players deep next year and make some noise in Big East but he wants to play the told you so game
*Also admittedly didn't watch the last 5 games of the season, what 'fan' does that?*
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Lol how would that mean he’s staying? There are two ways to interpret that: he wants to graduate and go pro or the far more likely scenario of graduating to transfer immediately.
Was only asking because of you give him 18 a semester including Juco that’s only 108 credits...I had to do more then that 30 years ago...I was just asking....
St. John’s is a very hard school to graduate from in two years for a transfer because it requires a combined 18 credits of theology and philosophy on top of the major and more total credits than most schools. You also have to earn more than half of the credits needed to graduate at St. John’s. I would be surprised if he managed that.
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2019-20 In 29 MPG-
PTS
11.9
REB
3.8
AST
3.4
FG%
37.7
If he plays the same minutes this season those numbers are going up. With Salnave plus Cole and Wusu at the wing his minutes are getting cut down however.
When defenses started to give him room to shoot, his numbers went down. I don’t think this kind of player is the answer for us at any position. He’s just too out of control. But let’s see what kind of senior year he has.
He should be working on his handle and especially his three point shot, but that brings up a rather unfortunate challenge in that hoops have been taken down all over NY.
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I have not been a big fan of Mike Anderson. That being said majority of the transfers your boy got were head cases. Thus , the reason they were transfers. Mike Anderson most likely will recruit players similar to Norm but with better results on the court.
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Anderson just got here. He will get chances to reqruit over guys and he will. No more 6 player teams. We got a coach.
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Mike Anderson will not recruit well here. Even with full backing from the AD/administration, many more resources in place for the program, and more money, they will be digging for the "diamonds in the rough". Middle of the pack stuff. They haven't made inroads with the '21 class either. This is the unfortunate reality. I think Demeo and Macon are decent assistants but not dynamic recruiters for a program in need of some.
Our future depends on Posh Alexander... let's hope he excels quickly. Cole,Moore, Williams,Roberts,Earlington,Caraher, Dunn, Toro, Salnave (?) will all be gone in the next two years. Can we keep replacing guys with two year jucos and grad transfers? Then waiting for lower level HS recruits to develop as upperclassmen?
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Anderson has been at the job a shade over a year. The ‘20 class with two local three stars who seem to fit his style of play and two Juco AA seems solid for having not much time to recruit and build relationships. ‘21 is where I will be a harsher judge. The jury is still out, the mans first full class hasn’t hit campus yet. Anyone all in or all out in this staffs recruiting is not letting it play out. In a year when we have an idea of the talent level of this class and we know who we have for ‘21 I think we will start to get a clearer picture.
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Not quite, you said this will be the first year he will finish below .500. :angel:
I disagree , Rah and Rutherford are Big East players. Rah gets to the hole almost at will. Rutherford is big time defensively ,both players rebound well and have good motors.
Neither are starters at this level I will admit that.
Spears on the other hand , had the best style on the team :crazy2:
If LJ :'( is out I would prefer we grab a kid that is trying to reclassify from 2021 to 2020.
I am hearing the NCAA will not be as strict on admission into colleges this school year, therefore some 2021 players are taking full advantage and are bolting early with the lack of AAU to show their stuff.
Rutherford was not a Big East player by any means. Salnave is much better. Rutherford player behind him at Monmouth as a 4th year junior with experience at a higher level when Salnave was a soph.
Rutherford competed extremely hard but was not close to acceptable at this level.
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Mike Anderson will not recruit well here. Even with full backing from the AD/administration, many more resources in place for the program, and more money, they will be digging for the "diamonds in the rough". Middle of the pack stuff. They haven't made inroads with the '21 class either. This is the unfortunate reality. I think Demeo and Macon are decent assistants but not dynamic recruiters for a program in need of some.
Our future depends on Posh Alexander... let's hope he excels quickly. Cole,Moore, Williams,Roberts,Earlington,Caraher, Dunn, Toro, Salnave (?) will all be gone in the next two years. Can we keep replacing guys with two year jucos and grad transfers? Then waiting for lower level HS recruits to develop as upperclassmen?
I also think it’s clear Anderson won’t be competing for top recruits. I don’t think that is even debatable at this point.
My hope is that he can find enough talent in less competitive recruiting environments like JUCO and the transfer market to combine with athletic raw types like Wusu other teams don’t really want.
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Mike Anderson will not recruit well here. Even with full backing from the AD/administration, many more resources in place for the program, and more money, they will be digging for the "diamonds in the rough". Middle of the pack stuff. They haven't made inroads with the '21 class either. This is the unfortunate reality. I think Demeo and Macon are decent assistants but not dynamic recruiters for a program in need of some.
Our future depends on Posh Alexander... let's hope he excels quickly. Cole,Moore, Williams,Roberts,Earlington,Caraher, Dunn, Toro, Salnave (?) will all be gone in the next two years. Can we keep replacing guys with two year jucos and grad transfers? Then waiting for lower level HS recruits to develop as upperclassmen?
He sign two of best players , playing for the best High school in New York City OSL , Bronx last (would of love to see them play Archbishop Stepinac) . Sounds like he made connections within his first few months to pull that off.
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I also think it’s clear Anderson won’t be competing for top recruits. I don’t think that is even debatable at this point.
My hope is that he can find enough talent in less competitive recruiting environments like JUCO and the transfer market to combine with athletic raw types like Wusu other teams don’t really want.
The problem is they haven't been in the top of the transfer market either. They're getting lower level schools and not from the power conferences. That's fine to fill roles, but not to replace higher talent like Heron,LJ etc... Staff needs a few big time players in the next recruiting class... if not I would be worried.
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The problem is they haven't been in the top of the transfer market either. They're getting lower level schools and not from the power conferences. That's fine to fill roles, but not to replace higher talent like Heron,LJ etc... Staff needs a few big time players in the next recruiting class... if not I would be worried.
I think that’s a fair assessment. If they don’t land some impact hs players in ‘21 and again in ‘22 when our junior class of this upcoming season graduates with a lot of minutes and talent the staff will have some issues.
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The St Johns MO has been make the NCAAs every 4 years or so. 2011, under Dunlap and Lavin, we lost in the first round. 2015, Lavin lost in the first round and got clipped. 2019, Mullin lost in the play-in round, and got clipped.
Lavin, great recruiter, took the brand national...poor X and O/Poor Game Coach.
Mullin, great brand name, poor X and O, poor game coach, apathetic toward recruiting.
Anderson, best of the 3 X and O, best of the three in game coaching. Even though has top 20 recruiting class, some perceive a poor recruiter.
Personally, I'd rather see McGriff or Caraher stay here v pressuring anyone to leave. Especially for a one year two guard who will see limited minutes. McGriff is a Baltimore PG, he must have skills and must be tough. I hope we keep those guys on the roster.
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Mike Anderson will not recruit well here. Even with full backing from the AD/administration, many more resources in place for the program, and more money, they will be digging for the "diamonds in the rough". Middle of the pack stuff. They haven't made inroads with the '21 class either. This is the unfortunate reality. I think Demeo and Macon are decent assistants but not dynamic recruiters for a program in need of some.
