Amar Returns

Worse case scenario we are speaking about an end of the bench player, with size, potential and a good teammate who loves SJU. We are not winning or losing because the 13th man on the roster isn't a Big East player (says you). I think he has the potential to turn into a very serviceable player for us. If he doesn't, he will not be in the rotation and on the end of the bench. Has that hurt Villanova? Look at some of the talent that is on the end of the benches on many of the top programs and I will take Amar over most of them. There is room for Amar, Welcome back.

Quote from: we are sju on May 13, 2016, 09:36:41 AM

Quote from: Foad on May 13, 2016, 07:40:06 AM

Quote from: boo3 on May 13, 2016, 12:00:35 AM

Mussini would be lost without Amar

He was lost with him.

This Amar vs Jones argument is basically the Mussini is good vs Mussini stinks argument.
There is really no way to justify Amar being better than Jones other than Amar is white.

This doesn't set my spidey sense tingling the way the other discussion does, because there's rational arguments on both sides. There's no rational argument in Mussini's favor except that he's young and a foreigner, because on the court he stunk on both ends of the floor. Both AA and CJ showed flashes of talent last year. AA is younger, but his skill set doesn't fit because he's the German redux. Jones skills are a better fit but his minutes eat into the minutes of Sima and Yawke, who are the future. On the other hand both Sima and Yawke are foul prone and Sima was a shell of himself after his injury. Certainly there's no harm in having a PF in the Ron Stewart mold around for insurance. What I don't get is the idea that we don't need either of them, or anyone. I don't expect anything from the freshmen, JUCOs are always a question mark and the returnees weren't world beaters. We need all the help we can get.

I think Jones would be more in Stewart mold than the highly erratic or mostly just bad outside of Cuse game Amar. To your point Jones would have helped more next year.

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Neither one should be in line to get any significant minutes on next year's team

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Neither one should be in line to get any significant minutes on next year's team

Jones could be a serviceable bench player next year, Amar not so much.

Quote from: goredmen on May 13, 2016, 02:55:51 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Neither one should be in line to get any significant minutes on next year's team

Jones could be a serviceable bench player next year, Amar not so much.

As is, there are significant problems with either one of them playing at all. Chris Mullin came here to restore St.John's to what it what once. He can't even begin to do that if he's forced to use a player that is completely lost on defense.

There are IMO 3 scenarios in which Amar gets significant playing time, or really any playing time:

1. He actually improves enough to warrant them
2. We have ineligible or injured players, and we need bodies
3. The newbies aren't ready or able

I truly hope it's the first. I like the kid.

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

Amar won't regularly contribute that much next season but he will have his moments. I still like him coming off the bench being a spark making 1-2 threes in 9 min. I think he's a good vocal/energy player who's good for team chemistry.

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

Dave can you support this? I'd love to see it relative to the team.

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

Amar won't regularly contribute that much next season but he will have his moments. I still like him coming off the bench being a spark making 1-2 threes in 9 min. I think he's a good vocal/energy player who's good for team chemistry.

We don't need a 6'8 guy who plays on the perimeter, who's not even that good of a shooter and can't bang. Freudenberg will be the 6'9 bench guy with much more skill than Amar yet can also take it to the hoop. This teams needs physical inside play. If Jones stinks, then Amar is a few levels below that. Either way, neither guy was going  to get serious minutes next year.

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:57:34 PM

Quote from: goredmen on May 13, 2016, 02:55:51 PM

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Neither one should be in line to get any significant minutes on next year's team

Jones could be a serviceable bench player next year, Amar not so much.

As is, there are significant problems with either one of them playing at all. Chris Mullin came here to restore St.John's to what it what once. He can't even begin to do that if he's forced to use a player that is completely lost on defense.

There are IMO 3 scenarios in which Amar gets significant playing time, or really any playing time:

1. He actually improves enough to warrant them
2. We have ineligible or injured players, and we need bodies
3. The newbies aren't ready or able

I truly hope it's the first. I like the kid.

It would take divine intervention but sure, I hope so too for the team's sake.

Quote from: boo3 on May 13, 2016, 12:00:35 AM

Mussini would be lost without Amar

He was lost with him.

 I should have clarified, lost, off the court... For what I've been told

Quote from: Johnny23 on May 13, 2016, 02:52:37 PM

If you can't see that Jones would've been a better fit for this team next year over Amar than time to get your eyes checked.

Watching Jones improvement over the last half of this season was somewhat decent to watch even in an otherwise dismal season. He would've been a good, physical presence off the bench for a young team next season. Amar would be better trying out for dancing with the stars.

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

Amar won't regularly contribute that much next season but he will have his moments. I still like him coming off the bench being a spark making 1-2 threes in 9 min. I think he's a good vocal/energy player who's good for team chemistry.

