Hall Under Federal Investigation

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

I think the biggest thing is the collective punishment. I don't think the NCAA is going to handle this on a case by case basis. I doubt they dole out any punishments before the tournament and its likely that more stories are going to come out over the next few weeks and months and even after all that, we still might not have even scratched the surface.

This might be biased or just how I would handle things, but I personally see them allowing players to receive some form of compensation (Olympic model is the best for the NCAA to use) which would settle the public down so they can lighten the punishments. Bring the hammer down on like Sean Miller and Bruce Pearl but the other schools lose some scholarships, vacate wins (dumbest form of punishment ever), and maybe a few get a postseason ban for awhile.

It wouldn't make sense for the NCAA to handle this on a case by case basis without the knowledge of more reports coming out against a certain school. For instance, let's just say they vacated some SHU wins and took some scholarships away just to send a message of how they are going to handle this. SHU is an expendable school so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But what happens then if it turns out that they committed worse infractions with more players. The best thing for the NCAA to do is wait it out and around May-July, figure out a collective punishment.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Morton tells Whitehead that if he chooses SH Willard will hire Morton as assistant coach and moreover that both Morton and Whitehead get cash payments from the sneaker guy. Whitehead signs, Morton's hired and as a FR Whitehead receives a 25K "loan" and TM gets a 10K "loan." You honestly think that's going to be hard to hang on SH?

Willard's doing what his mentor taught him to do. Deny, deny, deny.

Here's the problem for the NCAA. If they dole out crazy harsh punishments pretty much across the board, they will be losing A LOT of money and fans. If they don't dole out harsh enough punishments and just vacate some wins and maybe take scholly's away from a handful of teams, what reason do fans of teams that are expendable (like a Seton Hall, an Illinois, a Minnesota, even us) to keep watching the sport? It's a catch-22. If we cheat and get caught, we are expendable enough to receive a crippling punishment but if we don't cheat or cheat just enough to not get caught, we likely won't ever be competitive especially since this will only push the bleu bloods further.

Like if Duke, UNC, Ohio State, and all the other nationally prominent schools get slaps on the wrists now, they aren't going to stop doing what they are doing. This is the ultimate, it will likely never get bigger than this. And if they walk away with slaps on the wrists, nothing is stopping them from continuing to do it and not even being ashamed of it because they'd know the NCAA can't risk giving them any severe punishments. So if fans of schools like the ones I mentioned above realize there's no sense sinking money into a team that will likely never be truly competitive, they are also going to lose a lot of money.

I'm just genuinely curious to all the people who just seem to hate Mullin as a HC. Clearly you understand that he's not getting fired after this year. But it seems like if you were in charge, you would fire him. So whether it's this year or next year, what is the plan after that? What's the realistic (not your fantasy) plan after that?

For example, I think Steve Masiello from Manhattan would be worth a risk but that's not really generating any buzz. Personally, I'd love it if we brought him in as an assistant coach to be an X's and O's guy but also have recruiting in's with some solid relationships with coaches who can produce 3 and 4 *'s.

I doubt anyone actually "hates" Mullin.  They may dislike or "hate" his way of coaching, but that's probably about it.  Man!  I think all or most know he's not getting fired.  But, that doesn't mean concernment of his coaching can't be discussed.   

I doubt anyone here wants Steve Masiello.  Assistant coach or not.  I think we could do better on that particular front.

That to me is where we've failed the most. We've gotten it into our heads that we can compete for the high 4 *'s and 5 *'s when we need to be doing what Jay Wright did at Villanova. His highest recruit his first year was Curtis Sumpter who was ranked 47th followed by Will Sheridan ranked 99th then Kyle Lowry was his first big score but he was from PA. The next top 100 guys he got was two years later with Antonio Pena and Scottie Reynolds ranked 75th and 76th. I won't go any further but you get my point.