Our future depends on Posh Alexander... let's hope he excels quickly. Cole,Moore, Williams,Roberts,Earlington,Caraher, Dunn, Toro, Salnave (?) will all be gone in the next two years. Can we keep replacing guys with two year jucos and grad transfers? Then waiting for lower level HS recruits to develop as upperclassmen?
I couldn't disagree more. Our future doesn't depend on one player on this current roster. Our future this coming season depends on the whole of the parts. That's the beauty of Anderson's system. He can take lesser parts and get them to exceed individual expectations. He already exceeded in Year 1 and this year he's primed to improve on Year 1's record.
You keep saying that Anderson won't recruit well here. Well he already got Champagnie who was a pleasant surprise by all accounts in Year 1. We also saw how much projects like Roberts and Earlington developed and improved in 1 year under his regime.
But yet you keep focusing on what will happen 2 years down the line. That is an invalid argument because no one knows what the hell the roster or program will look like in 2 years.
However what we do know is that this season coming up he's got an extremely deep roster with some good talent. If they win and make the dance this year or next that will most likely open the door to some better, higher ranked recruits.
And even if it doesn't he will have proven that he can build a solid program here with solid but not elite level talent. I think if he gets to the dance this year then he will start bringing in 2-3 Top 150 kids/year worst case, maybe higher rated. Again solid talent along with a proven system can yield good results.
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@NYPost_Brazille
1m
St Johns is out on Monmouth grad transfer Ray Salnave, I'm told. A scholarship it thought would open up may not after all. #sjubb
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Tweet from Zach saying St Johns out on Salnave with no scholarship becoming available does that mean LJ returning?
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It appears that we were all jumping the gun on McGriff, open ship was resting on LJF decision all along. Still has to play out but this is potentially very good news.
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@NYPost_Brazille
St Johns is out on Monmouth grad transfer Ray Salnave, I'm told. A scholarship it thought would open up may not after all. #sjubb
LJ🤯
Some of the best sports news during the Quarantine ,along with the Giant’s amazing draft.
Hope Ray goes to DePaul and lights up everyone but us!
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Adam Zagoria
@AdamZagoria
Can confirm this is true. The expectation is that LJ Figueroa will remain in school and
@StJohnsBBall
has no ships left.
WE ARE
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If Posh can play, (it appears he can) and Cole is more Bootsy than Ahmed, this team will be competitive.
Posh, Cole and LJ and then we can go Penny and Roberts or Toro.
What say you Jungle?
How good is that line up?
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Good riddance. I don't even know who stayed who didn't but it's addition by subtraction regardless. Trust the process.
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I’d rather keep McGriff than add Salnave, and I’d much rather keep LJ than add Salnave.
Cole and a senior LJ would make a potent offensive pairing with a real PG.
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Dave you also told us Ian Steere would be the best big we had in years ....you loved Mikey Dixon, Keita pick ups also. We wasted 2 years on each on these guys ....“don’t want to say I told you so” but hey bud guess what they all sucked and you liked them cause your boy recruited them ....LOL 🙄
Yes and still loved the Keita pick up assuming Owens would have stayed never as a replacement. Dixon was and would have been nice 3rd / 4th guard similar style to Dunn but not as relied on. Steere was unfortunate as we never truly saw what he was capable of.
I am really good friends with Matt and yes we went to school together. This really doesn't impact my basketball opinions as I work in the industry too and have professional knowledge of these kids from a young age. I don't agree with all his moves or evaluations but generally I respect his track record.
However that is really not here nor there anymore as we're past that. You should get over it too.
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2019-20 In 29 MPG-
PTS
11.9
REB
3.8
AST
3.4
FG%
37.7
If he plays the same minutes this season those numbers are going up. With Salnave plus Cole and Wusu at the wing his minutes are getting cut down however.
Minutes per game and usage rate are two very different things.
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*Also admittedly didn't watch the last 5 games of the season, what 'fan' does that?*
Sorry but there are things in life more important than St. John's basketball. I've stated some personal things in previous posts. Perhaps you should go and look back.
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I have not been a big fan of Mike Anderson. That being said majority of the transfers your boy got were head cases. Thus , the reason they were transfers. Mike Anderson most likely will recruit players similar to Norm but with better results on the court.
That's a fair criticism that I'd agree with. Rolled the dice too often. We needed more balance and became too heavy in transient culture.
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Mike Anderson will not recruit well here. Even with full backing from the AD/administration, many more resources in place for the program, and more money, they will be digging for the "diamonds in the rough". Middle of the pack stuff. They haven't made inroads with the '21 class either. This is the unfortunate reality. I think Demeo and Macon are decent assistants but not dynamic recruiters for a program in need of some.
Our future depends on Posh Alexander... let's hope he excels quickly. Cole,Moore, Williams,Roberts,Earlington,Caraher, Dunn, Toro, Salnave (?) will all be gone in the next two years. Can we keep replacing guys with two year jucos and grad transfers? Then waiting for lower level HS recruits to develop as upperclassmen?
This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
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Adam Zagoria
@AdamZagoria
Can confirm this is true. The expectation is that LJ Figueroa will remain in school and
@StJohnsBBall
has no ships left.
WE ARE
We'll see in July
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This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
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This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
Then why are you so quick to defend the last staff if you aren’t satisfied with that?
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Yes and still loved the Keita pick up assuming Owens would have stayed never as a replacement. Dixon was and would have been nice 3rd / 4th guard similar style to Dunn but not as relied on. Steere was unfortunate as we never truly saw what he was capable of.
I am really good friends with Matt and yes we went to school together. This really doesn't impact my basketball opinions as I work in the industry too and have professional knowledge of these kids from a young age. I don't agree with all his moves or evaluations but generally I respect his track record.
However that is really not here nor there anymore as we're past that. You should get over it too.
Ok and you points were wrong on all 3.....again you missed the whole point on you bashing every recruit Anderson has bought in. Just like you trust your boys Matt A track record I trust the track record of a head coach that has never had a losing season.
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Sorry but there are things in life more important than St. John's basketball. I've stated some personal things in previous posts. Perhaps you should go and look back.
Agree a lot of things in life are way more important then St Johns basketball and I and all the members on the board send you all the prayers. A lot of people on these boards need prayers during these tough times. This is one place we can go and talk about Sports.
The point I am sure Quan was making was You came on the board to bash the team after we ended the season so strongly and then admitted you did not watch the last 5 games? Why bash on the team then if you did not watch those games and how they played?
This will be the deepest team we had in years if LJ returns. We have every piece back (we played better without Heron) from a team that in Year 1 of a rebuild was probably heading to the NIT and had a very strong chance to make there first Big East Semis since 2000. As a fan we should be excited for the future. Would think and hope someone like yourself who is owner of message board/ alum and a fan would be more optimistic and support this team then rip on them every chance you get.
