Providence Game Thread

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 27, 2017, 03:57:10 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

If you watch some Syracuse games from the 80's or even early 90's, you'll see Syracuse playing lots of man defense.  Boeheim would often mix up his defenses.  But, they certainly played their fair share of man-to-man defense. 

And presumably we'd watch those games on black and white televisions with rabbit ears and get up to turn the channel during commercials.

You Tube is your friend.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:21:48 PM

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Quote

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Quote

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Quote

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

Quote

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Thanks for doing my dirty work.  You saved me a post having to respond to that drivel.

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:21:48 PM

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Quote

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Quote

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Quote

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

Quote

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Thanks for doing my dirty work.  You saved me a post having to respond to that drivel.

Yeah, drivel.

Jay Wright made the final 4 in 2009 while playing the 14th fastest pace in the country. Last year he won a national championship playing the 22nd slowest. But I guess great coaches never change their systems to fit the players

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 04:26:13 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:21:48 PM

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Quote

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Quote

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Quote

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

Quote

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Thanks for doing my dirty work.  You saved me a post having to respond to that drivel.

Yeah, drivel.

Jay Wright made the final 4 in 2009 while playing the 14th fastest pace in the country. Last year he won a national championship playing the 22nd slowest. But I guess great coaches never change their systems to fit the players

Im with goredmen. Coaches would be idiotic not to change up their system to fit their players. But of course they have their preferences and of course they do their best to recruit towards that.

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 03:48:39 PM

You are going to take this the wrong way. Not my intention. Chris mullin and his staff of inexperienced coaches have not proven to be successful coaches.

Can we assume they're trying to succeed?

I believe they are trying . I also believe something has to change. Do you believe we can win playing like this?

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 04:02:15 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 27, 2017, 03:57:10 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

If you watch some Syracuse games from the 80's or even early 90's, you'll see Syracuse playing lots of man defense.  Boeheim would often mix up his defenses.  But, they certainly played their fair share of man-to-man defense. 

And presumably we'd watch those games on black and white televisions with rabbit ears and get up to turn the channel during commercials.

You Tube is your friend.

So is irony, although evidently you're not acquainted with it. The point being that what Jim Boeheim might or might not have done half a dozen times in 1983 is irrelevant.

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 04:01:00 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 03:48:39 PM

You are going to take this the wrong way. Not my intention. Chris mullin and his staff of inexperienced coaches have not proven to be successful coaches.

Can we assume they're trying to succeed?

I believe they are trying . I also believe something has to change. Do you believe we can win playing like this?

Playing like what? By scoring more points than the other guy in an up tempo game? Yes. Scoring fewer points by doing that? No.

Im with goredmen. Coaches would be idiotic not to change up their system to fit their players. But of course they have their preferences and of course they do their best to recruit towards that.

I guess Bobby Knight was an idiot then, and Pete Carill and John Thompson and Lou Carnesecca and John Wooden and Pete Newell and Mike Schrewhrenski and Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino and Dean Smith and Jim Boeheim and Jim Calhoun and Bo Ryan and John Beilein and Don Nelson and Phil Jackson and Paul Westhead. There's a lot of idiots in the hall of fame evidently.

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 04:26:13 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:21:48 PM

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Quote

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Quote

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Quote

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

Quote

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Thanks for doing my dirty work.  You saved me a post having to respond to that drivel.

Yeah, drivel.

Jay Wright made the final 4 in 2009 while playing the 14th fastest pace in the country. Last year he won a national championship playing the 22nd slowest. But I guess great coaches never change their systems to fit the players

If you drive your car more slowly on Tuesday than on Friday does that make it a different car?

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 11:07:16 AM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 10:48:11 AM

Quote from: Poison on January 27, 2017, 10:07:31 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 01:49:22 PM

Quote from: Poison on January 26, 2017, 09:52:06 AM

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on January 26, 2017, 02:47:55 AM

- I find it gratifying to win games at the free throw stripe. LP have been amazing from there (pretty much amazing from everywhere on the court offensively) all year and even Bash who's struggled previously gets into the act at 3 for 3.  90% as a team.