Why we can't compete for high 4-star kids?  We've pretty much always got our share of those type of kids outside of the Norm Roberts years.  You're also wrong when it comes to Jay Wright and his highest rated recruit during his first recruiting class at 'Nova.  Jason Fraser (#5 per RSCI) and Alan Ray (#39) was rated higher than Curtis Sumpter (#42).

You're right, in regards to his next top 100 guys came two years after Kyle Lowry.  But, he had already shown his chops on the recruiting trail with his first two or three classes.  He was also participating in postseason tournaments (3 NIT bids and 3 NCAA bids) throughout that particular cycle.

If Simon adds a reliable jump shot, he is going to be lethal. I like what I see from Diakite and Keita and we're still not totally out on Brown. Owens has also been a really nice addition since he's gotten here and he's gotten better. Yakwe is the only player we've had who has really regressed and yes this roster was constructed poorly but a lot of that can be attributed to Lovett.

I'd love for Simon to add a reliable jump shot.  But, you might be better off finding Tupac while you're at it.  He can hit it every now and again when he has a wide open look and clearly set.  Too often, he'll pass it up. 

When have you seen Diakite and Keita?  Serious question.  I'd like to know.  I seriously doubt we land Brown.  Some of y'all might be blaming LoVett four years from now, in order to exonerate Mullin.  LOL 

I really feel like the staff thought Lovett was going to leave and they would have had Ponds, Ellison, and Simon and maybe Mussini (I think he was going pro no matter what). Once Lovett came back, it led to Ellison transferring and then the whole Lovett situation happened and we got screwed. I can't completely put that on the staff.

Ha!  Are you some elaborate troll?  LOL  I'll give you one thing....  You're entertaining.  The staff hardly recruited when it was well-known we needed players (particularly, a big and another ball handler) going into this season.

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

Willard has to realize by now that he's done at Hall in less than 6 weeks. Tiny isn't going to protect him.

Sidenote- How is Tiny still coaching during the PSAL playoffs? Innocent until proven guilty but I mean cmon, he's coaching minors while underneath a Federal investigation.

Quote from: goredmen on February 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

I suppose, but I'm not sure I see prominent head coaches going to jail over this. There were arrests of sneaker guys and a couple assistants back in October but nothing since. They supposedly have Sean Miller on wiretap discussing a $100K payment for one of his players but he hasn't been arrested. I think they are after the sneaker and agent guys more than the coaches but who the hell knows.

I guess the point is I wouldn't be surprised if nothing huge comes of this or if 50 coaches get fired

Sidenote- How is Tiny still coaching during the PSAL playoffs? Innocent until proven guilty but I mean cmon, he's coaching minors while underneath a Federal investigation.

Because the PSAL people have known this about Tiny for over a decade and are wondering what took the FBI so long to catch him. And he's probably not one of the 5 worst guys in the PSAL when it comes to this

Quote from: goredmen on February 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

Totally agree that someone is going to start singing.

Was told over the weekend that the FBI was actually pissed off that not a single person/coach came forward when they  made it clear they had the evidence and told people to do so in the Fall when this first broke. I would seriously watch for them to make arrests on Selection Sunday.

Just curious how the FBI is going to be able to tie the Head Coach (of any of the programs named) to the possible wire fraud/criminal activity if the assistants or players acted on their own or thru an outside party. Even if Morton says Willard knew, it will be become my word against his situation unless they have people on tape like Sean Miller.

Quote from: johnniesfilmmaker on February 26, 2018, 11:04:57 AM

I'm just genuinely curious to all the people who just seem to hate Mullin as a HC. Clearly you understand that he's not getting fired after this year. But it seems like if you were in charge, you would fire him. So whether it's this year or next year, what is the plan after that? What's the realistic (not your fantasy) plan after that?

For example, I think Steve Masiello from Manhattan would be worth a risk but that's not really generating any buzz. Personally, I'd love it if we brought him in as an assistant coach to be an X's and O's guy but also have recruiting in's with some solid relationships with coaches who can produce 3 and 4 *'s.

I doubt anyone actually "hates" Mullin.  They may dislike or "hate" his way of coaching, but that's probably about it.  Man!  I think all or most know he's not getting fired.  But, that doesn't mean concernment of his coaching can't be discussed.   