Stay safe during these times Dave Go St. John’s ...Be excited!
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This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
Then why are you so quick to defend the last staff if you aren’t satisfied with that?
If I'm defending last staff then I'm also defending Lavin. Never wanted him gone.
That's why I don't understand why everyone's so quick to jump on that. All of our staffs have had their missteps and shortcomings. I believe in both instances small changes and continuity would have been better path instead of starting anew. This all stems from poor administration though.
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Ok and you points were wrong on all 3.....again you missed the whole point on you bashing every recruit Anderson has bought in. Just like you trust your boys Matt A track record I trust the track record of a head coach that has never had a losing season.
Look I'm basing a lot of my opinions on first hand knowledge. A player's talents does not always equal production.
Coach may or may not use player in a role, not develop a strength, damage confidence. Life happens too. Don't forget these guys go through ups/downs of life too. Girl leaves 'em, family problems, etc.
- Owens stays, Keita doesn't injure his knee we might have another version of history.
- Dixon doesn't get in dog house and doesn't jump ship immediately he might have developed into nice 6th man role.
- Steere gets eligible immediately doesn't have to sit out, doesn't have another coaching change, etc.
I'm not out here bashing all of Anderson's recruiting but comparatively speaking to rest of conference we are inferior on paper every step of the way. Its hard to see improvement or vision of long term success when we're taking a step back. Do I think Anderson can coach guys up and squeeze more juice? Yea for sure but idk if that will be enough to climb out of cellar of the conference.
I think that's more than fair. I want to win, I root for us to win, but I'm dissatisfied with direction of the program and there is a lack of confidence from me.
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Agree a lot of things in life are way more important then St Johns basketball and I and all the members on the board send you all the prayers. A lot of people on these boards need prayers during these tough times. This is one place we can go and talk about Sports.
The point I am sure Quan was making was You came on the board to bash the team after we ended the season so strongly and then admitted you did not watch the last 5 games? Why bash on the team then if you did not watch those games and how they played?
This will be the deepest team we had in years if LJ returns. We have every piece back (we played better without Heron) from a team that in Year 1 of a rebuild was probably heading to the NIT and had a very strong chance to make there first Big East Semis since 2000. As a fan we should be excited for the future. Would think and hope someone like yourself who is owner of message board/ alum and a fan would be more optimistic and support this team then rip on them every chance you get.
Stay safe during these times Dave Go St. John’s ...Be excited!
Let me make something clear. I'm never bashing. I've always had praise and criticisms since the inception of this website. I'm never going to waive pom poms nor am I ever going to be malicious towards player or coach.
We'll have to hang out at a game next year, have a beer, and we can talk hoops. Sometimes this online stuff gets lost in translation.
End of college basketball season is my busiest time of year for work. I'm prepping for recruiting trail and the only thing I know is the day ends in Y. Add anything personal on top of that watching games is tough and watching on dvr is brutal experience (but I do it sometimes). Dealing with my mom having life threatening illness in hospital and getting the plug pulled on my job because of Corona, the Johnnies were a total afterthought. I was in survival mode. I was in the hospital half paying attention to the Creighton game on my phone with 1 earphone in.
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Dave - on a personal note, sorry for the family and job troubles. Be well.
I get all your points, and recruiting concern but still to me you are covering for things.
You really feel OK with Mullin continuing to never getting on the recruiting trail or at least being remotely engaged in it?
If Cam Mack got in car accident and fled from scene here in NY instead of Nebraska, would Matt's choice of recruiting been in question?
Only one AC change would have solved it?
Why couldn't coach talk Dixon out of doghouse?
If Steere was so sound, what the heck happened that he couldn't start off fresh with a new staff? All the other guys figured it out. Who is to blame here?
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Dave - on a personal note, sorry for the family and job troubles. Be well.
I get all your points, and recruiting concern but still to me you are covering for things.
You really feel OK with Mullin continuing to never getting on the recruiting trail or at least being remotely engaged in it?
If Cam Mack got in car accident and fled from scene here in NY instead of Nebraska, would Matt's choice of recruiting been in question?
Only one AC change would have solved it?
Why couldn't coach talk Dixon out of doghouse?
If Steere was so sound, what the heck happened that he couldn't start off fresh with a new staff? All the other guys figured it out. Who is to blame here?
tl;dr Karen has a lot of questions.
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Dave - on a personal note, sorry for the family and job troubles. Be well.
I get all your points, and recruiting concern but still to me you are covering for things.
You really feel OK with Mullin continuing to never getting on the recruiting trail or at least being remotely engaged in it?
If Cam Mack got in car accident and fled from scene here in NY instead of Nebraska, would Matt's choice of recruiting been in question?
Only one AC change would have solved it?
Why couldn't coach talk Dixon out of doghouse?
If Steere was so sound, what the heck happened that he couldn't start off fresh with a new staff? All the other guys figured it out. Who is to blame here?
Appreciate it and everything is on the bounce back.
So for one I personally sat with Mullin on the recruiting trail sometimes. His progression and understanding of the space got so much better each and every year. I think lack of Mitch Richmond on the road for me was more troubling.
I think good kids can make bad mistakes and bad kids can also not get caught. I'm not here to play judge and jury. It's difficult to weigh talent vs risk and every coach across America does it to some degree. The better ones swing and miss less.
I think one AC change and some admin level stuff could have solved a lot. Mullin should have brought in John Carroll to be special assistant and if not Mike Rice as AC someone like him.
I've said this plenty before a big criticism I had of former staff and in particular Matt was they were too quick to dismiss and say well we'll just get another guy off of transfers. We needed better continuity and team maturation.
I honestly don't know what was up with Steere. I was pretty far removed last season and I think some had to do with buy in and some with style. He was a force and I thought he was space eater we've been wanting.
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This is kind of it. I think the floor somewhat raises somewhat where we win 18-20 games a year but I think the ceiling also lowers.
Some people may be satisfied with that but personally I am not.
I do agree with your assessment that the floor is likely higher than the last staff -- I can't imagine this current staff having a season with only 1 win in conference or a worse conference record than norm roberts.
I doubt though that people will be satisfied if the ceiling is lower than the previous staff. The best season they put together was an 8-10 conference record and last team into the NCAA tournament. If mike anderson doesn't manage to make it into the NCAA tournament over the next 4 years, I imagine virtually everyone will be calling for him to be fired.
steve lavin got fired after 5 years, and he made the ncaa tournament 2x, the nit 2x, and had an overall winning record in conference. You may be over-estimating SJU's ability to accept mediocrity (even if they should).
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Let me make something clear. I'm never bashing. I've always had praise and criticisms since the inception of this website. I'm never going to waive pom poms nor am I ever going to be malicious towards player or coach.
We'll have to hang out at a game next year, have a beer, and we can talk hoops. Sometimes this online stuff gets lost in translation.