- Tremendous use of all his timeouts in the second half with oodles of time left to successfully tourniquet the bleeding.  Ata boy coach!

- Our defense s*cks.  86 points is ridiculous. We gotta do something.

- 2 BE road wins at the mid-point.  Not too shabby.

- Live by the three.....Live by the three!  48% on the day.  You sure this is a St. John's team?

- My favorite sequence was right before half-time when Lovett fouls Pc on purpose putting them on the line just so he could get the ball back again for the last second shot.  Ponds held up his hands asking for the ball but there was no way Marcus was giving it up then he nails the acrobatic falling down 30 ft. last second chuck for three.  Onions!!!

It is very strange to see a St.John's team that can shoot, but doesn't bother to play defense.

Right?  I am not at all comfortable with this new action packed, exciting style of play.

I wish we would go back to a slow, walk it up, nobody gets to 60 pts. Carnesseca like boring style of play.

You mean back when we routinely made the NCAA tournament?

That style also worked out well when Norm was coaching.

What's your point? This team is 10-12.

My point is that the style of play doesn't matter if you lose. If you want to compare Lou's 25 year career following Lapchick's 25 year career to Mullin following Lavin and Norm go ahead but it's silly. Saint John's fans have been whining about playing up tempo for 50 years and as soon as they see it they start bemoaning the loss of Carmine Calzonetti.

Our guys don't get back on defense. If they couldn't shoot, they wouldn't be hitting threes and we'd know why. So, why don't they get back on d?

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 27, 2017, 04:03:53 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 04:02:15 PM

Quote from: mjdinkins on January 27, 2017, 03:57:10 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 01:05:31 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:02:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 12:55:32 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 12:36:39 PM

Style of play doesn't matter, but shot selection and team defense does. if you want to play faster then the other team it would help to have better athletes. Our offense looked great against Tulane and not so good vs seton hall. Maybe we could slow it down until we get some better players.

Name a successful coach who changes his system based on his personnel. Pro tip: you can't.

is that sarcasm?

No pretty sure he is dead serious.  Coaches generally don't change their system.  You see Boeheim switch to man? D'Antoni run a different offense?  Phil Jackson? The list goes on...

Coach K has actually played zone despite his distaste for it once in a blue moon.  But very minor and fleeting changes.

If you watch some Syracuse games from the 80's or even early 90's, you'll see Syracuse playing lots of man defense.  Boeheim would often mix up his defenses.  But, they certainly played their fair share of man-to-man defense. 

And presumably we'd watch those games on black and white televisions with rabbit ears and get up to turn the channel during commercials.

You Tube is your friend.

So is irony, although evidently you're not acquainted with it. The point being that what Jim Boeheim might or might not have done half a dozen times in 1983 is irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant, and he did what I said many of times throughout the timeframe I mentioned.

Oh, well....  Keep up your shenanigans.

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 04:49:42 PM

Quote from: Tha Kid on January 27, 2017, 04:26:13 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 02:25:11 PM

Quote from: goredmen on January 27, 2017, 01:21:48 PM

This might be the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

You must be new here. I read 12 stupid things a day.

Quote

Of course coaches change their style based on their personnel. What makes great coaches great is that they adjust to their players. It would be insane not to. I don't know how anybody that has watched one game of basketball can not see that.

No. What makes coaches great is that they devise ingenious systems and recruit players to fit them. It is impossible to teach college students a different system on a yearly basis and no one does it. Not to mention that the coaches would have to devise and learn to operate within a new system every year, a new system they'd have to design in the six months between when their recruits get to campus and the season starts.

Quote

Yes it's true that coaches generally recruit players that would fit their desired system, but then have to make changes to play to their players strengths.

Maximizing your players strengths is not remotely similar to changing your system based on their abilities.

Quote

Huggins has been a great coach for a couple decades now but only recently changed to 40 minutes of pressure defense. He didn't do that when he had a 7 man rotation or guys that wouldn't succeed in that style. Now, he will try to recruit players that will fit that style going forward but he won't keep doing it if he doesn't have the horses

I didn't say that coaches never change their systems or tweak their strategies.