I doubt anyone here wants Steve Masiello.  Assistant coach or not.  I think we could do better on that particular front.

Quote

That to me is where we've failed the most. We've gotten it into our heads that we can compete for the high 4 *'s and 5 *'s when we need to be doing what Jay Wright did at Villanova. His highest recruit his first year was Curtis Sumpter who was ranked 47th followed by Will Sheridan ranked 99th then Kyle Lowry was his first big score but he was from PA. The next top 100 guys he got was two years later with Antonio Pena and Scottie Reynolds ranked 75th and 76th. I won't go any further but you get my point.

Why we can't compete for high 4-star kids?  We've pretty much always got our share of those type of kids outside of the Norm Roberts years.  You're also wrong when it comes to Jay Wright and his highest rated recruit during his first recruiting class at 'Nova.  Jason Fraser (#5 per RSCI) and Alan Ray (#39) was rated higher than Curtis Sumpter (#42).

You're right, in regards to his next top 100 guys came two years after Kyle Lowry.  But, he had already shown his chops on the recruiting trail with his first two or three classes.  He was also participating in postseason tournaments (3 NIT bids and 3 NCAA bids) throughout that particular cycle.

Quote

If Simon adds a reliable jump shot, he is going to be lethal. I like what I see from Diakite and Keita and we're still not totally out on Brown. Owens has also been a really nice addition since he's gotten here and he's gotten better. Yakwe is the only player we've had who has really regressed and yes this roster was constructed poorly but a lot of that can be attributed to Lovett.

I'd love for Simon to add a reliable jump shot.  But, you might be better off finding Tupac while you're at it.  He can hit it every now and again when he has a wide open look and clearly set.  Too often, he'll pass it up. 

When have you seen Diakite and Keita?  Serious question.  I'd like to know.  I seriously doubt we land Brown.  Some of y'all might be blaming LoVett four years from now, in order to exonerate Mullin.  LOL 

Quote

I really feel like the staff thought Lovett was going to leave and they would have had Ponds, Ellison, and Simon and maybe Mussini (I think he was going pro no matter what). Once Lovett came back, it led to Ellison transferring and then the whole Lovett situation happened and we got screwed. I can't completely put that on the staff.

Ha!  Are you some elaborate troll?  LOL  I'll give you one thing....  You're entertaining.  The staff hardly recruited when it was well-known we needed players (particularly, a big and another ball handler) going into this season.

Can we please take the Mullin discussion to another thread or have the Moderators move this stuff to a new one...

Quote from: carmineabbatiello on February 26, 2018, 12:43:45 AM

Quote from: goredmen on February 25, 2018, 12:56:29 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 25, 2018, 12:31:35 PM

Quote from: goredmen on February 25, 2018, 12:23:31 PM

Quote from: Poison on February 25, 2018, 12:10:23 PM

Quote from: ras on February 25, 2018, 11:35:32 AM

Quote from: Poison on February 25, 2018, 11:14:56 AM

Quote from: newsman13 on February 25, 2018, 10:53:28 AM

I don't understand all the women who feel compelled to bash former coaches like Lavin and/or Jarvis.  Let it go.  You're like a bunch of supposedly wronged housewives.

+1

Especially Lavin. We achieved nothing in 6 years with Norm Roberts and Lavin made us relevant again. How people can’t at least appreciate him for that is simply wrong.

Jarvis is a great example of how the media can paint a person out to be horrible. If Ron Artest is on vs Ohio State he’s as good of a coach as Lou Carnesecca. But clearly not as warm and inviting a person.

In the beginning of the Lavin tenure, I thought he was the greatest.  number 3 recruiting class, great year 1. But, then I lost faith in him. But have to give him credit, his tenure was he best we had in 20 years. That is not to say Mullin won’t turn things around, but that remains to be seen. Re, Jarvis he alienated a lot of NY HS coaches, which affected recruiting negatively.