End of college basketball season is my busiest time of year for work. I'm prepping for recruiting trail and the only thing I know is the day ends in Y. Add anything personal on top of that watching games is tough and watching on dvr is brutal experience (but I do it sometimes). Dealing with my mom having life threatening illness in hospital and getting the plug pulled on my job because of Corona, the Johnnies were a total afterthought. I was in survival mode. I was in the hospital half paying attention to the Creighton game on my phone with 1 earphone in.
All the best to you and your family Dave.
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DePaul it is
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If mike anderson doesn't manage to make it into the NCAA tournament over the next 4 years, I imagine virtually everyone will be calling for him to be fired.
It would be a lot sooner than that.
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I do agree with your assessment that the floor is likely higher than the last staff -- I can't imagine this current staff having a season with only 1 win in conference or a worse conference record than norm roberts.
I doubt though that people will be satisfied if the ceiling is lower than the previous staff. The best season they put together was an 8-10 conference record and last team into the NCAA tournament. If mike anderson doesn't manage to make it into the NCAA tournament over the next 4 years, I imagine virtually everyone will be calling for him to be fired.
steve lavin got fired after 5 years, and he made the ncaa tournament 2x, the nit 2x, and had an overall winning record in conference. You may be over-estimating SJU's ability to accept mediocrity (even if they should).
This is kind of my point that we are in this perpetual state of we give a 1-2 season grace period then get unsatisfied with year 3-4 not meeting expectations and blow it up year 5.
- Lavin should have made adjustments to staff and administration should have bridged disconnect of Lavin on campus. Lavin had a lot of personal stuff going on that I think impacted his performance which is unfortunate but think he would have figured out a way to salvage it.
- Mullin should have made adjustments to staff as well and administration should have given him an extension instead of being lame duck. When you let Lavin go you knew Mullin would be an experiment and they should have doubled down and stayed committed to that.
- Anderson's best chance was to win last year and ride that momentum into this year. He didn't, the recruiting class is meh, but its not all bad but it's far from the level it needs to be to be contenders in the Big East. If this year is a sub-par then following year is likely going to be similar. If year 4 is better than year 3 but still not great then what?
These are my fears, concerns. If someone says we're going to be so much better this year and who knows we could...but I don't understand off what merit?
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DePaul it is
Thats kind of the path we're on. They've made strides as well but all those strides still hasn't gotten them out of the cellar.
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This is kind of my point that we are in this perpetual state of we give a 1-2 season grace period then get unsatisfied with year 3-4 not meeting expectations and blow it up year 5.
- Lavin should have made adjustments to staff and administration should have bridged disconnect of Lavin on campus. Lavin had a lot of personal stuff going on that I think impacted his performance which is unfortunate but think he would have figured out a way to salvage it.
- Mullin should have made adjustments to staff as well and administration should have given him an extension instead of being lame duck. When you let Lavin go you knew Mullin would be an experiment and they should have doubled down and stayed committed to that.
- Anderson's best chance was to win last year and ride that momentum into this year. He didn't, the recruiting class is meh, but its not all bad but it's far from the level it needs to be to be contenders in the Big East. If this year is a sub-par then following year is likely going to be similar. If year 4 is better than year 3 but still not great then what?
These are my fears, concerns. If someone says we're going to be so much better this year and who knows we could...but I don't understand off what merit?
So CMA should have won last year, with what? We were picked 9th and most didn't think he would finish with a winning record which he ended up doing.
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This is kind of my point that we are in this perpetual state of we give a 1-2 season grace period then get unsatisfied with year 3-4 not meeting expectations and blow it up year 5.
- Lavin should have made adjustments to staff and administration should have bridged disconnect of Lavin on campus. Lavin had a lot of personal stuff going on that I think impacted his performance which is unfortunate but think he would have figured out a way to salvage it.
- Mullin should have made adjustments to staff as well and administration should have given him an extension instead of being lame duck. When you let Lavin go you knew Mullin would be an experiment and they should have doubled down and stayed committed to that.
- Anderson's best chance was to win last year and ride that momentum into this year. He didn't, the recruiting class is meh, but its not all bad but it's far from the level it needs to be to be contenders in the Big East. If this year is a sub-par then following year is likely going to be similar. If year 4 is better than year 3 but still not great then what?
These are my fears, concerns. If someone says we're going to be so much better this year and who knows we could...but I don't understand off what merit?
I don’t see how this incoming recruiting class is any worse than what St.John’s has typically added.
Are you telling us that Posh Alexander is Geno Lawrence?
Is Vince Cole a bust?
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So CMA should have won last year, with what? We were picked 9th and most didn't think he would finish with a winning record which he ended up doing.
Please re-read what I wrote. I said he had his best chance of winning. We were poised to be NCAA tournament team heading into conference play and even midway through. The opportunity was there.
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I don’t see how this incoming recruiting class is any worse than what St.John’s has typically added.
Are you telling us that Posh Alexander is Geno Lawrence?
Is Vince Cole a bust?
Posh is a good get for many reasons and if he was a piece and not the prize of the recruiting class we'd be heading in the direction of where we should be.
I can't tell you a thing about Vince Cole. My guess is he's somewhere around Bashir Ahmed level.
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Please re-read what I wrote. I said he had his best chance of winning. We were poised to be NCAA tournament team heading into conference play and even midway through. The opportunity was there.
and my point was that was an unreasonable expectation. His best chance would have been to go 40-0 and win the National Championship I suppose.
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and my point was that was an unreasonable expectation. His best chance would have been to go 40-0 and win the National Championship I suppose.
I'm really not sure how unreasonable it was. I don't want to say those expectations were likely, they were definitely possible.
Is the expectation that 2021 is more likely to be successful than 2020?
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I'm really not sure how unreasonable it was. I don't want to say those expectations were likely, they were definitely possible.
Is the expectation that 2021 is more likely to be successful than 2020?
Retorical question Dave.
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Posh is a good get for many reasons and if he was a piece and not the prize of the recruiting class we'd be heading in the direction of where we should be.
I can't tell you a thing about Vince Cole. My guess is he's somewhere around Bashir Ahmed level.
So what do you think is stopping Coach Anderson from landing the recruits we should be getting?
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Retorical question Dave.
No you can answer that please.
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I'm really not sure how unreasonable it was. I don't want to say those expectations were likely, they were definitely possible.
Is the expectation that 2021 is more likely to be successful than 2020?
This is a serious question? What's the agenda bro? My God.
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This is a serious question? What's the agenda bro? My God.
I don't understand everyone trying to dodge answering it. What is the issue?
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Please re-read what I wrote. I said he had his best chance of winning. We were poised to be NCAA tournament team heading into conference play and even midway through. The opportunity was there.
I don't get this view. We were picked 9th for a reason. New coach, a number of new players or guys who did not contribute at all the prior season. And the conference being as strong last year as it ever has since it was reconfigured. Heron got hurt early, after getting injured in the summer, and I think his up-and-down and overall subpar play was attributable to that until he finally shut it down for surgery (I don't think he ever "checked out" based on his demeanor the rest of the season).
If LJ returns, and with the BE likely worse than last season, I think we have a better chance to succeed with this roster compared to last year.