Quote

The 14-15 Kentucky team that went undefeated until the final 4 played at a really slow pace. This year's Kentucky team plays at the 10th fastest pace in the country. Coach K has had teams whose main offensive gameplan was to launch 3s and other teams who didn't shoot very many 3s at all.

Screwshrecki has been running the same system since he learned it from Bobby Knight, who learned it from Steve Lavin Pete Newell. How the shots come about is not the same as where the shots come from.

Thanks for doing my dirty work.  You saved me a post having to respond to that drivel.

Yeah, drivel.

Jay Wright made the final 4 in 2009 while playing the 14th fastest pace in the country. Last year he won a national championship playing the 22nd slowest. But I guess great coaches never change their systems to fit the players

If you drive your car more slowly on Tuesday than on Friday does that make it a different car?

So pace of play has nothing to do with a team's style? Weird, how fast a team plays is usually the  first thing discussed when somebody asks what a particular team's style of play is

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 04:59:14 PM

Quote from: Foad on January 27, 2017, 04:01:00 PM

Quote from: TONYD3 on January 27, 2017, 03:48:39 PM

You are going to take this the wrong way. Not my intention. Chris mullin and his staff of inexperienced coaches have not proven to be successful coaches.

Can we assume they're trying to succeed?

I believe they are trying . I also believe something has to change. Do you believe we can win playing like this?

Playing like what? By scoring more points than the other guy in an up tempo game? Yes. Scoring fewer points by doing that? No.

Is that what usually happens? Most of the time we play even for 5/8 minutes. Then we get destroyed for the next 20. Then the other team lets up and the score is not as embrassing as it should be.

Creighton is a very different type of team this year with Watson than they were when McDermott (the son) was the focus of the offense.  Coaches often make adjustments based on their personnel. ( Looie never did).

Creighton is a very different type of team this year with Watson than they were when McDermott (the son) was the focus of the offense.  Coaches often make adjustments based on their personnel. ( Looie never did).

Yeah, Louie only won 500+ games in his career, hopefully you were as successful, making all your personal adjustments.

Quote from: simplyred on January 27, 2017, 06:09:11 PM

Creighton is a very different type of team this year with Watson than they were when McDermott (the son) was the focus of the offense.  Coaches often make adjustments based on their personnel. ( Looie never did).

Yeah, Louie only won 500+ games in his career, hopefully you were as successful, making all your personal adjustments.

Sounds like a personal attack, but I'll move on.  Looie was very successful.  Is what I said incorrect?

Syracuse's problem isn't w leaving the Big East, they went to the Final Four last spring.
Their issue, and one we can relate to, is with their HoF coachand face of the University retiring.

Pitt has suffered the most from leaving the BE imo.   They had a great thing going in the old big East under Dixon.   

Yep. Unlike Syracuse, the BE made Pitt. Getting what they deserved

Quote from: Amaseinyourface2 on January 27, 2017, 04:51:09 PM

Im with goredmen. Coaches would be idiotic not to change up their system to fit their players. But of course they have their preferences and of course they do their best to recruit towards that.

I guess Bobby Knight was an idiot then, and Pete Carill and John Thompson and Lou Carnesecca and John Wooden and Pete Newell and Mike Schrewhrenski and Tom Izzo and Rick Pitino and Dean Smith and Jim Boeheim and Jim Calhoun and Bo Ryan and John Beilein and Don Nelson and Phil Jackson and Paul Westhead. There's a lot of idiots in the hall of fame evidently.

What does system mean to you? If its not style of play, you know, as in tempo, ball pressure, man to man vs zone, etc. then what is it?

Jeez, with the contentiousness on this thread you would think we lost our last game. 

Mullin v Vooley squabble confirmed

http://www.providencejournal.com/sports/20170127/road-only-getting-tougher-for-friars

"As both teams were leaving the court and heading to their locker rooms, coaches Ed Cooley and Chris Mullin got into a quick, but heated, verbal exchange. For PC's Cooley, it was simply a continuation of an exasperating night."