Jarvis alienated a lot of local high school coaches, but Norm and Mullin haven’t. Together, Norm and Mullin have landed 2 top 100 city players in 10 recruiting classes. The plan to keep the local talent home is what Lavin didn’t subscribe to. Instead he brought top talent to NYC.

This year the players that play are from Brooklyn, Bronx, California, Kansas City, Kansas City, and Maryland.

Next year the 4 main guys being added are from  Delaware, Philly, New Orleans, and Florida.

So yes, this staff tries to recruit NYC because there are good players here and it's easier to recruit locally. It would be flat out stupid not to recruit the local talent no matter what school you are. But they certainly aren't limiting themselves to just the local area

This is about recruiting top talent out of state. Next year, we are adding zero top 100 recruits from outside of NY, inside of NY, Europe or anywhere. This staff’s recruiting is on par with what Norm Roberts brought here.

That can't be too bad considering the most success Lavin had here was with Norm's players

Lavin matched the success he had here with Norm's players in his fifth season with his own players.

Agree. Lavin did a great job coaching up the number 3 recruiting class in the country to the same output as Norm’s 2 and 3 star guys

Are you really agreeing with me or is this sarcasm?

Is taking a team to the Ncaa tournament 'not matching the success' of taking' a different team to the Ncaa tournament because of the number of stars, which I don't follow, arbitrarily assigned to
various high school recruits?

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Morton tells Whitehead that if he chooses SH Willard will hire Morton as assistant coach and moreover that both Morton and Whitehead get cash payments from the sneaker guy. Whitehead signs, Morton's hired and as a FR Whitehead receives a 25K "loan" and TM gets a 10K "loan." You honestly think that's going to be hard to hang on SH?

Willard's doing what his mentor taught him to do. Deny, deny, deny.

If they have proof, they should be nailed...

But if that scenario is slightly different it could be tough to really make it stick to any head coach...   

As I said, not sticking up for Willard or SHU here, the same scene can be played over & over with the other schools mentioned too..   will be interesting to see how this all plays out in front of the tournament.

Quote from: Foad on February 26, 2018, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: goredmen on February 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

Totally agree that someone is going to start singing.

Was told over the weekend that the FBI was actually pissed off that not a single person/coach came forward when they  made it clear they had the evidence and told people to do so in the Fall when this first broke. I would seriously watch for them to make arrests on Selection Sunday.

Just curious how the FBI is going to be able to tie the Head Coach (of any of the programs named) to the possible wire fraud/criminal activity if the assistants or players acted on their own or thru an outside party. Even if Morton says Willard knew, it will be become my word against his situation unless they have people on tape like Sean Miller.

Miller is a dope and clearly never watched an episode of the wire.

There are technicalities on establishing proof PMG, no doubt, but let's be real.  When Willard brought on Tiny (and Antigua) he knew exactly who he was getting into bed with.  This isn't a situation where an agent was paying a player's family on the side and perhaps the HC actually wasn't aware.  You bring in a Tiny or Antigua and you ask for everything that comes with it.  Whether he was willfully ignorant or simply lies about his knowledge I don't see how this doesn't play out badly particularly since it will get attention in the local papers given the Whitehead connect.

Btw, I'm fully aware that all programs bend the rules to some extent but there are obviously degrees.

Quote from: Foad on February 26, 2018, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: goredmen on February 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

Totally agree that someone is going to start singing.

Was told over the weekend that the FBI was actually pissed off that not a single person/coach came forward when they  made it clear they had the evidence and told people to do so in the Fall when this first broke. I would seriously watch for them to make arrests on Selection Sunday.

Just curious how the FBI is going to be able to tie the Head Coach (of any of the programs named) to the possible wire fraud/criminal activity if the assistants or players acted on their own or thru an outside party. Even if Morton says Willard knew, it will be become my word against his situation unless they have people on tape like Sean Miller.

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Hiring tiny to be an assistant coach is a slimy move,  but not illegal/ against NCAA rules.  Having an agent pay both whitehead and tiny is illegal/ against NCAA rules.