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I don't understand everyone trying to dodge answering it. What is the issue?
You can be the most ridiculous poster on this board and that's saying something but ok I'll play your little game-of course expectations for this coming season exceed those for last season. Just look at the early prognostications from those in the business of making predictions-as opposed to ninth most have us at least 5th or 6th and that is with adding Uconn who is picked ahead of us so with last years field that would translate to 4th or 5th.
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Please re-read what I wrote. I said he had his best chance of winning. We were poised to be NCAA tournament team heading into conference play and even midway through. The opportunity was there.
After we beat West Virginia and Arizona, opposing teams quickly recognized that Rutherford and Dunn couldn’t shoot. Having no choice but the have them out there cost us a lot of close games.
It’s a fair point that guys like Sears, Rutherford and Dunn were not at the level that we needed. However, guys like Keita spent two years here, and injury or not, we didn’t see a top 100 player. We saw a guy who didn’t even resemble a top 300 recruit. Same for Ian Steere, who in his sophomore year was so out of shape that was the only thing his coach think of to say about him right before he became eligible.
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Please re-read what I wrote. I said he had his best chance of winning. We were poised to be NCAA tournament team heading into conference play and even midway through. The opportunity was there.
He coached guys up that Mullin didn't play. That was not a tourny team.
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He coached guys up that Mullin didn't play. That was not a tourny team.
He didn't play them because he had upperclassmen leading the way. How many minutes would they have played under Anderson if Shamorie, Simon,Clark,Lj,Heron were together? There minutes would've been cut significantly. Most freshman that aren't top recruits struggle in college hoops for minutes. You develop them in practice and let them watch at first. Could Mullin have used them a bit more in retrospect? No doubt. There is also a reason they were signed. They saw the talent in them.
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The point I think Dave is making is without Mustapha Heron and not knowing if LJ comes back how is this team that much better?
Cole and Posh have to be significant upgrades and the sophomores plus Julian have to take major leaps... it could happen.
I still think they're a year away from competing for a tourney birth.
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Heron did nothing last year for us ...we were better without him
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Agenda Dave back at it again!!! It really is comical at this point! Just to keep the comedy going I have some more examples of the Basketball gurus insider info on more Anderson Recruits!
Penny thread - quick recap ....highest level was a Fordham at A10 should have went conference lower.....never could be factor .....no where near his brother.....wouldn’t sniff Battle from Butler or Ganett from Providence and is more on level from Oscar Lopez at DePaul the guy who averaged 0.9 point his freshman year on the worst team in the Big East!
Let’s keep the Merry Go Round going I love to play this game!!
Such a Tool ....your the worst St. John’s fan on here....at least other posters who go at it with each other reason and have hope...your so blinded and upset you bestie gets bashed and u haven’t given Anderson a fair shot at all here it’s just degrade degrade degrade don’t worry Dave we all see the Agenda!
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You can be the most ridiculous poster on this board and that's saying something but ok I'll play your little game-of course expectations for this coming season exceed those for last season. Just look at the early prognostications from those in the business of making predictions-as opposed to ninth most have us at least 5th or 6th and that is with adding Uconn who is picked ahead of us so with last years field that would translate to 4th or 5th.
Sorry I wasn't looking for what magazines will or won't say. I was looking for your opinion on the situation. Do you just accept what magazines tell you?
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The point I think Dave is making is without Mustapha Heron and not knowing if LJ comes back how is this team that much better?
Cole and Posh have to be significant upgrades and the sophomores plus Julian have to take major leaps... it could happen.
I still think they're a year away from competing for a tourney birth.
This is where my head is at. I'm not handcuffing possibilities but how much are we expected to surmount expectations from last season? I'm willing to listen and yes I understand conference has taken some legitimate set backs from graduating primary players.
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Agenda Dave back at it again!!! It really is comical at this point! Just to keep the comedy going I have some more examples of the Basketball gurus insider info on more Anderson Recruits!
Penny thread - quick recap ....highest level was a Fordham at A10 should have went conference lower.....never could be factor .....no where near his brother.....wouldn’t sniff Battle from Butler or Ganett from Providence and is more on level from Oscar Lopez at DePaul the guy who averaged 0.9 point his freshman year on the worst team in the Big East!
Let’s keep the Merry Go Round going I love to play this game!!
Such a Tool ....your the worst St. John’s fan on here....at least other posters who go at it with each other reason and have hope...your so blinded and upset you bestie gets bashed and u haven’t given Anderson a fair shot at all here it’s just degrade degrade degrade don’t worry Dave we all see the Agenda!
My man if you're looking for an agenda you're in the wrong place. 10+ years Johnny Jungle has been a destination for fans to talk openly. You won't see bias here from positive to negative.
Certainly respect your opinion as do I respect others as well as my own.
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Sorry I wasn't looking for what magazines will or won't say. I was looking for your opinion on the situation. Do you just accept what magazines tell you?
OMG you are truly exasperating. No it isn't just the talking heads it is my opinion too I was just citing them to show it is a universal opinion. I did give you my opinion when I said your question was rhetorical but apparently you didn't know what that meant. No matter how much you protest I as many other posters on this board see through your denials and are convinced your opinions are agenda driven.
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OMG you are truly exasperating. No it isn't just the talking heads it is my opinion too I was just citing them to show it is a universal opinion. I did give you my opinion when I said your question was rhetorical but apparently you didn't know what that meant. No matter how much you protest I as many other posters on this board see through your denials and are convinced your opinions are agenda driven.
He’s been right about everything since Anderson was hired. He already told us that celtics.
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The point I think Dave is making is without Mustapha Heron and not knowing if LJ comes back how is this team that much better?
Cole and Posh have to be significant upgrades and the sophomores plus Julian have to take major leaps... it could happen.
I still think they're a year away from competing for a tourney birth.
I think this is fair, particularly if LJ doesn’t come back it is hard to argue that next year’s roster will be better. Next year will really be a test of Anderson’s system and his ability to coach guys up. We’ll see what he can do, but I also agree that we should wait until year 3/4 before we expect them to be in tourney contention.
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He’s been right about everything since Anderson was hired. He already told us that celtics.
He wrong about Penny. He was right about Rutherford, Dunn and Sears.
Curbelo picked Illinois. The Stepinac backcourt went ACC. Posh is a solid recruit, but if he’s not ready from day 1, we’re f’d.
With this incoming class, we’ll get to see how much smarter we really are.
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How replaceable are Heron and LJ?
We proved last year we didn't miss Heron much after he was shut down. Guys were given opportunities; Williams, Earlington, Penny, and showed they earned the opportunities.
LJ. LJ last season reminded me of Ponds the season before. You can say he is the best outside shooter on the team, but too many games, he would shoot us out of games. Too many chucks, too many running one handers...leads to fast break points for the other team. His chucks were like uncounted turnovers. So, if he decides to go International between now and August, it would be tough but not irreplaceable.
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How replaceable are Heron and LJ?