To make 2 threes he would have to shoot at least 6 of them. I don't want him taking 6 shots in 9 mins.
Amar will do a nice thing once a game for the most part and stink the rest of the game. Outside Cuse game -which should be put on his tombstone.
People on these boards see him do one good thing and mistake that for being good. What about the rest of the time when he stunk? If you occasionally do a good thing but mostly stink, guess what you stink.
If he never did a good thing he would have no business getting a scholarship.

Quote from: Foad on May 13, 2016, 12:22:08 PM

Quote from: Poison on May 13, 2016, 11:41:17 AM

I think we've all been guilty of assuming that a poorly performing underclassmen could never turn into a valuable part of the team, but we'd be ignoring a great deal of our own history if didn't acknowledge that seniors usually play well. Even the guys who didn't play well at all up until then.

Tyshawn Edmonson became a player who was eventually scouted by NBA teams. Cedric Jackson actually became an NBA player. David Cain was a total bust until he became one of the top point guards in the BE and nationally, too. Donald Emanuel was every bit as bad as Amar was last year during his sophomore season. That dude would commit fouls instantly, and anywhere.

A few years ago I said that Quincy Robetts should transfer because expected the incoming freshman to be ready from day one to play, and play well. Out of our awesome ten player class, only 2 guys were ready to play, and both Harkless and Harrison were far from a guarantee every time out. Robetts would have really helped that team. He showed only a small glimpse of what he could do against Notre Dame, and basically got worked in just about every other game when we had him running the point. But he got better. Much better.

Exactly this, but even more than this. It's not just players like Cain and Pointer who made quantum leaps their senior years, its players whose natural progression led them to have superior senior years because their cumulative education and experience made them better versions of the themselves and better than younger less experienced players on other teams. Louie made the hall of fame playing upperclassmen pretty much exclusively and even playing upperclassmen over more talented underclassmen. His success is not a coincidence. It's not a coincidence that the only times SJU has made the tournament in recent memory is with boatloads of experience. And it is not only on the court that experience matters - continuity in the program allows underclassmen the opportunity to learn off court skills from upperclassmen that they might otherwise have to learn by experience or trial and error: going to class, using the weight room, staying after practice to shoot more. This isn't Kentucky where we're going to reload every year and we can afford to throw every kid who doesn't produce immediately over the side. 

Good arguments. I hope you guys are right .

By and large, it's appropriate to expect that seniors will have good seasons. The ones who work hard, provided they are well coached, should improve. Let's see what we have with our staff regarding Alibegovic. He doesn't have to become a star, but since they brought him back it should be because they believe he can really help the team win. So, Amar has gotta get better to vindicate them.

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

The entire team's +- was heavily minus. Hence the one and seventeen record.

All the talk about Jones being the better player off the bench giving us 15/20 minutes a game does not take into account what Christian wants.  This is his final year and if he has any hope of playing after college he needs to start and get significant minutes not be a part time, off the bench player.  I am sure he desires to start and if he couldn't get the guarantee here; he was right to leave.  I say good luck CJ--nothing wrong with looking for more. 

Quote from: Dave on May 13, 2016, 03:50:48 PM

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

The entire team's +- was heavily minus. Hence the one and seventeen record.

Yeah, so lets bring as many of those players back as possible, right?

Quote from: Foad on May 13, 2016, 04:30:45 PM

Quote from: Dave on May 13, 2016, 03:50:48 PM

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

The entire team's +- was heavily minus. Hence the one and seventeen record.

Yeah, so lets bring as many of those players back as possible, right?

Jones was 4th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, 4th in assists, 3rd in steals, 2nd in FG percentage, and 3rd in 3 point shooting. He had two double doubles, scored in double figures 13 times and averaged 17 and 8 over his last four. Odd player to scapegoat for a historically bad season. Odd player to say "stinks" considering the shit basketball I watched last year.

I liked Jones. He would have been my choice to bring back

Quote from: goredmen on May 13, 2016, 06:08:13 PM

Quote from: Foad on May 13, 2016, 04:30:45 PM

Quote from: Dave on May 13, 2016, 03:50:48 PM

Jones stinks.

His +/- was heavily -

The entire team's +- was heavily minus. Hence the one and seventeen record.

Yeah, so lets bring as many of those players back as possible, right?

Jones was 4th in scoring, 3rd in rebounding, 4th in assists, 3rd in steals, 2nd in FG percentage, and 3rd in 3 point shooting. He had two double doubles, scored in double figures 13 times and averaged 17 and 8 over his last four. Odd player to scapegoat for a historically bad season. Odd player to say "stinks" considering the shit basketball I watched last year.

4th, 3rd and 3rd on a team that went 1-17. How is that anything but stinks for a junior on a team full of freshmen and terrible seniors? I'm not saying it was his fault for the bad season, but he certainly didn't make things any better

It's not the NBA.  Shouldn't just cut kids because they aren't superstars.  Tough crowd for such a shitty program