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 01:07:32 PM

Quote from: Foad on February 26, 2018, 12:20:36 PM

Quote from: goredmen on February 26, 2018, 11:59:44 AM

Quote from: pmg911 on February 26, 2018, 11:45:02 AM

Back to Seton Hall...

The school has come out very aggressive in defending itself and even hired a law firm. This could just be posturing but they don't seem to be shying away from anything.

While some (myself included) might not have liked the way they way they landed the kids in the Whitehead/Delgado recruiting class, it was not illegal or against NCAA Rules. I think SHU as just the only school willing to hire Tiny at the time.

It will be very interesting how accountable the NCAA holds the school if Tiny Morton & Whitehead cuts deals with Andy Miller away from SHU. I am not defending SHU or Willard but unless they can prove a connection between the school and the deals ASM cut, it will be tough to drop the hammer on them,

Yeah they thing will be to see how aggressive the NCAA is with punishing schools and head coaches for the behavior of their assistants. A few assistant were arrested but the head coaches or programs have faced no penalties yet. If schools are going down for that then SHU will be one of them. It doesn't matter when Tiny/Whitehead cut the deals, the fact that Tiny was associated with SHU around that time could be very problematic for them.

That being said, the NCAA is one of the most crooked organizations in the world and I wouldn't be surprised either way how this plays out with programs across the country. The NCAA's number 1 priority is self-preservation and dropping the hammer on their biggest moneymakers will conflict with that priority. Slaps on the wrist in the form of probation + empty words of "change going forward" as the only thing the NCAA will do here is certainly on the table.

The problem for these schools isn't the NCAA. The problem is the FBI and the IRS. People will be going to prison. Interstate mail and wire fraud, conspiracy, misprision of felony, various tax violations, money laundering, maybe some extortion, there's a long list of chargeable offenses. I'd hate for Willard to be wishful thinking that Tiny isn't going to fold under questioning.

Totally agree that someone is going to start singing.

Was told over the weekend that the FBI was actually pissed off that not a single person/coach came forward when they  made it clear they had the evidence and told people to do so in the Fall when this first broke. I would seriously watch for them to make arrests on Selection Sunday.

Just curious how the FBI is going to be able to tie the Head Coach (of any of the programs named) to the possible wire fraud/criminal activity if the assistants or players acted on their own or thru an outside party. Even if Morton says Willard knew, it will be become my word against his situation unless they have people on tape like Sean Miller.

Miller is a dope and clearly never watched an episode of the wire.

He's a nice person. He needs to put two people in between himself and the agent to maintain plausible deniability. He should be fired for his stupidity alone.

He's a nice person. He needs to put two people in between himself and the agent to maintain plausible deniability. He should be fired for his stupidity alone.

Sadly, this is 100% correct and is how the coaches that cheat get away with it and why it is ultimately hard to make it stick to them...  some guys have made an art of it, Miller obviously not one of them.

Quote from: Marillac on February 27, 2018, 06:41:16 PM

He's a nice person. He needs to put two people in between himself and the agent to maintain plausible deniability. He should be fired for his stupidity alone.

Sadly, this is 100% correct and is how the coaches that cheat get away with it and why it is ultimately hard to make it stick to them...  some guys have made an art of it, Miller obviously not one of them.

HBO. Wire , Sopranos. Game plan is right there.

Quote from: Marillac on February 27, 2018, 06:41:16 PM

He's a nice person. He needs to put two people in between himself and the agent to maintain plausible deniability. He should be fired for his stupidity alone.

Sadly, this is 100% correct and is how the coaches that cheat get away with it and why it is ultimately hard to make it stick to them...  some guys have made an art of it, Miller obviously not one of them.

Some credible sources out there claiming that the ESPN report about the wiretap story on Miller isn't what people think it is. Supposedly what he says in those phone calls could even exonerate him. But he hasn't been around the team at all since this whole thing dropped since last week so who knows. I've always had my suspicions about him and Arizona well before all this FBI stuff went down.