We proved last year we didn't miss Heron much after he was shut down. Guys were given opportunities; Williams, Earlington, Penny, and showed they earned the opportunities.
LJ. LJ last season reminded me of Ponds the season before. You can say he is the best outside shooter on the team, but too many games, he would shoot us out of games. Too many chucks, too many running one handers...leads to fast break points for the other team. His chucks were like uncounted turnovers. So, if he decides to go International between now and August, it would be tough but not irreplaceable.
Heron had one of the all time worst seasons any St.John’s starter ever had.
I don’t even believe he was anywhere near as bad as he played, but that’s what happened. He’s not a man to man defender. His basketball instincts weren’t his strength. He was an excellent spot up shooter, and strong on finishing plays others worked to run for him.
LJ tried to do too much. Ideally, we need another scorer to step up and be the alpha. LJ would be better as a second or third option on offense like he was in 2018-2019. His shooting percentages back that up nicely.
For us to dance, best case scenario is that alpha is Posh Alexander.
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Heron had one of the all time worst seasons any St.John’s starter ever had.
I don’t even believe he was anywhere near as bad as he played, but that’s what happened. He’s not a man to man defender. His basketball instincts weren’t his strength. He was an excellent spot up shooter, and strong on finishing plays others worked to run for him.
LJ tried to do too much. Ideally, we need another scorer to step up and be the alpha. LJ would be better as a second or third option on offense like he was in 2018-2019. His shooting percentages back that up nicely.
For us to dance, best case scenario is that alpha is Posh Alexander.
I don’t know if posh has to be the alpha, but would agree that he will be a definite upgrade from what we had last year...and truth be told, any honest objective fan who can’t see that on paper at least this team should be easily 3/4 wins better have blinders on....
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I don’t know if posh has to be the alpha, but would agree that he will be a definite upgrade from what we had last year...and truth be told, any honest objective fan who can’t see that on paper at least this team should be easily 3/4 wins better have blinders on....
I hope Posh is the goods, but I don’t know what to expect from him. If he’s a point guard, and he’s ready, then we’re in business.
Vince Cole may be as good as advertised, but anyone here saying they know for sure, is only blowing smoke. If it takes him some time, which is likely, he may not start at the two because Coach may want an experienced player there. Looks like there is finally some depth. It’s an unusual feeling.
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Heron did nothing last year for us ...we were better without him
When Heron stinks it's his fault. When the players "develop" it's because of Anderson. Got ya.
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When Heron stinks it's his fault. When the players "develop" it's because of Anderson. Got ya.
Heron stunk because Heron stunk.
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Is that comment I said about him wrong? We played better when we was not in the lineup and he did not fit Anderson’s system at all. The Injuries had an effect on him both of his seasons. But the player we projected him to be he did not live up to the hype
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Is that comment I said about him wrong? We played better when we was not in the lineup and he did not fit Anderson’s system at all. The Injuries had an effect on him both of his seasons. But the player we projected him to be he did not live up to the hype
He didn’t fit into either system. Where was Heron when he needed most both this season and last? I’m not blaming him for being injured, but he played well in maybe 10 real games in two tears.
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I think there will be more buy in to Anderson's style of play from both Posh and Wasu which is step in right direction. They both need to be junk yard dogs all the time.
I think what we need to hope is that Posh can be a more offensively skilled version of Rutherford. I think we all respected Rutherford's effort but simply he was limited. I think Posh expands on that but we'll live with some freshman growing pains.
We need to be that chip on shoulder team who doesn't know they aren't that good. The skill will need to elevate for this style and culture to win in Big East. It's possible but if we see bad results it's hard to get that buy in which is why I believe Heron and LJ were basically F this.
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See this is where we disagree. I didn’t see that or get that vibe from either player. Heron got hurt. He was hurt all year and then had to shut it down. He was into the games post-injury and was on Twitter lobbying for an extra year of eligibility once the pandemic hit.
Watch LJ the last 5 games. He didn’t play or look like anyone who checked out. I sat a few rows back for the Gtown BE game and LJ played his tail off and cared as if was a final 4 game. You don’t do that if you say “F it”. He led the BE in steals - you don’t do that if you are checked out. He was into the Creighton game despite there being no fans. And when we won that game - which we would have - he would have played his a$$ off on Friday night against Prov.
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See this is where we disagree. I didn’t see that or get that vibe from either player. Heron got hurt. He was hurt all year and then had to shut it down. He was into the games post-injury and was on Twitter lobbying for an extra year of eligibility once the pandemic hit.
Watch LJ the last 5 games. He didn’t play or look like anyone who checked out. I sat a few rows back for the Gtown BE game and LJ played his tail off and cared as if was a final 4 game. You don’t do that if you say “F it”. He led the BE in steals - you don’t do that if you are checked out. He was into the Creighton game despite there being no fans. And when we won that game - which we would have - he would have played his a$$ off on Friday night against Prov.
I thought at the beginning of the year that LJF was going to play himself into th late first round. That said, I thought he checked out in January and I don't understand how anyone could have watched him chucking up 40 foot threes and one hand floaters in the lane and think otherwise. His last spate of games included Two for 17 from the floor versus Xavier. Four points versus Villanova, nine versus Butler. 11 for 17 from the FT line. 11 for 29 from three. Five steals in his last six games. One block in his last 10. Other than a stellar game against Creighton (16 pts, 5 assists, 12 rebounds) he had four rebounds or fewer than eight times in his last nine games; over those nine (again leaving out Creighton) 19 rebounds versus 18 fouls. He not looked at all engaged to me and I was a fan.
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See this is where we disagree. I didn’t see that or get that vibe from either player. Heron got hurt. He was hurt all year and then had to shut it down. He was into the games post-injury and was on Twitter lobbying for an extra year of eligibility once the pandemic hit.
Watch LJ the last 5 games. He didn’t play or look like anyone who checked out. I sat a few rows back for the Gtown BE game and LJ played his tail off and cared as if was a final 4 game. You don’t do that if you say “F it”. He led the BE in steals - you don’t do that if you are checked out. He was into the Creighton game despite there being no fans. And when we won that game - which we would have - he would have played his a$$ off on Friday night against Prov.
Agree 100%
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I thought at the beginning of the year that LJF was going to play himself into th late first round. That said, I thought he checked out in January and I don't understand how anyone could have watched him chucking up 40 foot threes and one hand floaters in the lane and think otherwise. His last spate of games included Two for 17 from the floor versus Xavier. Four points versus Villanova, nine versus Butler. 11 for 17 from the FT line. 11 for 29 from three. Five steals in his last six games. One block in his last 10. Other than a stellar game against Creighton (16 pts, 5 assists, 12 rebounds) he had four rebounds or fewer than eight times in his last nine games; over those nine (again leaving out Creighton) 19 rebounds versus 18 fouls. He not looked at all engaged to me and I was a fan.
The biggest difference in LJ between this past year and the prior one is FG%. To me that drop is attributable to him being the primary option instead of the 3rd or 4th, and from playing with a great guard who everyone focused on to playing without a true offensive PG. Beyond the significant dip in FG%, his numbers were pretty similar.
You're right of course that from late January on he had a number of games where he really struggled, mix in with some games where his play ranged from OK to very good. In addition to the Creighton game you point to, he was fantastic in the Georgetown BE tourney game, good in the Marquette W just before that, and fine in the Prov/Hall losses.
I don't necessarily think the dip in play is to him being "checked out". We've seen what checked out looks like. I think it is more because he was the primary offensive option everyone focused on, without a true PG or consistent scoring options around him, and resorted to some hideous shot selection because it was difficult for us to score points at times in the half court. I don't think a kid who is completely checked out plays like he did against Marquette, Georgetown and then for a half versus Creighton (he was at 9 points, 5 boards on 3-6 from 3 when that game was cancelled).
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just watched some video of McGriff. Great handle, penetrates with great quickness. Everyone is ignoring him but he could be a major factor. Shot is questionable, not enough to go on, awkward looking but a lot of good shooters are not classic. A lefty which is always a positive. Thinking he plays at least 15 to start and may play his way into more minutes. Potential to be an assist machine
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See this is where we disagree. I didn’t see that or get that vibe from either player. Heron got hurt. He was hurt all year and then had to shut it down. He was into the games post-injury and was on Twitter lobbying for an extra year of eligibility once the pandemic hit.
Watch LJ the last 5 games. He didn’t play or look like anyone who checked out. I sat a few rows back for the Gtown BE game and LJ played his tail off and cared as if was a final 4 game. You don’t do that if you say “F it”. He led the BE in steals - you don’t do that if you are checked out. He was into the Creighton game despite there being no fans. And when we won that game - which we would have - he would have played his a$$ off on Friday night against Prov.
Don't get it twisted that frustration or unhappiness means lack of effort or love for the game. Both players want to play and win but that doesn't mean they want to stay at St. John's.
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just watched some video of McGriff. Great handle, penetrates with great quickness. Everyone is ignoring him but he could be a major factor. Shot is questionable, not enough to go on, awkward looking but a lot of good shooters are not classic. A lefty which is always a positive. Thinking he plays at least 15 to start and may play his way into more minutes. Potential to be an assist machine
Everyone looks great in highlights. Need to see the lowlights too.
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Don't get it twisted that frustration or unhappiness means lack of effort or love for the game. Both players want to play and win but that doesn't mean they want to stay at St. John's.
We'll find out soon enough with LJ. If it was the prior staff I'd assume he's gone but we shall see.
Saw no evidence whatsoever that Heron didn't want to be here. If anything I saw that opposite post-injury.
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yeah but you can tell what strengths are evident, like his handle and court vision. As I said the outside shot looked questionable but his quickness is outstanding
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We'll find out soon enough with LJ. If it was the prior staff I'd assume he's gone but we shall see.
Saw no evidence whatsoever that Heron didn't want to be here. If anything I saw that opposite post-injury.
Yeah the prior squad that recruited him. If LJ had the option of not sitting out he would transfer. That I can tell you with certainty.
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The biggest difference in LJ between this past year and the prior one is FG%. To me that drop is attributable to him being the primary option instead of the 3rd or 4th, and from playing with a great guard who everyone focused on to playing without a true offensive PG. Beyond the significant dip in FG%, his numbers were pretty similar.
You're right of course that from late January on he had a number of games where he really struggled, mix in with some games where his play ranged from OK to very good. In addition to the Creighton game you point to, he was fantastic in the Georgetown BE tourney game, good in the Marquette W just before that, and fine in the Prov/Hall losses.
I don't necessarily think the dip in play is to him being "checked out". We've seen what checked out looks like. I think it is more because he was the primary offensive option everyone focused on, without a true PG or consistent scoring options around him, and resorted to some hideous shot selection because it was difficult for us to score points at times in the half court. I don't think a kid who is completely checked out plays like he did against Marquette, Georgetown and then for a half versus Creighton (he was at 9 points, 5 boards on 3-6 from 3 when that game was cancelled).
Obviously it's difficult to interpret players psychological states and emotional health. I routinely scoff at people who talk about body language and such. Still, to me he looked disinterested and dispirited a lot of the time.
Agree that he wasn't prepared - or maybe suited - to being the man. Not everyone is. The other thing that occurs to me is that maybe Ponds was even better than he appeared to be. I mean, I thought he was supernaturally talented but maybe he was even better than that. Maybe LJF and Heron had the years they had two years ago because of Ponds, not just his presence, but his talent. He got shit on a bit for playing for himself and being lazy and so on. Maybe he was a lot better than he was credited for being and what followed was sour grapes.
For the record I don't believe the Anderson narrative that says (as an earlier poster noted) that he gets credit Earlington and Roberts improving and gets absolved for Heron and LJF regressing. I think that's bullshit fanboi-ism. There's one truth but a lot of variables.
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I hope McGriff can be effective. I am concerned that even in some of his hype video clips from last year (before he sat out for the injury) he had some flashes of ball handling brilliance and then lost the ball in the end. (There is one with JayZ frowning that always made me chuckle).
I hope Posh proves he can be the starter from day 1, and I hope McGriff can pick up the back up minutes completely. Post + McGriff would equal be point guards, play makers, and some court vision we just haven't had in years.
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Yeah the prior squad that recruited him. If LJ had the option of not sitting out he would transfer. That I can tell you with certainty.
If LJ has reasons about his game that would wanna make him leave might be the same reasons that he should wanna stay. This staff can coach.
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This staff can coach.
We'll see.
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If LJ has reasons about his game that would wanna make him leave might be the same reasons that he should wanna stay. This staff can coach.
Did you see any improvement from him this past season?
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Yeah the prior squad that recruited him. If LJ had the option of not sitting out he would transfer. That I can tell you with certainty.
There’s something to be said for manning up and dealing with life as it comes. To transfer in this situation would make LJ seam weak.
Stick it out. Show you can lead, and that you can handle big spots. It’s something he hasn’t been able to do, yet.
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There’s something to be said for manning up and dealing with life it comes. To transfer in this situation would make LJ seam weak.
Stick it out. Show you can lead, and that you can handle big spots. It’s something he hasn’t been able to do, yet.
I don't know if there is anything manly about staying in a situation you didn't sign up for or feel unhappy about. Nothing weak about seeking better situation.
LJ is a great kid and great competitor. If he can go to better situation and play deep into NCAA Tournament or go pro then he should.
If I was the coaching staff I'd recognize this situation already and push for a decision one way or another. Can't have your best player being unhappy heading into the season which can disrupt culture you desperately need to establish.
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I don't know if there is anything manly about staying in a situation you didn't sign up for or feel unhappy about. Nothing weak about seeking better situation.
LJ is a great kid and great competitor. If he can go to better situation and play deep into NCAA Tournament or go pro then he should.
If I was the coaching staff I'd recognize this situation already and push for a decision one way or another. Can't have your best player being unhappy heading into the season which can disrupt culture you desperately need to establish.
You think pushing him into a decision will make him happier?
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I don't know if there is anything manly about staying in a situation you didn't sign up for or feel unhappy about. Nothing weak about seeking better situation.
LJ is a great kid and great competitor. If he can go to better situation and play deep into NCAA Tournament or go pro then he should.
If I was the coaching staff I'd recognize this situation already and push for a decision one way or another. Can't have your best player being unhappy heading into the season which can disrupt culture you desperately need to establish.
If St.John's screwed him and hired someone like Mullin or Roberts, I'd understand him leaving.
But that's not what happened here. The University did right by the players, so every one of them should have stayed put.
There should be some feeling for the program from LJ. How have they wronged him? Why is he looking to leave? Maybe, IDK, it's him, and not Coach Anderson that is the problem?
Of course, kids should be allowed to go to a better situation, but not for any reason. It's made a joke of the transfer rule. Deal with some adversity and work through it. LJ should take some ownership of the season he had. If he wants to be a leader, ok. We all want that, too. Stop shaking your head and throwing your arms up in protest on every play.
This, childish behavior, btw, is something I've noticed our guys are doing a LOT less since Coach Anderson took over. Don't you agree?
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Did you see any improvement from him this past season?
No, his luck he gets another chance to show he can play correct and hard in any style.It is also coachs job to do everything he can to help LJ get it done. Thats how you
get young men to wanna play for you.
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You think pushing him into a decision will make him happier?
No it's not but these are things you have to do as a staff. Can't be July when you figure it out.
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If St.John's screwed him and hired someone like Mullin or Roberts, I'd understand him leaving.
But that's not what happened here. The Univ ersatz did right by the players, so every one of them should have stayed put.
There should be some feeling for the program from LJ. How have they wronged him? Why is he looking to leave? Maybe, IDK, it's him, and not Coach Anderson that is the problem?
Of course, kids should be allowed to go to a better situation, but not for any reason. It's made a joke of the transfer rule. Deal with some adversity and work through it. LJ should take some ownership of the season he had. If he wants to be a leader, ok. We all want that, too. Stop shaking your head and throwing your arms up in protest on every play.
This, childish behavior, btw, is something I've noticed our guys are doing a LOT less since Coach Anderson took over. Don't you agree?
This makes no sense. He committed to play for Mullin and his system. Did LJ not look like a great addition his first yr? He did not commit to this staff. It's that simple. I do not understand why this is even a debate.
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I don't know if there is anything manly about staying in a situation you didn't sign up for or feel unhappy about. Nothing weak about seeking better situation.
LJ is a great kid and great competitor. If he can go to better situation and play deep into NCAA Tournament or go pro then he should.
If I was the coaching staff I'd recognize this situation already and push for a decision one way or another. Can't have your best player being unhappy heading into the season which can disrupt culture you desperately need to establish.
All due respect, but someone with Anderson's experience has a read on this for sure and knows the best approach to handle. He is very connected to the day-in-day out, unlike the past. I thought the culture last year was very good. Even with the Steere stuff, the level of "drama" did not seem to proliferate the same way it did in prior regimes. And the kids, including LJ, competing their a** off. I thought the culture/day-to-day was good compared to the past.
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This makes no sense. He committed to play for Mullin and his system. Did LJ not look like a great addition his first yr? He did not commit to this staff. It's that simple. I do not understand why this is even a debate.
L.J. statistics over the last two years are virtually identical, with the primary difference being a lower overall FG% (down to 38% from 51%). I chalk that up to two things. One, going from being one of several secondary options to the primary option team could focus on. Two, going from playing with one of the best playmaking guards in the country (Ponds) -- that everyone focused on -- to playing with inferior offensive PGs and less outside scoring options around him. Myles Powell was as good a shooter as there was in college basketball last season, and saw a 5% drop across-the-board in FG%, FT%, and 3-point percentage, despite playing with a much better supporting cast than the prior year. So I don't buy this "blaming Anderson" stuff, particularly when he showed the ability to squeeze much more out of some kids than others could. Sometimes guys have a worse year (like Powell did), even with the same staff and a better surrounding team. Sometimes a significant change in a kid's role -- like LJ experienced this year -- results in growing pains. With our squad next year, I think LJ is primed to have a better season.
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No it's not but these are things you have to do as a staff. Can't be July when you figure it out.
Shouldn't Seton Hall do the same with Mamu? Who is in the exact same position as LJ. What about the countless other teams that have similar predicaments under the circumstances with the date of the draft and decision deadline pushed back. I trust any coach connected to this program to have a good read on this stuff -- at some of which won't be and will never be made public unless a certain assistant on the staff is trading information to get positive coverage by a local beat writer.
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No it's not but these are things you have to do as a staff. Can't be July when you figure it out.
Kids enter the transfer portal 365 days a year nowadays so who is to say if LJ doesn't come back having an open schollie may not turn out to be fortuitous even as it relates to the upcoming season.
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Happy Sunday morning all - just a heads up I had a weird dream last night that we gave our open scholarship to a guard from a program like "George Mason", without hearing from LJ, and in the dream I read that "it pretty much closed the LJ chapter unless more roster shakeup".
Just wanted to document it. Happy Memorial Day Weekend! Enjoy the news about the NBA and the SEC (and others) opening up facilities - the first step to getting us college basketball next year!
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PRjohnnies doing his best to save this board.
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This makes no sense. He committed to play for Mullin and his system. Did LJ not look like a great addition his first yr? He did not commit to this staff. It's that simple. I do not understand why this is even a debate.
If LJ liked Having Ponds run down the clock and then looking to get to the line i be surprised. Anderson gives players a chance to use and sharpen their skills. If you want to stand around thinking about what your moves should be, System might not be for you. Do what you do, but do it fast.
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All due respect, but someone with Anderson's experience has a read on this for sure and knows the best approach to handle. He is very connected to the day-in-day out, unlike the past. I thought the culture last year was very good. Even with the Steere stuff, the level of "drama" did not seem to proliferate the same way it did in prior regimes. And the kids, including LJ, competing their a** off. I thought the culture/day-to-day was good compared to the past.
I agree I think Anderson did a better job keeping the house organized but I also think to a degree the spotlight really wasn't too bright either.
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Interesting thread to re-read for upcoming game against DePaul.
DePaul only has 3 games under their belt this season and Salnave hasn't looked stellar. We have a good sample size on our guys.
Will be interesting to see outcome
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Interesting thread to re-read for upcoming game against DePaul.
DePaul only has 3 games under their belt this season and Salnave hasn't looked stellar. We have a good sample size on our guys.
Will be interesting to see outcome
We are usually pretty evenly matched with DePaul, but Salnave probably won’t be a determining factor.
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We are usually pretty evenly matched with DePaul
Yes, because we are the worst two programs in the conference. Funny how that works, right?
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Yes, because we are the worst two programs in the conference. Funny how that works, right?
Georgetown is worse right now.